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Jefferson's Writing on the Illuminati

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posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 06:56 PM
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I just found this letter that is claimed to have been written by T. Jefferson. Does it seem legitimate? Is his references to Freemasonry and the Illuminati factual? Do you Masons feel that his references to your craft accurate? Or is this just more internet junk?

Here are 2 links to the text of the letter. The first link contains a picture of the letter.

Link1

Link2




posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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What makes you question the authenticity of this letter? It's certainly Jefferson's style. I don't think the host web site would say it's Jefferson's if it wasn't.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by 123143
What makes you question the authenticity of this letter? It's certainly Jefferson's style. I don't think the host web site would say it's Jefferson's if it wasn't.


I think its quite obvious why the veracity of this site should be questioned.

(1) It's a wordpress site - which anyone can put up - having a website doesn't make you any sort of authority on the stuff you publish.
(2) A quick glance of the website shows that the website at the very lease has an obvious agenda toward finding negatively slanted conspiracies without verifiable evidence.
(3) Anyone can type a letter and make it sound like it was from the 1700-1800s. Its not that hard to copy the style of the time and use a thesaurus to inflate your vocabulary.
(4) Lots of internet websites simply lie about the stuff they post, especially when (2) is present.
(5) Other sites which use this letter also have a clear agenda, including one that tells us this is ...somehow...proof that freemasons are satanists.
(6) If you look at the supposed "scan" - its not the same thing. This is the most obvious, but I decided to put it last just for fun. For example, in the first site, you clearly see in the letter (although you cant read all the words) the word "because" - which strangely, does not appear in the "translation" for us. This paragraph does appear in the second link. Because the original document is scanned so badly we'll never know if the typed version is accurate. And even if it IS accurate, it would be just as easy to fake it.

As for what I think:

It is one man's opinion on a freemasons opinion of the fraternity. I think the claim that masons have any sort of christian artifacts is simply wishful thinking - much like other similar claims made that were later proven to be historically wrong. It is a Christian freemasons application of the fraternity, and while I disagree with most of it, there are some good points. I do agree that ideally we should strive for a world where we so well govern ourselves that government never has to step in to stop us from doing what we wish to do. Concurrently, I do not claim this is somehow innately secret or a philosophy that needs to be guarded. One need not be a mason to follow masonic teachings.

Is it REAL? I don't know. There is a chance that it could be, but the lack of its presence on anything other than sites with a CLEAR agenda against masonry and similar institutions makes me question its veracity. Especially since everything Jefferson ever wrote is now online, I would expect to find hundreds or thousands of copies of it. At the same time the letter seems reasonable, and it does not make the outrageous claims typical of masonic hoaxes. Of course, it could just be that the person who made it up was knowledgeable on this fact so was careful about the masonic references.

I confess I am not knowledgeable of the lesser known works of history that reference masonry, so I could very well be completely wrong. I'm sure my fellow brethren who are more experienced in these matters can probably shed further light (oh, the irony) on this matter.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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Solid reply Lightindarkness, all your points are well taken. I look forward to hearing your response the actual text.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 08:41 PM
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If you look at the close-up of the document, it's consistent with Jefferson's handwriting. I particularly noted his "of", which is classic Jefferson.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by 123143
 

To Animal: Thanks, I have edited my previous post to put in my full opinion. \


To the above post: Jefferson wrote so much that it would be (and is) extremely easy to copy his style, especially when the scan image is this bad. Also, as much as his writings are analyzed, I'd dare say anyone that has taken a college level course on American history would be able to make a fake that sounds similar in style and grammar. However, I could be wrong - but I am just pointing out that this website is not enough to make me even begin to think it's real - but it could be.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 09:03 PM
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I collect antiquarian books. I have a limited edition multi-volume set of Jefferson's writings. I'll see if I can find it in there. Might take a couple of days. They're leather-bound and in delicate condition. I'll let you know what I find.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 09:08 PM
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It could be a copy of a letter between Jefferson and Adams but it is hard to tell. I mean the letter itself is def. a copy since it is white. But is it an actual letter from Jefferson to Adams about the illuminati? The time period is correct since it is right before Jefferson takes office and Adams leaves and then they are on the outs, for lack of a better word until about 1812? But there are so many letters and documents between the two it would be hard to say without consulting a professional. Does it read Jefferson? Absolutely but as already stated, some one can be familiar with that style of writing and pull it off.

I know there is a book called: The Adams - Jefferson Letters - The Complete Correspondence, I would assume it is in there if it is a real letter from one to the other.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 10:36 PM
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Having looking into it, I don't think there's any doubt in my mind this letter is genuine. I found it in The Jeffersonian Cyclopedia: A Comprehensive Collection of the Views of Thomas Jefferson - the complete text of this book is available on books.google.com.

Read the letter carefully though to make sure it means what you think it means. There is a very interesting article here on atheists.org which references both Jefferson's views on the Illuminati and Freemasonry but also a potted history of freemasonry from an atheist point of view (I've seen worse!).

There is also a section on Jefferson on freemasonry.bcy.ca - a most excellent site - but unfortunately it's being redone right now so you'll have to wait for their input.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 11:19 PM
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I read Abbe Barruel's critique of the illuminati a couple of weeks ago and the details of Jefferson's letter correspond with the contents. I don't know enough to about Jefferson to know whether it is an authentic example of his work - I'm willing to trust Trinityman's opinion on that - but it certainly is an accurate observation of Barruel's work (which is one of those critiques that actually leaves you completely in favour of the thing that is being criticised).

Nice find Animal.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 06:46 AM
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First of all, a thank you to Animal for posting a link to my blogsite, Friends of the American Revolution. The letter was written January 31, 1800 to Jefferson's friend, Bishop James Madison. It is clearly genuine (there is a transcription of it at etext.virginia.edu.../modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=131&division=di v1.

I have posted a postscript to the original page, entitled, Is the Letter Genuine? and this includes a scan of the original draft version of Jefferson's Declaration of Independence so the handwriting can be compared with that of the letter and it is clearly Jefferson's.

Jefferson writes favorably of Wishaupt's [sic] Illuminati and ridicules the hue and cry wipped up by the Reverend Jedediah Morse, so if it is a forgery, it is one that has been made by somebody favorably disposed to freemasonry (lightindarkness himself?).



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by 21stcenturycicero
 


I am willing to trust trinityman's opinion that it is real, and as I said originally - I was not sure either way. I only trust it because its been found at a unbiased source. My opinion of it, however, remains quite the same. It has a few good points...and quite a few bad ones that masonry today would not agree with.

I would also be careful with who you made a freemason. I have no problem with being identified as a member of the fraternity (because I am), but it would at the surface appear as though you made me into a freemason because I questioned the veracity of the document. That has nothing to do with being a freemason, that is simply good scholarship.

[edit on 9-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 10:11 AM
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OK guys what this leads me to is this, which will expose the grandeur of my ignorance but oh well, proof of the Illuminati.

I know that there are supposedly two branches of Illuminati(?)

One was a secret society in the 17th or 18th century and the second is the one that people believe still exists today generally as a ultra-secret society that is leading the progression of the NWO.

So this document is then in fact a reference to the known 17-18th century Illuminati, yes?

If this is the case, my question is there any evidence, other than speculation, that a group known as the Illuminati exists today and is working towards the NWO? I know there is a lot of political and social precedents that show a trend that could be argued to be the NWO, but is there any proof that there is a SS behind this move.

Maybe I should be doing my own research and not asking these questions, and if that is the case just let me know, otherwise I would love to hear what you all think / know on this topic.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 



Lightindarkness, I did not "make you" into a freemason and I did so not because of any adverse comments you may have written about my blogsite but because you clearly identified youself as such when you referred to freemasons as "my brethren".

I was as keen to let my readers know where you were coming from as you were to let your readers know where I am coming from.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
If this is the case, my question is there any evidence, other than speculation, that a group known as the Illuminati exists today and is working towards the NWO? I know there is a lot of political and social precedents that show a trend that could be argued to be the NWO, but is there any proof that there is a SS behind this move.


I am sure that there a members with much better knowledge of this than me but I will share the little that I have.

Using the Bavarian Illuminati model, I would say no. They definately had a wider impact but I do not see anything like them currently existing as a SS. If you consider that the 'mission statement' of the BI was to fill the moral and educational void left by secularisation, then historically they had some success but right now that process is in reversal. If a body called the Illuminati exists today then it does not have the same mission statement, and therefore we need to consider differing forms of 'illumination' or 'enlightenment'. Positive and negative. I can find very few patterns that indicate a move towards collective enlightenment, I find much more that indicates the opposite.

Not sure if that helps.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 07:22 PM
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it is not the answer to the question i was asking, but it is a nice insight into the issue and reveals a new level to me.

the idea that the BV was trying to improve the world, where as the often mentioned present day group is evil and seeks to destroy, dominate, control, or all of these.

Thanks man, and BTW, great name...gotta love freaks like Kilgore Trout



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
it is not the answer to the question i was asking, but it is a nice insight into the issue and reveals a new level to me.

the idea that the BV was trying to improve the world, where as the often mentioned present day group is evil and seeks to destroy, dominate, control, or all of these.


I did get what you were asking but I can't answer it categorically.

I don't think that an Illuminati exists. I cannot find one. I do think certain groups seek to control trade, commerce and economies. I do think certain groups seek to control social development. Either they are doing an incredibly bad job of this OR they are steering us on a path of societal implosion.

If the latter, and a groups exists that is directing our return to the dark ages and serf-dom, then to call themselves the illuminati is a misnomer or a deceit.

I am more inclined towards the former. I think that groups have used social engineering to create financial wealth and economic efficientcy, and, that this has failed, that western society is failing. Everything is going wrong and yet the exploiters wish to maintain their position (the natural order states that they should be taken down) so they are attempting to deflect attention to some mysterious SS or even to existing SS. Just to buy some time. I think much of the scare-mongering Illuminati propaganda is deflection, just as the attacks on Freemasonry and even the Jesuits are.

Just my opinion though.



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