War On Terror is a Fraud

lilblam, well said, but what you commented in the first part of your sermon about proof's, you then contradicted by your own wording of this:

"It's when you act on a whim, an assumption, or an outright lie....."


Proof is a two-edged sword and in such, is given by both sides of an argument. To pronounce one side as giving "lie or an assumption or acting on a whim" is which side of the "proof" and which side of the "truth"?


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 6-2-2004 by Seekerof]

- Proof/truth survives judicial scrutiny.

- Court papers are "sealable". The contention that supplying proof would constitute a security risk is baseless. Why should our Allie circumvent their rule of law to appease a very weak argument?

- Because our Allie opposed this fake war, rightfully so regardless of whatever self serving motives to their industry, how & why do we come to question their respect for the sanctity of Law & their due diligence of getting criminals off the worlds streets?

BeHeadr: "EastCoastKid: To the best of my knowledge the only evidence the Bush admin has that ties OBL to sept 11 is that low quality video tape of him that was found in a house in afgahnastan".

Then you're terribly misinformed. Do a google search for :

Bush Bin laden Arbusto James Bath

and take your pick amongst the 1,840 results.

Thomas Crowne: Hey, NOBODY has been convicted of anything to do with 9-11. Some of the terrorists that the Pentagon said were on the planes were later proven to be alive, no less.

For the singlemost heinous crime in American history to go totally unsolved for more than 2 years should give you some kind of a wake-up call, you'd figure.

Normally, on a crime scene, EVERYTHING is documented and analyzed. Funny thing, within DAYS the metal from the collapsed towers was being shipped off to India. Weird, huh? You'd figure they might want to do structural tests or something to see why exactly both towers fell.

But they didn't. Answer me why. My answer is that THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE, which is blatantly obvious.

The entire war on Terror is a sham.

Your arguments are weak and you show no proof as to your assertions.

"You ignore fact and prefer to believe baseless theory. Wake up, you say? Where's your proof? The war against us has been going on for decades and many have died, only we never fought back...until now. Your head in the sand does not require our waking up. "

What baseless theory? Nobody has been convicted of any wrongdoing for 9-11. Nobody who did it, and nobody who was responsible for any "intelligence failures". THAT'S your proof.

The war has been going on for years and you never fought back?!?!

Okay, now I KNOW that you're obviously from another planet. WTF was Gulf War I? WTF does the CIA do with their time in between toppling DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENTS (Chile, Nicaragua, Brazil, etc)?

You're clearly delusional, or you watch too much CNN.... or both I guess.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Aw, for cryin' out farkin' loud, listen to yourself. Your response is that I need to provide evidence, but you do not, and that I need deprogramming.
You have all the symptoms of "I read theories on the 'puter too much and am in dire need of a walk in the sunshine!" syndrome. There is help. Skeptic Overlord and I can set up one of those tough love meetings to deprogram you if you'd like.

Your avoidance to answering my challenge is well noted.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Hey, kid, you see him? He's so not gellin'.

Frock us, man. He's the 'all-knowing.'

Originally posted by heelstone
What I want to know is: How many people have been tried and convicted as being part of the terrorist organization known as "Al Qaeda"?

If nobody is responsible, then who did it?

Well, here's some food for thought:

"7 of the 19 believed hijackers named are still alive.
Saeed Alghamdi, Mohand Alshehri, Abdul aziz Alomari, Salem Alhazmi
"It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened." - Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press after meeting with President George W. Bush on Sept. 20th
Saeed Alghamdi, Mohand Alshehri, Abdul aziz Alomari and Salem Alhazmi "are not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington." The Saudi Arabian embassy told The Orlando Sentinel.

A sixth person on the FBI's list, Saudi national Waleed Alshehri, is living in Casablanca, according to an official with the Royal Air Moroc, the Moroccan commercial airline. According to the unnamed official, Alshehri lived in Dayton Beach, Fla., where he took flight training at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Now he works for a Moroccan airline. On Sept. 22, Associated Press reported that Alshehri had spoken to the U.S. embassy in Morocco.

Saeed Alghamdi (Flight 93) (Trained Pilot) Mr. Al-Ghamdi is still alive and well and at his job for Tunis Air
"I was completely shocked. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus 320. The FBI provided no evidence of my presumed involvement in the attacks." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001"
propagandamatrix.com...

Originally posted by jezebel

Originally posted by heelstone
What I want to know is: How many people have been tried and convicted as being part of the terrorist organization known as "Al Qaeda"?

If nobody is responsible, then who did it?

Well, here's some food for thought:

"7 of the 19 believed hijackers named are still alive.
Saeed Alghamdi, Mohand Alshehri, Abdul aziz Alomari, Salem Alhazmi
"It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened." - Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press after meeting with President George W. Bush on Sept. 20th
Saeed Alghamdi, Mohand Alshehri, Abdul aziz Alomari and Salem Alhazmi "are not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington." The Saudi Arabian embassy told The Orlando Sentinel.

A sixth person on the FBI's list, Saudi national Waleed Alshehri, is living in Casablanca, according to an official with the Royal Air Moroc, the Moroccan commercial airline. According to the unnamed official, Alshehri lived in Dayton Beach, Fla., where he took flight training at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Now he works for a Moroccan airline. On Sept. 22, Associated Press reported that Alshehri had spoken to the U.S. embassy in Morocco.

Saeed Alghamdi (Flight 93) (Trained Pilot) Mr. Al-Ghamdi is still alive and well and at his job for Tunis Air
"I was completely shocked. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus 320. The FBI provided no evidence of my presumed involvement in the attacks." - Telegraph 23rd September 2001"
propagandamatrix.com...

Yes, the US government has yet to explain this little oddity. Thanks for pointing that out.

It's excellent.

www.propagandamatrix.com...

EastCoastKid,

You are far ahead of the ignorant and brainwashed.

All the best...

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You ignore fact and prefer to believe baseless theory. Wake up, you say? Where's your proof? The war against us has been going on for decades and many have died, only we never fought back...until now. Your head in the sand does not require our waking up.

Dude! I mean, we're still friends and all, but you're hopelessly blind. I suggest you do some historical research and find out how much BS we've pulled over the years. We've been all in their # for ages now.

Ask Youreself who has profited most from 9/11?
Why the twin towers?
Surely the great big nuclear powerstation down the road would have been a much better and easier to hit target than the wtc?
Imagine the devastation taking out a nuclear powerstation, vast amounts of land uninhabitable for many many years, the USA in a real state of panic plus many more than 3000 dead instantly not to mention those dying of cancer across the whole of the country.
If 9/11 was the mother of all terrorist attacks and planned to perfection, then they got the target totally wrong.

Originally posted by johnlear
EastCoastKid,

You are far ahead of the ignorant and brainwashed.

All the best...

Thanks man. I just hope more people start tp wake up and see the writing on the wall.

Stop listening to the masters of war. ALL WE HAVE TO FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF!

Originally posted by BeHeadR
EastCoastKid: To the best of my knowledge the only evidence the Bush admin has that ties OBL to sept 11 is that low quality video tape of him that was found in a house in afgahnastan.

I'm not going to get in the debate about weather its really him or not on the tape. Though we all know that we, the gerneral public, aren't getting the full story.

Well, gee whiz. that little ol' tape has ol osama bin' murderer bragging about the way they (his bombers) attacked the structual integrity of the twin towers ( and the 3000+ lives lost) and clearly shows him speculating on the engineering aspects of the effects....

You anti-American ass wipes need to go straight to hades with osama.

[Edited on 13-2-2004 by Tyriffic]

More than I hate libs harking on the "lies, cheating, evil, imperialistic" vibe all day, is the conservative (or pro-war if that's your persuasion) punks coming around with their "Anti-American" BULL #.

I am against the liberal propaganda machine, but hell, you pro-war folks should perhaps check the rights allowed in this country.

If to be categorically un-American is to utilize the freedom of speech, then join the club, because you do it too. It's not just for what you LIKE to hear.

Originally posted by Bout Time

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Hey, kid, you see him? He's so not gellin'.

Bwaaaaaaah!

You go Thomas! Did you get the new union contract ratified or something, because that's some funny stuff! Glad to see a sense of humor has not abandoned you!

Better than a new contract, a few months ago three members were wrongfully terminated. Because the company is incredibly stupid it went all the way to arbitration. The hearing went so horribly bad for the company that we didn't even get teh chance to call our own witnesses!
I have to hand it to our production manager, he's tenacious! It took the union lawyer five hours to get the truth out of him!

Originally posted by Seekerof
In addressing the article,
One has to remember that the US wanted this "Moroccan student" extradicted to the US so that 'he' could face charges based on crimes committed against the US. The German's refused. The US, in turn, when asked to supply evidences (ie: sensitive intellignece information, I presume), basically refused for the reasoning of the German's to not extradite the "Moroccan student" to the US. Boiled down to lack of cooperation for lack of cooperation. Then again, the fact should be mentioned that Germany voted against the US, thus, this was also in the background reasoning.

German law forbids to extradict people to countries which still have the death sentence. That's in our constitution(the USA created along with others...funny how their stuff comes back to their own misfortune, eh? ).
In addition to that this guy would be in prison till his dead if sentenced for what he did, the evidence was held by the USA - held till today and not given out because of baby-like "You didnt support my war for non-existing WMDs"

So if all wents fine our little guest student will be free and can go on his second trip to the USA
- to summarize:
Germany wanted him in prison
The evidence needed was denied by the US
Result: A free terrorist who has strong hate against the USA - freed by the help of the USA.

Priceless!

Originally posted by lilblam
There is no "proof" for either side. But that doesn't stop the government from commiting mass murder and toppling regimes, now does it...

Doesn't stop the CIA from having hundreds of thousands of secret missions to SUPPORT regimes such as Saddam's and crush the opposition.

So it's not about who can provide proof for either side, it's more of a "If no one has any proof of anything, why do anything?".

Until there's proof, who pulled the government by their sore nipples into pre-emptive strikes and to declare war?

Eastcoastkid may not have "proof", but he sure isn't the one doing anything to anyone until he finds it. It's when you act on a whim, an assumption, or an outright lie, that you get yourself knee-deep in bullsh1t.

exactly. not only is there no proof, but no investigation. only stonewalling(in the name of 'national security.')rhetoric and slogans.

when there's a murder, NOTHING moves 'til the forensics check it out.
and here, the biggest failure of the 'mighty' u.s. forces, resulting in the biggest crime against america, not only goes univestigated, but all evidence is buried or shipped overseas.

TC, there is nothing wrong with the 'puter. it is the true 'free press', where real people who really care can publish their findings, regardless of what the media moguls okay as 'news'. and, i'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice, that we're using the computer right now to have this informational exchange
clinton got reamed for smoking a joint and getting blown.
bush gets nothing for his DWI, AWOL, savings and loan bankruptcies and bailouts, ken lay associations, bin laden associations and coc aine problems. ....hello!

the ministry of truth sure has a handful with shrub!

that bin laden tape is pathetic.

I absolutely do not trust any Bin Laden tapes.

There were different tapes with two different men on them, both supposedly Bin Laden. Right.

This administration controls Bin Laden.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
What, did you just learn a new title, "useful idiots"? Here's a couple others I've learned after studying since the 70's to what you say I'm a slave; cattle, sheep, sheeple, Goya (pardon if the spelling is incorrect...there are more, but you'll find them as you read.

To say that I am a useful idiot to the Agenda because you draw an entire picture from one guy being released by the German court and I ask for some decent evidence, come now.
Use cotton balls to keep the sand out of your ears!

No one's drawing any pictures, except our gov't. That's what he was trying to tell you. You don't assume fact, you prove it. All of what we have come to believe to be fact, is based upon assumptions that have been stated so often, they've manifested themselves as accepted fact...when in reality, we don't have any evidence, or very, very little. Apparently, if you use propaganda in such a repetitious way, you don't need evidence. The spoken word becomes "evidence" when enough people believe it.

[Edited on 2-18-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
[quoteNo one's drawing any pictures, except our gov't. That's what he was trying to tell you. You don't assume fact, you prove it. All of what we have come to believe to be fact, is based upon assumptions that have been stated so often, they've manifested themselves as accepted fact...when in reality, we don't have any evidence, or very, very little. Apparently, if you use propaganda in such a repetitious way, you don't need evidence. The spoken word becomes "evidence" when enough people believe it.

Straight outta the Nazi playbook. Hitler's information minister said that if you tell the big lie long enough, the people would always believe it. So true.



[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]