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TAPS Faking evidence?

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posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 11:57 AM
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Let me start this post by saying I am a skeptical believer. I do believe there is something out there. I have done my share of paranormal research (ghost hunting if you will). I prefer not to use the term ghost hunter because I believe it tends to make the field look even more goofy to confirmed skeptics. But before I consider something legit, I do everything in my power to find a logical explanation. I try to maintain a level of professionalism in my work that is beyond compare. Does that make me perfect? No way. Would I ever damage my credibility in order to make a TV show producer happy? No way. I have turned down chances to work with television because they expected me to do just that.

I don't know if this has been posted here before. I did a quick skim through search results and didn't find anything but I may have missed something. If it has already been posted then please would a moderator lock this thread.

By scientific standards if a section of data is found to be compromised during an experiment then the entire experiment must be started over. With either the compromising factors eliminated or being tracked carefully. For example when TAPS did their investigation on the RMS Queen Mary. They found that someone had tampered with at least on camera. At that point I would have called the investigation over for the night. But then again I would have never left a hi8 camera stationary and accessible. But thats just me and my style.

Now on to why I say THEY are the ones who are fake. I am very reluctant to use the term smoking gun but I have 2 pieces of evidence that don't fall very short of that mark. They are both from the same episode, although there are other problems with other episodes these are the most obvious I have found.





Now in those 2 photos the first is taken before a commercial break. The second is the first thermal frame back from commercial break. Note the time stamps are identical but the ambient temperature readings are quite different. A slight difference of a 10th of a degree or two could be acceptable because of the cameras frame rate. Maybe a little variation during the 1/30th of a second it takes to go from one frame to another. But almost 2.5 degrees? Give me a break.

Now for the real nasty one. Yet again we are looking at a thermal image. This was taken during an investigation at the Jim Henson studios. It was the second part of the episode where the first images came from. The first segment was a house supposedly haunted by the spirits of Sharron Tate and Jay Seabring (sp?) who were victims of the Manson family murders. Unfortunately the Henson part of the episode has really been swept under the rug and forgotten by most of the TAPS faithful. No one wants to discuss it.




I want everyone to take a careful look at the time stamps in the middle of the bottom of the image. This is a screen capture from during the reveal part of the episode. The left part of the frame was taken during the investigation. They "noticed" the apparition during a walkthrough. The image on the right is an attempt to recreate the apparition. But it begs the question. Why attempt to debunk/recreate 2 HOURS BEFORE you find the anomaly?

On most other forums (especially the official TAPS forum) I have seen people attacked and shunned for posting this type of thing. But I figure I am safe here because this is a board for more analytical minds instead of mindless followers.




posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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I saw that episode recently, and I do remember that part.
In my opinion it's not such a big deal, it's just a time stamp. I know what you're saying but I don't think something that COULD have a reasonable explanation should put a damper on all of the other awesome stuff they've done.

If you have any other evidence against them I would love to see it though.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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I like their method of investigation, perhaps due to the popularity of the show it may be some issues that are for the consumption of the public and to keep public ratings.

But one thing is for sure, from many of the shows that has come and gone in SFC I think taps is the best so far and one that has been able to maintain their investigations as original as they posible can.

But remember that is still a tv show after all.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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I watched the first season of "Taps" and decided then that it's a put-on. There was some footage in an attic of a foldable chair moving. It was pretty obvious that a string or something was run under the door and the chair was pulled by someone down the stairs.

I can't believe this thing made it past Season One.


Personally, they have too many people in the cast now. It's lost its cozy intimacy with the addition of all those other people.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 01:14 PM
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I agree whole heartedly that they are by leaps and bounds better than the "competition". Even at their worst they are way better than Most Haunted and other such shows. But on the other hand these are the types of things that give the research community as a whole a very large black eye in front of the skeptics. It comes down to a matter of integrity. Its not just a matter of ratings.

As far as it being "just" a time stamp, would you care to give your opinion as to why the discrepancies? I am not trying to be combative but if you have a theory I would love to hear it and consider it. As long as its plausible.

And what makes it worse is that Jason has himself stated that the production people for the show don't get ANY of the teams footage until after the reveal. Thats when they get to format it for television and such. So if its fake (and I believe it is) then it is done by TAPS not the Sci-Fi staff. I am trying to find the place where I read that from Jason. I will edit this post with a link as soon as I find it.

Okay I found it. Kind of. The original blog post has been edited but I did find an instance of a TAPS staff member quoting it. This is on the actual TAPS 18+forum that you can link to off of the main TAPS site. It is a site administrator posting it. It can be found here

To quote in case you have to register to read that link and dont want to register:




Jason's latest blog from myspace:

Sunday, July 29, 2007

Some of you have questions???

OK, it has been brought to my attention that there is a few people out there claiming that first off Production manipulates our thermal footage. Now these people are just idiots. Production never even gets the thermal footage till after we have done the case, done the analyzing and done the reveal. Then they get copies. So the whole episode has already been filmed before any footage is shipped back to LA.

I know a few people have been asking about my feelings on the K2 meter.

I am not a big fan. Yes, we have seen it light up on its own as if its answering questions. I have seen a few things happen with it. It also seems to be easy to manipulate. If another version comes out in the future then it should have an on and off switch so the user or people around have no concerns of it being manipulated. So there you have it on the K2.

Now on the Manson murder episode.
As for the show being a publicity stunt for the home owner TAPS did not know the home owner was doing a movie on his house till after we got to the home. I do not think the case managers knew anything of it either. The homeowner did a home production of a story he wrote about some things with the Manson murders. To each their own. Would it have changed my thoughts about going there in the first place? Maybe. If I felt he really wanted help I would still have gone in a heart beat. If I had thought he only wanted publicity then we would have avoided it like we have done with 100 other places. We are there to help those who ask for help.

To those who asked about Chris Flemming,
Chris is a good guy and a friend. Each person had their own way of investigating. dowsing rods, impressions,Video,Audio,crystals and so forth. We have always opened the door for people and their techniques and always will. I do not have to agree with someone to respect their beliefs, as long as I respect the person then I am willing to work with them. Chris has his own way and to each their own.

Hope this answers all the questions that have been asked!


[edit on 9-12-2007 by zombiemann]



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by T0by
In my opinion it's not such a big deal, it's just a time stamp. I know what you're saying but I don't think something that COULD have a reasonable





It's not JUST the time stamp. Look at the battery level too. The "recreation" frame's battery level is higher than the "original" battery level. I don't think TAPS charged their camera while they were recreating the scene.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 02:04 PM
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Nice Hyzera. I spotted that but completely forgot to mention it during my rant. Thanks for pointing that out.

As I have stated, I am willing to entertain any REASONABLE explanation. Anybody have any ideas?



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 02:12 PM
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I seen the episode about the Qeen Mary.. I could have sworn they called the investigation off the moment they knew someone had tampered with the one camera. I could be wrong though, it has been about a year since I seen it.

Personally, I like TAPS compared to say, Most Haunted. TAPS goes in looking to debunk whereas Most Haunted goes in trying to prove everything and looking quite the fool sometimes.

I am not sure what to say about the time stamp/battery charge. I'd really hate to learn that they are faking evidence. I guess since most of the shows I see they debunk everything makes me more inclined to believe them. (Note, I do not watch often as I prefer to find other things to do with my time.)

VV



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by 123143
I watched the first season of "Taps" and decided then that it's a put-on. There was some footage in an attic of a foldable chair moving. It was pretty obvious that a string or something was run under the door and the chair was pulled by someone down the stairs.

I can't believe this thing made it past Season One.


Personally, they have too many people in the cast now. It's lost its cozy intimacy with the addition of all those other people.


The video is here.

As far as I can tell, the chair didn't move, 'someone' just moved the light.

TAPS seem like nice guys and AFAIK don't charge people to come. But they're hardly a scientific investigation and the above vidoe realyl leaves only two conclusions in my mind-

1. Theyr'e gullible and not too in-depth in their field work
2. They're lying.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by ValhallasValkyrie
I seen the episode about the Qeen Mary.. I could have sworn they called the investigation off the moment they knew someone had tampered with the one camera. I could be wrong though, it has been about a year since I seen it.



VV


I thought that at first as well. But just to be on the safe side I found the episode on youtube and watched it again. They kept right on going. Most of the team were pretty upset about it but Grant said "They deserve a full investigation". I am sorry but at that point, no they do not. They deserve to be told where to stick their boat at that point. But thats just my own humble opinion.

As far as entertainment value, yea its a decent show. I am by no means a loyal watcher. I don't watch anything regularly. Hell this episode was on in July of 07 I believe and I am just now getting around to watching it.

There have been other claims that I have not explored at this point due to time constraints. As I get a chance to check them out I will add more posts to this. The one that sticks out in my head at this point is supposedly grant moved a lamp but the exact episode escapes me at this point. This is just the most glaring one I noticed for my self.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 03:29 PM
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I thought they were on the up and up until recently. I know there is a big thread on the scifi forums about faking evidence and I have to say I believe they are faking evidence. I'll try and find the thread but I'm sure if anybody does a youtube search they will find alot of stuff.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by zombiemann
I want everyone to take a careful look at the time stamps in the middle of the bottom of the image. This is a screen capture from during the reveal part of the episode. The left part of the frame was taken during the investigation. They "noticed" the apparition during a walkthrough. The image on the right is an attempt to recreate the apparition. But it begs the question. Why attempt to debunk/recreate 2 HOURS BEFORE you find the anomaly?


but take a look at the pictures, the left says 12.47.49. the right says 10.15.52 p . now granted, they both have the same date stamp, but 12:47 in the morning and 10:15 at night are still the same day the last time i checked. the first photograph is from the investigation and the second was taken after, trying to recreate their findings later that day.

for the above poster to be right about claiming the right picture was taken two hours before, the time stamps would be the same, but the dates would be off, the left picture would have to say 11/11/06, because we KNOW they are doing this at night. 12:47 in the morning is the start of a new day.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 10:52 PM
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I believe the show has lost some of its honesty along the way. I started watching it first season when they barely ever saw anything and seemed to put forth an honest effort to debunk anything they experienced. Recently it seems like they can't go an episode without seeing a full body apparition. I don't buy it.

If nothing else at least they don't get hung up on orbs or use psychics as their primary sorce of research information (Most Haunted).

I think the show blew up too big and they think they need to produce to keep ratings. Or maybe all the ghosts got word of how popular the show was getting and wanted their 15 minutes of fame...



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 11:18 PM
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On the one hand, I think that it is entirely possible that TAPS is faking evidence, especially since SCIFI is such a credible source of info.
On the other hand, since TAPS started on SCIFI they have been getting more and more famous or more strongly haunted places to investigate, so it may be they are actually finding much more by way of evidence.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 11:19 PM
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Ever since Sci Fi Channel aired Scret KGB UFO Files Revealed (or whatever that crap was... obviously hoaxed and badly acted), I haven't believed a damn thing they pass as a documentary. It's all dis-info and just... crap. Like that one show I think it was called "In Search Of..." and they had this team of "scientists" and this jock- like "skeptic" who looked very very familiar, like I'd seen him on a Real World episode or something... it's all so clearly bogus, in my eyes. I watched Ghost Hunters for like a season or two, just because it was something to watch... and it seemed like it was the least hoakey "documentary" program SciFi has ever had... but still.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 11:30 PM
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I have a theory which I believe ring true. Bear with me.

This particular episode the tate/manson is one of 2 things. A Bribe or blackmail.

Jason is a guy to keep a close eye on, he is a man of consistent character. Anyone whose work was challenged and is passionate about it will defend the best and worst they have to offer, because it is theirs to defend.

Jason looked and acted completely uncomfortable during the reveal. He was quick to say his "I'm not sure" which usually is. There is Paranormal activity here, but I cant say its haunted.

Now a bribe seems possible jason and the grant are not by any means wealthy. They are influential, but more like regular guys. I know the type of guy he is, My Parents are of the older part of his generation from less than 50 miles away, blue collar types.

Someone made them an offer that fit exactly what they needed, the blue collar life is even more financially strapped, then whitecollar.

Or something was used as a blackmail against him. A man in film could have powerful allies. Trust me , I have them.

-My two cents, adhd



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by indierockalien
 


Thing about In Search of is that they tend to gloss over alternative answers and only go for proving an encounter. Plus the guy's a bit of a jack.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 03:04 AM
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Originally posted by Hyzera
It's not JUST the time stamp. Look at the battery level too. The "recreation" frame's battery level is higher than the "original" battery level. I don't think TAPS charged their camera while they were recreating the scene.


Why wouldn't you recharge the battery when you are using the camera again... 22 hours later? Your own pictures show this is the case. I still haven't seen any evidence presented that shows them doctoring evidence.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 06:28 AM
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Okay so maybe I jumped the gun a little on the Henson studios footage. That is the one with the side by side images. But at the same time, if you are going to recharge the battery, why not charge it all the way? Or did it take them almost 7 hours to recreate the example? According to what specs I could find without having the exact model of camera they have, it would have somewhere around 7 hours of total life. Not trying to be combative here. Do not mistake me. I am trying to figure out what happened. Of course thanks to the magic of television it was also made to look like they dropped what they were doing and started trying to recreate it then and there. So thats just a perception problem. A HUGE thank you to the person who originaly corrected me on my error.

But that still does not explain the temperature jump in the first 2 pictures take from supposedly the same second of film. Anybody care to tackle that one?



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 07:18 AM
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they are a tv.show, tv bussiness is about that, faking stuff so people watch their shows.
if they do a real investigation, they will find nothing, and the ratings will drop.

do u really think sci-fi wants lose ratings?

if u dont beleive me, then investigate that man vs wild guy. he fakes stuff to make it more appeal to the public www.daughtersoftiresias.org...

is the tv bussiness and is a harsh bussiness.

ghost hunters should stop giving false hope



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