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posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


As I said before, if I miss a payment on student loans then I will pay the price, and I am perfectly fine with it. I took out the loan and agreed to it. I looked at the terms, and I know what they are. The bank is perfectly justified in carrying out those terms. But I won't be missing a payment because I went with a service that is automated and if it fails I won't be charged a late fee - see, there we go again to taking personal responsibility and actually entering into loan agreements by reading the terms.

All I'm going to do is repeat what I've said: pay your debt. You agreed to it. You made a mistake, now you pay for it. Don't like it? Don't take out loans with terms you don't like. It's just that simple. Don't use other peoples money if you can't handle the costs. If you refuse to take the measures needed to pay off your debt, don't whine. Banks are not charity, and are not here to lend you a helping hand. Don't like being under greedy bank agreements? Don't take out loans that let them be greedy. Of course, you again presume this is greed, and have yet to explain to me why this is not CALLED RUNNING A BUSINESS. But then again, you think everything should exist to be warm and fuzzy and "cut you a break."

[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]




posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


I run a business smarty and i know what the difference is in doing busines and price gouging. I dont have to charge the little guy more than the big guy...in fact i would charge those large institutions more because they can afford it. That might be wrong but its been done to me for so long so i thought maybe i can get my peice of the pie so i can pay off my debt....anyway.
Would you be happy if they raised your rate to 32% after you mistakingly missed one payment? They calle these rates variable for a reason you know....you miss one payment and they can raise it to whatever they want in some cases and thats cool with you?



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


I'd be fine if they raised my rates to 32%. Except - they won't - do you know why? Yes, thats right, I signed a loan agreement that I read. The default rate isn't that high.

As for everything else:


All I'm going to do is repeat what I've said: pay your debt. You agreed to it. You made a mistake, now you pay for it. Don't like it? Don't take out loans with terms you don't like. It's just that simple. Don't use other peoples money if you can't handle the costs. If you refuse to take the measures needed to pay off your debt, don't whine. Banks are not charity, and are not here to lend you a helping hand. Don't like being under greedy bank agreements? Don't take out loans that let them be greedy. Of course, you again presume this is greed, and have yet to explain to me why this is not CALLED RUNNING A BUSINESS. But then again, you think everything should exist to be warm and fuzzy and "cut you a break."



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


Ok so just so we are clear....you think that everyone in debt should cut down on things like cars, food, clothes and anything that would make their life convenient? so they should walk to work, walk to school and work 3 jobs to get out of debt? Yea that makes sense....you have three kids and then tell me if thats possible. When did you apply for your first loan? When did you get your first credit card? 10 years ago when i got mine i didnt even know fine print existed because i guess i assumed that humans are inherently good and not looking to take advantage of others. Therefore if there were any special conditions i guess i assumed that they would tell me to my face right? So i was too innocent to beleive such things and now im paying the price for it as do so many others in my position....ok i get that now. Gee thanks for clearing it up....im gonna start carrying around a terms and conditions card for my citizenship. Sorry im not paying that price for the train because last week i was delayed an hour and if you read the terms and conditions, a consumer (thats me) does not have to pay for a service if it does not fulfill the need that it was supposed to. Ill work something up...thanks dude you solved all my gripes and those of the rest of us debtors.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


Again, same broken record. By the way, there is no innate right that because you don't like the service that you don't have to pay for it. If its written in the terms and conditions of the MTA, then you have a point. But it isn't.


All I'm going to do is repeat what I've said: pay your debt. You agreed to it. You made a mistake, now you pay for it. Don't like it? Don't take out loans with terms you don't like. It's just that simple. Don't use other peoples money if you can't handle the costs. If you refuse to take the measures needed to pay off your debt, don't whine. Banks are not charity, and are not here to lend you a helping hand. Don't like being under greedy bank agreements? Don't take out loans that let them be greedy. Of course, you again presume this is greed, and have yet to explain to me why this is not CALLED RUNNING A BUSINESS. But then again, you think everything should exist to be warm and fuzzy and "cut you a break."



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


So you still operate under the "buyer beware" ideology?
I thought that was done away with when the right of return law was passed for consumers right? We do have rights as consumers dont we?
Enjoy your ramen.....i surely do hope all of this pays off for you but what i dont hope is that you become so hard on people who are in debt and struggling and understand them more then just telling them "too bad, deal with it" What about those people who were suckered into terrible mortgages? They didnt know any better, but they deserve to be poor and homeless right? To a point your logic can offend a lot of people and cause more harm than good. I just want the system to be equal and fair and competely free of BS terms and conditions or at least make them 100% visible. By the way, some employees for these credit card companies are aware of these problems and dont just say to people "too bad"....some of them actually have gone onto college campuses to educate the students about things such as terms and conditions. Yet why would they if nothng is wrong?



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


Life is not fair. Sorry to have to break it to you. Never was. And by the way, I don't need to eat ramen and drink only water because I have not spent money on things I can't afford. If I do, then I will be doing that, because the difference between me and you is I don't play the victim and take responsibility for all my actions.

As for everything else, yet again:


All I'm going to do is repeat what I've said: pay your debt. You agreed to it. You made a mistake, now you pay for it. Don't like it? Don't take out loans with terms you don't like. It's just that simple. Don't use other peoples money if you can't handle the costs. If you refuse to take the measures needed to pay off your debt, don't whine. Banks are not charity, and are not here to lend you a helping hand. Don't like being under greedy bank agreements? Don't take out loans that let them be greedy. Of course, you again presume this is greed, and have yet to explain to me why this is not CALLED RUNNING A BUSINESS. But then again, you think everything should exist to be warm and fuzzy and "cut you a break."



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


You still didnt answer my questions though....repeating yourself doesnt prove any point. When did i say i dont take personal responsibility for my actions? I work 55 hours a week....if i had no responsibility i would stay home [SNIP] all day right? So what exactly do you mean when you say that, because you keep accusing me of that when in reality i spend more time at work than i do in my own bed like most of the working class. We dont want breaks....we want understandig from people like you and dont want to be told life is unfair beause we already know it. Yet do you have to make it that much more unfair because thats all you are doing. Debtors want to pay their debt, at least i do, but we need a support system or just plain support and lowering the interest rate should be no sweat off their sacks.....
Do me a favor and explain to me how you think credit card companies work?

------------------------------------
Removed drug reference re: T&C's

2e.) Illegal Activity: Discussion of illegal activities; specifically mind-altering drugs, computer hacking, criminal hate, sexual relations with minors, and stock scams are strictly forbidden

[edit on 20/12/07 by masqua]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


Your questions have been answered. Ten times already. I refuse to repeat myself. Read. Every single time you ask questions that I have answered I will repeat myself.

This IS the last time I will repeat myself, AGAIN. After this I will resume quoting myself:

You refuse to take personal responsibility because you refuse to do the proper amount of work to clear your debt. Poor you, 55 hours a week - who cares? I worked 60 hours a week while going to college full time. You can work more. You can buy less. You could pay down your debt, but you prefer to whine about it and blame it all on the big evil credit card company. YOU refuse to take responsibility for the fact that YOU ENTERED INTO LOAN AGREEMENTS WHICH SPECIFICALLY OUTLINED THE FEES YOU WOULD PAY IF YOU DID NOT PAY ACCORDING TO THE TERMS. You DECIDED TO TAKE THE LOAN. Don't like the fees? Don't take out the loan.

I do not make life unfair. I choose to enter into credit agreements where I like the terms. I'm sorry that upsets you. I do not take a victim mentality: my finances are of my own doing, not the credit card company.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


Actually i want to disagree....life is fair. Its people like you who make it unfair because of your "do it yourself, you should be punished immensly for your mistakes" attitude. So you read all of your terms and conditions? Did you memorize them? If their lending practices are so ethical then why have so much fine print? They make it fine for a reason you know.....its because they dont want you to see it~!!!!! If i went up to that guy on my campus and asked him what the penalty rate was there is no way he would know....I dont disagree with you on the personal responsiblity thing dude but how long should you think someone should be punished for their ill choosen paths? After all....according to you mistakes happen.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


Your socialist badge is revealed. Sorry, life isn't fair. That you want everyone to be equal because your mad that people have more than you doesn't matter.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


WHO the hell is mad about people having more? this isnt about that...come on man your bring this to a place where it shouldnt go. You think i give a crap about that guys yacht? Or his hot wife? No freakin way do i care about what you have or what the ceo of microsoft has....i do care however when i have to pay more for taking the train that doesnt work properly when some fat cat who holds a high seat in an institution like the MTA that operates off of a budget determined by the governor which incidently IS tax money, gets paid a rediculous amount of money. Thats what i have a problem with....there is no balance there. You are so rude when you accuse people of stuff. NEWS FLASH!! WE ARE ALL EQUAL BECAUSE WE ARE HUMAN. You arent better than me and im not better than you so take your descriminatory, conservative republican attitude elsewhere and dont label me until you know me.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Before this gets too heated, I sincerely propose civilty is maintained in this discussion.

Remember to kick the ball, not the player.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


I agree. I'd also like to point out that this poster originally volunteered his own finances, and no one asked for them. I have repeatedly told him I don't care to discuss his personal finances, and he continues to do so anyways.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


I dont care about referring to my personal finances....everything is personal today so its cool. What i was saying was that he shouldnt label people as "socialist" and claim that i am one or that i state that we all deserve the same amount of money or something....i dont even know what his point was other than to call me some kind of a communist.I understand the basics of entitlement, you get what you work for and so on but we should all be treated with the same amount of respect and integrity and the simple truth is that we arent. The way you are treated in society is determined by how much money you have and that isnt right....just look at eduation for instance. Why is it that at a young age, pre k to be exact, the quality of your education is determined by how much money your parents have? Why does this child in east new york not have the same opportunities that the child in a rich part of long island where all of the private acadamies are? They simply dont because they cant afford it....education is not a business so this is not right in my opinion. Yet by his logic....if the parents are in debt that is their fault but it means they cant afford a good education for their child unless they take out more debt. Its a slippery slope from there.....



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


Yes, you do. Because you want everyone to be equal. You want to punish people who have more than you, and bring up your standard of living because you have less. I have less, and I am happy that other people have much more than I do - and I don't care how they got it as long as its legal. It gives me something to work toward. You want to play the victim, and your mad that I wont sympathize with you.

You associate anyone who disagrees with you as "republican" and "discriminatory" - you've just shown you can't back up anything you say and are incapable of offering any real counter opinions. Sad part for you is that your labels couldn't be further from the truth - but you use them because you have confronted reasoning which you cannot dispute.

You use the same arguments over and over, so I will now begin quoting myself again:



You fundamentally misunderstand government salaries. Top appointed employees must be paid well, because they can get two or three times their salary in the private sector. They never get paid what the private sector is worth. Also, you fail to recognize that if you paid the top administrators of the MTA $0, you would make absolutely no dent in the budget. Their salary is nothing compared to the infrastructure costs of maintaining public transportation.


By the way, stop lying about my logic. I'll let you know when you've got my logic right - so far - completely off the mark. Thats understandable, because you don't really want to understand it - it would shatter your reality.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


No dude, you labeled me remember? You called me a socialist? And by the way whats so wrong with having hopes for a time when we are all treated equally? You really just missed the point once again....im not mad. Im mad when i get taken advantage of and just because i made a mistake doesnt mean that what is done to me afterwards is right. The creditors understand all that we speak of here and they know they can do anything they want to which is why you have people in my position and even worse. I told you, i dont care about what you have or what he has because envy is no way to live your life. What i do care about is being told that my mistakes warrent more of a punishment than the mistakes of those who have more money and hold high political office. Do you think that would be fair? Would you label me a commi if i wanted all who made these mistakes to be treated equally? The punishment has to fit the crime right? So i took out a loan and missed one payment....how long should i be punished? Conversely, if a civil service employee makes a "mistake" and misuses the budget that was allotted to that civil institution, do they pay a price? If so, what is it? Also, is that punshment equal to the economic hardships that debtors face because of high interest rates which for some could eventually lead to bankruptcy and homelessness becuase "no one gets a break"?



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


You know what would shatter your reality? If you missed something in your terms and conditions and end up in the same place as most people do....that would be poetic. you would be mixed with all different feelings wouldnt you? At first you would be angry because you would think that this fee or rate change or whatever it may be wasnt in the terms and conditins.....later to find out that it was but it wasnt in the documentation you received and that you had to request the info before you could read it. How about that dude? Would you then submit defeat or would you stand up and say BS? It happens man...dont think you are so freakin safe.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


I have hope that we are never treated equally. I don't want a doctor to be paid the same amount as someone who stocks at wal-mart. Ever. It's called equality of opportunity, and not equality of results. Learn it, its a important concept.

No one takes advantage of you, yet again:



All I'm going to do is repeat what I've said: pay your debt. You agreed to it. You made a mistake, now you pay for it. Don't like it? Don't take out loans with terms you don't like. It's just that simple. Don't use other peoples money if you can't handle the costs. If you refuse to take the measures needed to pay off your debt, don't whine. Banks are not charity, and are not here to lend you a helping hand. Don't like being under greedy bank agreements? Don't take out loans that let them be greedy. Of course, you again presume this is greed, and have yet to explain to me why this is not CALLED RUNNING A BUSINESS. But then again, you think everything should exist to be warm and fuzzy and "cut you a break."


Perhaps you should read this entire thread again, and stop making assumptions that fit your rose colored glasses. Employees enter into a contract with their government, which outlines what will happen to them if they make a mistake. That you dislike the terms of that contract does not mean its unfair. You entered into terms with your creditor. Same concept. Your just want to think your being punished. Victim mentality.

Oh and by the way, when I screw up my contracts I know I screwed up. No victim mentality here. I don't blame anyone.


[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


First off, the last time i reviewed my contract law notes....a contract is not valid unless both parties are aware of the conidtions and terms and AGREE to them. Then you might say "Well you agreed to them when you signed" and my answer would be, not exactly since they were not out in the open and basically hidden in the FINE print. There should be no fine print in a contract so i could let the whole thing go into collections and then file an order to show cause and go to court and settle for a lower price. Its not a contract and isnt exactly legally binding....ill bring that info in tomorrow and quote it directly.

I spent this whole time just trying to change you accusatory attitude to a more understanding one. People dont want to be poor and at certain points intheir lives they are educated enough to understand the full implications of their actions and these creditors take advantage of that. Which is why there has been certain legislation that impeded these companies from charging such high interest ( i have a friend in collections andi will ask more about that so i can show you some "Proof").



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