Do Not Watch This Video...

reply to post by Conspiriology


All that typing just to use ad hominem insults, and NO DATA!

By the way, I had to read Nickel and Dimed in a undergraduate class, we blew it apart. :down:

I still await your data. Just because you quote from books that use sweeping generalizations (a logical fallacy in and of itself) does not change reality. Using a begging the question fallacy does not equal data.

You have made outragoues claims, so many that I lost count because you were also using every sentence to insult me. You should know such excessive insulting only shows you have no evidence to back up your claim. It is up to you to prove these claims, using a begging the question fallacy does not prove them. Until you prove them, you have no case. The burden of proof is on you. Until that I point, I will keep talking about reality: with only some exceptions, people are poor because they buy things they cannot afford, or they choose not to improve their situation. This is untrue for those impacted by an act of god like a medical disaster or something like it - but for everyone else:

P E R S O N A L
R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y.

[edit on 15-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

All that typing just to use ad hominem insults, and NO DATA!

You serious?? pffft If I posted excerpts of Greenspans book, apologising for the mess he is responsible for as stated recently on Charlie Rose I don't think I could make it to the bathroom quick enough after hearing you "Blow his book apart" having to puke at the vulgar conceit

Ad hom?? hehe I liked you better when you said stupid people, at least it wasn't so phoney and pretentious

By the way, I had to read Nickel and Dimed in a undergraduate class, we blew it apart. :down:

You?? Blew that books research apart?? You exposed her ad homs and her shameful involvement in CT's Whooooa

You see that everyne LIGHT BLEW THIS AWARD WINNING AUTHOR APART ! YOU WERE RIGHT AND SHE WAS WRONG,,

Isn't that unusual

reply to post by Conspiriology


And even more ad hominem insults. Even more evidence you have no proof to back up anything you say.

Nickel and Dimed is not research, if that is not obvious to you I don't know what to tell you. The writer specifically put herself under conditions that do not represent the majority of people making minimum wage, and did not control for external variables. It is not research, simply an interesting read. If you want something that is actually researched, I refer you to any number of peer reviewed academic articles about minimum wage that conclude if the objective is to pay people more the minimum wage, the minimum only artificially holds wages down. I doubt you'd be interested in something that goes against your ideology like that, but I can provide cites if you'd like.

Using an out of context quote from Greenspan is amusing, and it is an appeal to authority logical fallacy.

We still await your evidence on this. Perhaps some statistics that prove your point? Oh wait, we've already been there, and all it does is show that there is no evidence for your viewpoint.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


No, we are awaiting your evidence. We have provided plenty.


bbl



[edit on 12/15/0707 by jackinthebox]

All that typing just to use ad hominem insults, and NO DATA!

By the way, I had to read Nickel and Dimed in a undergraduate class, we blew it apart. :down:

Is THAT what they told you! ha ha You make patent the axiom about smart people and "educated idiots" nevertheless it is always easy to manufacture academic acomplishments and alleged achievments disaparging others established journalistic awards.

It is something much more impressive showing me anyone that would believe it let alone want to .

I still await your data.

Really?? Hope you are holding your breath.

having established yourself as the messhia and the absolute chosen one to lead us out of our poverty with your staggering intellect I don't see how all the justices in the supreme court could show you proof without your selective blindness compelling you to say "wheres your proof" Problem is,, there like here YOU AIN"T THE JUDGE OF THAT GIVEN EXPERIENCE OR RESEARCH BEING EXHIBIT A. You are just the convicted whining as he is taken away found guilty ,, "BUT I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!!"

It's called contempt without remorse and just as you have PROVEN better then all the proof anyone has tried to offer YOU prove that compared to the experts from the book, Greenspan and all those stupid people who haven't the fiscal fitness to be worthy of your celestial wisdom,, I think I speak for them when I say, You ain't a pimple on their intellectual butt cheeck. If not I sure could get them to consider saying it,, just by humbling them as they bask in the presence of the one that BLOWS THEIR BOOKS AWAY.

Pffft

P E R S O N A L
R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y.

Wow Now THATS IMPRESSIVE !! WHO WOULD HAVE EVEN THOUHT !! Did you figure that out all by your witto self or did someone else ,,mmm maybe einstein come up with that?

Here this is something you taught me,,

Light,, you are wrong your definition of proof is wrong and so is the suggestion that anyone can insult you. I don't take compliments that come from fools let alone insults but people I respect are peoples whose opinions matter to me. You haven't given the slightest measure of respect so insulting you whether one feels entitled to by your arrogance and willful denial of facts or not I assume you think we are just as wrong about that too.

So quit whining about ad homs it's soooo tired besides,,, you got it comin. See I ask what is the provocation for these alleged insults?? or DO YOU THINK ALL THOSE I HAVE SEEN IN THIS FORUM DO THAT WITH YOU FOR NO REASON?? From your same broken record script you give for anyone that disagree,, they dish it as you did but somehow I get the feeling thay don't do it because they are stupid or lack proof,,


They do it,, to you anyway because they like it and you don't just ask for it,, you downright EARN IT.



Wrap your little mind around that poindexter

- Love Con






[edit on 15-12-2007 by Conspiriology]

[edit on 15-12-2007 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by jackinthebox


I'm sorry, but you need to review burden of proof. You have offered outrageous claims, and the "evidence" of your claim - of which you have provided ALMOST nothing - has been debunked.

By the way, I wasn't going to say this, but for the record Conspiriology, it is very obvious you are using a thesaurus to try to elevate your writing, because your using what you perceive as "big words" in completely the wrong context. It is very obvious, you should know that. Also, using a thesaurus to make your vocabulary larger without using proper grammar makes the absurdity even worse.

This has long devolved past the point of being comical. All you and your "companions" are doing is insulting me and using logical fallacies. I will let you think you are right, and I am going to ignore this thread from this point forward. I do not have the need to continually assert that I am correct, the evidence speaks for itself.

So go ahead, think/post that you've "won"! Anyone reading this thread will know the truth:

It all comes down to personal responsibility. For the most part, people in debt buy things they cant afford. There is no government conspiracy, the statistics prove it.

I appreciate all of the people in this thread that have provided excellent examples for future undergraduate students about how people use logical fallacies and lie with statistics. You've made my job so much easier, all I really need to do is print out the thread - you have shown in detail how people with no evidence use deception.

Rejoice, ignorant people! For now you can have your own little orgy of ignorance and lies that fits your own preconceived notions of your world for which you have no evidence - and no one will demand that you actually present evidence or reason. Enjoy! I'm glad now you will now know no matter how much you believe your own lies, I have shown you that in the end YOU are responsible for your finances, not some government conspiracy. You can ignore reality all you want, it does not change reality.

And with that, I leave you to your little fantasy world. I can deal no more with the stupidity. Ignored.

You have added Conspiriology to your Ignore List. Refresh the current page to remove their posts from the thread.
You have added jackinthebox to your Ignore List. Refresh the current page to remove their posts from the thread.

[edit on 15-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

By the way, I wasn't going to say this, but for the record Conspiriology, it is very obvious you are using a thesaurus to try to elevate your writing, because your

I love it when people offer a disclaimer that they were not going to say something then say it anyway. No light I am not using a thesaurus and albiet true I have a passion for things I have no apptitude for that is my own private hell but I can live with it. Regarding your own monosyllabic diatribe,, alow me the exquiste honor of having you show me my error in all you have found fault with oh faultless one.

Please include context too I would love to hear what I really mean.

Love Con

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by LightinDarkness

 

No, we are awaiting your evidence. We have provided plenty.

Pretty much... I have seen you make a tremendous case for your stance only to see Light hee and haw at you in return demanding you to back up statements ALREADY linked to your research.

I believe this has become a battle of pride on his part. We are able to accept the fact that he thinks there's nothing wrong with the economy. I have no idea why he is incapable of allowing us to meet our own conclusions.

Enough Already!

The personal attacks stop Now .


Stick to the topic....Please.

(Most of you are warn-worthy already, and I think you know it, or at least you should.)

Dear Mr Bank Manager Man.

Forgive Our friend for his Outragious Claim! Cause everyone knows that Banks Only lend what they have on deposit and that Every single thing they do is ABOVE BOARD and in it's customers own interest ! After all the FED RESERVE is like GOD and is looked upon with much the same WONDER & AWE !!! Everyone who's anyone knows the FED is all for America and what Lady Liberty stands For ! In fact I even purchased some Ocean front property from a Retired Bank Manager who worked at the FED who told Me it was the most Beautiful Ocean front Property In all of Kansas...... .....

Look,, light, I assume you are single? I am not one to argue that managing personal finances takes discipline and much of the statistical data you give I have no argument with. It's where you say it isn't a conspiracy that I have a "small" problem. I am not sure what you think a conspiracy is but when I see a tax code favoring the rich, and wage earnings triple for the top 1% while wage earnings for middle class and down actually dropped, I take that personal because it effects me personally. I think it's an outrage that while our congress has been out of session almost as long as when they were called "do nothing" congress, we see them getting nothing done taking more time off but that didn't stop them from voting themselves a raise.

The Government doesn't owe me anything? It owes me an explanation why predatory credit card companies get more regulation off their backs and lenders whose job it is to make sound loans to people buying houses, simply don't do us or the economy any favors with the feds sub prime debacle.

I see us as vogue on the outside and vague on the inside when it comes to poverty we are less resilient and on emergency these days can bankrupt a family easily. it has fiduciary responsibility to its taxpayers to be fiscally fit and like us,, spending 2.8 Billion a day on Iraq the President borrowing more money from other country's then the last five presidents combined puts our nation in debt. Usually when that happens,,the IRS starts making statements about coming down hard on "tax avoiders" (the new tax evasion). They put pressure on to get our money and pay the debt down.

We have the highest prison population 1 in 32 people is in jail by choice you say? Perhaps those not able to afford a private attorney who are invariably offered a "deal" or more time if they don't take the deal.

Many of them shouldn't be there at all. Then you have those who just don't care any more,, they see the American Dream is dead, they have an anger like many of us who feel the Government talks about the rule of law but when one of their own get caught,, the sentence gets commuted.

I have seen nothing but a billion dollar boys club talking tough on crime while he is above the law, talking about tax breaks but not for me?

We work our asses off, come home to kids we are crazy about and have to hear Dad Dad Jimmy has a Wii how come we don't. Can I call you to explain all the psychology of consumerism and how material deprivation might make me Responsible and living within my means but really,, my wages aren't going up and too many weeks of $3.00 gas is %60 percent of my nut paying energy costs going to work just to make enough money to go further in debt.

I hear about our Vice President and his Haliburton bonanza and see how that windfall opportunity was paid for by Americans who won't get a dime of it. I mentioned Bank one Ball Park where our state added a tax to buy a stadium that is a private business. Did we vote for that tax and will we get any ROI? NOPE I just see Rich guys owning it Banks etc. butt the kicker is that for me to take my kid to a game is a luxury I can't afford.

You got kids with asthma or any chronic health problem you better add another part time job to your day. Now I only have 24 hours in a day and as much as I agree about education,, that too is out where I would have to do without. Now if this country thinks it can support itself and it's conquests abroad on the backs of a nation of ditch diggers,, then so be it.

by that time,, if they want to blame me and my occasional indulgence to take my family to chucky cheese,, screw em. I get disgusted walking on eggshells having to get kicked while were perpetually put down by a RICH ruling class who takes care of his own and spends my money on his own private army's. If it isn't a conspiracy light,, then why the hell does it feel like its me against the world.

You have to understand light,, that people are sophisticated instruments everyone boils at different degrees but me,, they ask me for another dime the same day I see headlines of a billion in military hardware LOST,,
Ill just say,, " Hey look Mr President,, all I got is a pot to piss in.

You know what he'll say??

"Well,, gimme that."

Here this is pretty accurate illustration video how family can explain to someone like you that it is impossible to be responsible sometimes you just can't be holier then thou when it's easier to go postal. You may see statistics as your only indicator and proof but I take social ills, trends, as indicators too. Right now this is one pissed off country lead by a liar a hypocrite born with a silver spoon in his mouth that we are so sick of paying for his mistakes,, that if anyone wants to add conspiracy A - Z I just can't put anything past the moron.

just how it is by the census and several more


www.nccbuscc.org...

reply to post by Conspiriology



Thank you very much for the link. Simple and to the point. I know facts when I see them, truth when hear it, and the simple arithmetic speaks for itself.

Thank you to "LightinDarkness" for inciting me to provide proof that may have otherwise gone unnoticed. I stand by my facts as presented.

It seems quite clear to me that there is indeed an active campaing of disinformation working to undermine the truth with insidious false claims and distraction, to the detriment of the American citizenry. I believe this thread has facilitated a greater understanding of how this conspiracy keeps the people divided and conquered.

reply to post by Conspiriology

I hear about our Vice President and his Haliburton bonanza and see how that windfall opportunity was paid for by Americans who won't get a dime of it.

I was once told by a recruiter that "you don't have to pay for anything while you're in the Army." My grandfather certainly didn't have to pay for his meals when he invaded Europe at Omaha Beach and marched to the Hurtgen Forest where he was taken out of the war on a stretcher. But my brother had to pay for every one of his meals during both of his tours in Mesopotamia. So if American taxpayers are paying Halliburton to feed the troops, and the troops have to buy their meals from Halliburton, I wonder if there might be a conspiracy happening.

Is this merely a bungling bureacracy, or are the facts being deliberately made irrelevant through the conspiracy of "like-minded" individuals? The conspiracies, more specifically the NWO architects, are so omnipotent that nothing is done about what is publicly reported. Imagine what they are actually doing in secret.

Click here to see a news report, coincidentally enough from 9/10/2001.

I found this link on the thread FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

Lightindarkness I have news for you banks do lend money they dont have all the time. Investors buy the loans in the form of secure bonds. Why do you think that everyone is making a big deal about this "government bailout" on the freezing interest rates for the people whos neg am loans are going to reset. The investors that buy these loans from the banks (Goldman Sachs made a killing selling these while everyone else was buying) will have to eat that. But its better to have some money than no money at all is the mentality. Im a full time investor that is what I do and let me tell you something in 10 years only the top 3% has seen a major increase in wages while everyone else has seen small to no growth at all in there wages (inflation adjusted of course) and everything food, energy, housing is all rising. The economy is not doing well the only thing that is keeping us going is employment right now and once people stop spending you will start to see the layoffs. At the point depression here we come.

reply to post by mybigunit


Thanks for your post, you know I am assuming that light is very young. Many of the things he said also indicate the indealism of youth and the naiveté of its inexperience. I often see that in posts where for example he used the phrase "Being Responsible" almost as if he thought we would be shocked by the impact of its sheer common sense while ignoring just how much he underestimates us and common sense is not something he has a monopoly on. In a lot of ways he reminds me of the way I used to be sticking to logical and statistical data. Like Jack said about the human elements of greed and that cooked books by corps like enron crunched numbers by corrupt actuarial study etc. are all too common.

You know everyone once in a while I'll read a post and ,, call it crazy call it whatever but I can feel the persons suffering or animosity. I had the feeling reading Jacks post which was why I posted when wouldn't have ordinarily. I don't know if that happens to anyone else.

We are all the sum total of the choices we make, some good some bad.

While I agree that sometimes those choices make us our own compromise I think what Light hasn't learned or fails to understand is that he confuses choices.

Life will teach him that sometimes it's a matter of options and not choices.

For many of us getting by today when your options are slim and none,,

bad choices are all anyone

can make


- Con

reply to post by Conspiriology

He might be a kid I dont know this person from a hole in the wall but for this person to tell another to get a 3rd or 4th job and kind of dog on that person for his or her financial situation is just wrong...especially when people dont know the facts. I made a post under disinformation about where our economy is going and why. I recommend anyone check it out if anyone wants to make fun of another person for being prepared for the worst.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


you dont listen.......i know it was a mistake as many many people do and after 7 years do you not think i have already paid back what i spent plus much much more? You say that is no right to a standard of living but there has to be a humane right to not be take advantage of.....whats your problem dude? We all admit its a bad thing but give us a chance to pay off the debt....credit companies arent supposed to puish people because that isnt ethical is it? Regardless of the terms and conditions....would loansharking be legal if there was fine print? Probably not....come on man get of it already.