Jerusalem to be divided, declares Israeli official

reply to post by MikeboydUS


None of those stack up to the Palestinian struggle. They killed over 750,000 men, women, and children to establish the state of Israel. Compare Palestine to Norther Ireland. Talk about "apologist,' Jesus Christ. Have you any idea what goes on over there? I have a friend who was in the Army Special Forces and he summed it up nicely "It's a # genocide. It's incredible."

A racist aphartied state is not a 'democracy' .. western democracys are not 'white' or 'christian' states..they have equal rights for all citizens..Israel has never been a western style democracy because it is inherently racist and does not represent the people it govrnes, just some of them. So lets not dirty our country by comparing it to a segregationist jimcrowe state.

Originally posted by laiguana
Israel should extend, because they spread democracy over ignorance. Islam is backwards and they only spread with acts of terrorism, suicide bombers and lies. Israel is a nation that fought off many attacks by islamic nations, it is only inviting them now. Israel is going to destroy itself if it appeases to terrorists.

Honestly I dont think the jews are very racist if you remember it was whites (Nazi Germans) that tried to eliminate them second to the Muslim nations I would say if they are racist they would hate everyone.And in my oppinon for good reason...But for a bunch of people that have been kicked around so much in history they sure are tough....It seems to me as if at one time or another someone seems to be trieing to eliminate all the time....But they keep coming back time after time.....

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

None of those stack up to the Palestinian struggle. They killed over 750,000 men, women, and children to establish the state of Israel. Compare Palestine to Norther Ireland. Talk about "apologist,' Jesus Christ. Have you any idea what goes on over there? I have a friend who was in the Army Special Forces and he summed it up nicely "It's a # genocide. It's incredible."

I need some sources for your figure of 750,000. I'm having a hard time finding evidence of a number that high.

This is what I could find. This is just a small sampling.

1948-1973 Arab Israeli Wars 70,000 dead (both sides)

compare to:
Chinese Invasion of Tibet 1949-1950: 1.2 million dead
Partition of Pakistan and India 1949: 1 million dead
French Algerian War 1954-1962: 368,000
Armenian Genocide in Turkey 1915: 1.2 million
Kurds Vs. Iraq 1961-2003: 180,000
Kurds Vs. Turkey 1980- : 35,000

Palestinian Intifada 1987- : 4,500

If anyone bothered to research they would find the Jordanians and Lebanese have killed far more Palestinians than the Israelis. Someone is using the Palestinians as a pawn against Israel, a pawn that will be discarded when objectives are met. Look at the information critically and objectively. Both the Israelis and the Arabs will be getting the short end of the stick before this is over with.

Come to think of it, I bet the US military has killed more Palestinians in Iraq (Insurgents/Terrorists) since 2003 than Israel has inside Israel.







[edit on 11/12/07 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by Sentinel 1
Honestly I dont think the jews are very racist if you remember it was whites (Nazi Germans) that tried to eliminate them

yes but white nazi germans also attacked how many other countries? and declared war on the US as well.

as far as Jews being racist, depending on what side of the fence your on there is an arguement both ways...
the definition of racism is

According to UN International Conventions, "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

some say this is currently going on in palestine.

also it might not be racism but alot of jewish folks never wander outside of the jewish community for a spouse. have you ever seen a jewish man married to a black woman? im not sure if thats racism but some would say it is.

Originally posted by turbokid

as far as Jews being racist, depending on what side of the fence your on there is an arguement both ways...
the definition of racism is

According to UN International Conventions, "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

some say this is currently going on in palestine.

also it might not be racism but alot of jewish folks never wander outside of the jewish community for a spouse. have you ever seen a jewish man married to a black woman? im not sure if thats racism but some would say it is.

There are racists or Identity Fanatics in every culture, ethnicity and race. I can guarantee discrimination that is happening in Israel is happening elsewhere and in many cases much much worse.

You do realize there are black jews. Ethiopia was a Jewish Kingdom up until around 300 AD. It still has a Jewish minority to this very day.

If you want a modern example of a Jewish man and a African woman, I point you to Slash, formerly of Guns and Roses, whose mother is Nigerian and his father a Jewish Englishman.

reply to post by turbokid

yes but white nazi germans also attacked how many other countries? and declared war on the US as well.

The Nazi's made it completely obvious to me who they were out to exterminate with thier gas chambers and different kinds of ways to kill jews (speciffically) You have to admit though they went after other countries there was no other group of people they went after more aggresively than the Jews alone.....The Nazi had an intention of getting rid of all of them period...That was one of their main goals.....

The 750,000 figure..that is the number of Palestinians expelled when Israel was created in 1948, not killed..but many of them wound up in Lebanon and for the next 4 decades suffered repeated massacres by the Israelis and their facist-christian clients-the Phalange and the haddads murderers in the south..the chritians would massacre, the israelis would bomb and shell.

I don't care what 'jews' went through throughout history, the Jews are the Jews and it is a religion, the Zionists are the mostly european people that came to Palestine sinnce 1890..but mostly from the 1930's-

their history is massexpulsion of the indeginous population and the most draconian aphartied in humna history..

lets identify what the problem is, not Jews but the fact that zionism is an inherently racist movement because it calls on the non-jewish inhabitants of Palestine to be removed so they(jews) can take their land and have a non-pluralistic jewish purity state..had Jews simply came there to live with the indeginous population i'm sure there would have been some tension as there always is, but you would have never had this catastrophic bloodletting that continues in the middle east today with the zionist americans murdering iraqi arabs everyday as part of the zionist terror-genocide movement..

racism is racism and you don't give special permission to a certain group to be racist..if christian white people do this is kukluxklan racism but it's ok for jewish white-people to do it?

reply to post by pkspeaker



So I guess the "zionists" of christianity is the whole problem??

Well I seem to remember somthing in history called the "persian empire" so the muslims are not to blame at all???? And it also seems to me that they had an idea of join us or die....Sound familiar???? I mean realistically it is a power struggle survival of the fittest....

Originally posted by Sentinel 1
Well I seem to remember somthing in history called the "persian empire" so the muslims are not to blame at all????

Persian Empire was before Islam. No relevance whatsoever to the discussion.

It actually depends on which time line you are looking at...To make a wide statment like that....Remember the Iranians are Persians...And what religeon is theirs.....So I would have to differ...Now if you go all the way back to Xerxis.....Then nothat was before Islam, but dont mix up your history there was and is an Islamic conquest of Persia....Which is an empire....Which started after the second Perian empire (Sassanid Empire) in 656 and I think it is still trieing to go on today aswell.

Point is, what do the Persians/Iranians have to do with the discussion of Israelis and the Arabs and the proposed division of Jerusalem? Is all the anti-Iran propaganda making you tie the two together?

Sorry if you got confussed I made a "refference" to the Persians (Arabs) for his comments to the "zionists genocide" comment actions of the Israelis toward the Palestinians as they are Muslims to compare the 2 together it is the same thing...It is a power struggle to convert or wipe out each other.....And to show the violence is coming from both sides it is not just all the Israelis as he was trieing to say.....So it is totally relevant... history speaks for it self.....

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I retract all my statements in concerns with that statistic. I was up for far too long the past 2 days.

Though, we can see the the dangers and injustices from all angles of the situation, that doesn't mean we "compare" them as to who is better or worse. The land rightfully belongs to the surviving 750,000 or their family in case of death. This land does not belong to Israel. Simple and plain with no comparisons.

reply to post by Sentinel 1


The way I see it, you were the one who got confused. It's understandable, because the term "Jew" can be read as either a religion (like Muslim or Christian) or race (like Arab or Chinese). In the context of his post, he was clearly talking about the latter. Hence his reference to the Zionist movement and the subsequent usage of the term 'racist'.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Beachcoma]

Reply to Sentinel1

Do you think theres more to it than just Israel give the land back to palestinians to achieve PEACE?

reply to post by kangjia57




Heck yes I think it is more than just Israel giving up the land although the land is part of the picture it is all about religeon....They can not live in peace next to each other at all....There are to many hostilities....Because we know Israel couldnt have just migrated into Lebanon as the Palistenians did....Wonder why that is???

The Palestinians didn't migrate into lebanon, they were forced out of their country in a massive ethnic cleansing operation..things that took place duing ancient times have some relevance..

after the Roman empire split, the Byzantine Empire came to control Palestine and what is now Lebanon and Syria, it was the Byzantine empire that destroyed the jewish temple in Jerusalem and kicked out Jews, makeing their empire a 'Christian' state. The Jews took refuge in the territories of the Arabs, hense you have(had) yemini, and iraqi jews. Once the Arabs went islam they rolled over the Byzantines taking Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine..then they kept going all the way through north africa and into spain..or what was the Arab Empire but most commonly known as the Islamic Caliphate. The Arabs allowed their Jewish cousins back into Palestine or where ever they wanted to live in the empire.
Then The Christian Crusaders came in about 1100 and expelled the Jews(and muslims) again, when they reached Jerusalem they executed every muslim and jewish man, woman, and child in the city an moved in to 'live' there.
87 years later Saladin finally sacked Jerusalem and the 1st crusade was finshed, the christians were expelled to acre and then acre eventualy surrendered
The Arabs again allowed the Jews to return to Palestine.

Jews and Arabs lived in peace for years and were united against the Crusaders and the byzantines..

The zionists are mostly racist europeans, americans, russians, etc. like the S.Afrikanners were, they victimize the indeginous population..they are much more like the crusaders than they are those 'arab' jews that were victimized by the byzantines and crusaders, they are the ethnic cleansers and the oppressors..

reply to post by pkspeaker

The Palestinians didn't migrate into lebanon, they were forced out of their country in a massive ethnic cleansing operation..things that took place duing ancient times have some relevance..

Sorry to disagree with you but the Palestinian and Israeli conflict isnt about ethnic cleansing....It is about Israels right to exisist the PLO or Hamas or Fatah which ever name they go by now is doing the ethnic cleansing if any of them are.....The Brits controlled the territory after WWI and struck a deal with the UN and Arab league to give Israel the land they are on and this is all a fight over the West bank mainly because it is the high ground Israel knows if they lose it they will be destroyed by the Muslims......It is a religeous war.....

Islam and Judism are basically the same religion, so don't give me this BS that it is a religious war..and even if it is the solution is to take religion out of the state, that way it represents it's people and not just these racist foreigners or only certain people that are Jewish..when it was Palestine there were 'arab' palestinian jews (there were already jews in palestine befoe the first racist zionist showed up from europe), christians, muslims..they lived in peace for centuries and struggled against the racist murderer crusaders together..it was only when the racist zionsts showed up from europe (who were european people like the crusaders) with their racist ideology that this vicious conflict started..and Palestinian Christians have always sided with the Palestinians, the PLO and fatah has many christians in it..and American racist 'evangelical' (racist white people) christians side with the zionists against Palestinian christians because the zionist are racist..it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with race.