Proof Of Alien And Obelisk On The Moon?? Official Apollo 16 Footage!!

Some of the Apollo hardware and experiments can be viewed in a better context by checking out the panorama QTVRs posted in this thread
You'll need Quicktime to view them, which is available at the links.

Also there's a link to a large repository of .pdf files with lots of detail on various bits of gear used in Apollo and other flights on the same thread.

Originally posted by NeverWalkAlone
I would believe that we never went to the moon if it were not for the small fact that they left a reflective plate up there that scientist from earth can send a signal to and get a reflected response from. They use this to track the distance the moon is from the earth, I saw it done on some show on Discovery.
(unless that was all a show and BS of course)

It's true. It's called a Corner Reflector, but we called them laser reflectors. I actually had an old one we found on a mountain top, but the Apollo version has about 100 or so in a flat carton they can angle to the Earth. Imagine 100 silver dollar size lenses in a flat array. What was cool, is that the back of the crystal was angled such and aluminized so that whatever angle you hit the lens, it is reflected back at the same angle. So the beam, when you shine it from Earth and hit the small array of lenses you can time the delay and get distance. It probably took some time to zero in on that. It is like shining a beam on an ant in the next county. They did find it with powerful lasers from Earth.

They get distance and variation for Apogee and Perogee.

You can't just throw it from a rocket. You have to set it up. Here's a doc on that.

Moon Distance Experiments

ZG

reply to post by ZeroGhost


Though I'm sure that this Moon landing thing wasn't a hoax of galactic proportions, what if someone says that this laser experiment is a hoax? That there is nothing on the Moon and all this is made-up? Is it just NASA scientists who have access to this instrument? After all, the details are given only in the NASA website! Do other scientists use it too?

Cheers!

Is it just NASA scientists who have access to this instrument? After all, the details are given only in the NASA website! Do other scientists use it too?

Anyone with a powerful enough laser can use it. It's just a reflector. The Russians put some up there too, aboard the Lunokhod rovers.
Wiki page

I have read about those laser reflectors and they CANNOT find them! If you send a laser beam up there the actual spot whrer it hits is several metres (i dont remember the exact number) in diameter. Basically they then count the time it takes 'til the laser gets back to earth and measure the distance by that. But in most experiments, they dont even get a signal back.

German Author Gerhard Wisnewski covered this and interviewed some University staff that actually conduct these experiments.

My conclusion is: these reflectors are NO proof for the moon landing to me.

The fact that they are even smaller than other equipment that was left off on the moon (to be never seen again, they don't even know the coordinates of the landing sites) makes me LAUGH

[edit on 9-12-2007 by ilali]

reply to post by SpaceMax


Good! So that's incontrovertible evidence and proof that we did go to the Moon after all! What have the conspiracy theorists have to say to this?

This calls for a beer, what? Cheers!

Edit to add:

Originally posted by ilali
I have read about those laser reflectors and they CANNOT find them! In most experiments, they dont even get a signal back.

My conclusion is: these reflectors are NO proof for the moon landing to me.

ilali, you said that in most experiments, they don't even get a signal back. So in others they do???




[edit on 9-12-2007 by mikesingh]

Originally posted by mikesingh
reply to post by SpaceMax

 

Good! So that's incontrovertible evidence and proof that we did go to the Moon after all! What have the conspiracy theorists have to say to this?

This calls for a beer, what? Cheers!

Edit to add:

Originally posted by ilali
I have read about those laser reflectors and they CANNOT find them! In most experiments, they dont even get a signal back.

My conclusion is: these reflectors are NO proof for the moon landing to me.

ilali, you said that in most experiments, they don't even get a signal back. So in others they do???




[edit on 9-12-2007 by mikesingh]

yup, basically this is what wisnewski says.

The lasers could be bouncing off anything that reflects them, so yes, eventually lightparticles return to earth and are counted as being reflected (by the reflectors, of course )

if you want to read it for yourself:
cgi.ebay.de...

they CANNOT find them

Who is they?
The French observatory noted on the wiki page?
Likewise the American observatory?

And what sort of expertise does this German author bring to this argument?
Besides appearing as a person who has yet to meet a conspiracy theory he can't make a few Euros off of?

Lasers are not just light, they're a specific kind of light with a measurable frequency.
The reflectors are a particular type, designed for a specific purpose. You wouldn't be just parroting
things if you bothered to look up the details.

And no, the retro-reflectors don't unto themselves tell the whole story of how they came to be there, but that line of argument sorta slipped by you didn't it?

Care for a cracker?

That video screams fake to me, the blur effect the "top secret" page shown at the onset of the clip. I think this video is a forgery

Originally posted by mikesingh
reply to post by ZeroGhost

 

Though I'm sure that this Moon landing thing wasn't a hoax of galactic proportions, what if someone says that this laser experiment is a hoax? That there is nothing on the Moon and all this is made-up? Is it just NASA scientists who have access to this instrument? After all, the details are given only in the NASA website! Do other scientists use it too?

Cheers!

Yep, like Spacemax said. Anyone with a sufficiently powerful enough laser, lots of time and a reasonable set of coordinates could find it. You would need a receiving/sensing lens so when bounced back you would know it.

The corner reflector we found was on a tall hill top in the same range as Mt. Hamilton Observatory. In fact just a couple hills over. They had it there for measuring fault creep and rising. It was near the Calaveras fault that is just off the Hayward fault, which is the most active in the continent. Just across the bay from the San Andreas. Probably USGS gear. It was old and weathered nestled in a pile of rocks but dislodged. When you look into it and turn it away you still could see yourself, even when oblique to you. We figured it out pretty quick, being science hippies in the 70's.

The moon reflector array is still there and likely still used.

ZG

So, it looks like the reflective units on the moon could have, and obviously have been placed via unmanned missions.

Returning to topic...

Let's say you end up with some top secret, classified material that you find in your gramp's old army footlocker. What do you do?

I think the answer to many, if not most of these videos and pictures that pop up here and on other sites, can easily be determined real or fake simply in the nature of their presentation. When we are made aware of a top secret video through You Tube, I'm sorry, I can't get excited over that. Anyone with web access and a 3rd grade education could find ATS, Mufon etc. I'm not ruling out the possibility of it ever happening, but I would have to put it as the exception, to the exception, to the norm.

It's too bad that we have reached the technology to literally fake anything, to a point. Pictures, videos, all fall prey. Add some noise, post it on some site that compresses the crap out of it, and wah lah.

I like things that we can follow up on, like the San Diego triangle sighting where they are sending in the raw footage. Hopefully we can get to the source on this video. I've tried to follow it close, so forgive me if I've missed details on that.

some one with a critical mind must absolutly read the "journal text" of the sequence with the 'thing'...

www.hq.nasa.gov...

(www.hq.nasa.gov...)

i'm a poor stupid french guy and i don't understand all niceties of your language but this conversation seems to be strange

170:49:37 England: And we better...
170:49:38 Young: Okay, Charlie, bag 331.
170:49:39 England: ...hustle on back in, we're getting up against it. Bag 331.
170:49:44 Young: Oh, okay.
170:49:49 Duke: We're getting what, Tony?
170:49:50 England: We're getting up against the time limit. We'd like you to get on in.
170:49:56 Duke: Yeah, I'm standing at the footpad ready...
170:49:57 England: That's not a PLSS time limit.
170:49:58 Duke: ...ready to get dusted and get my antenna...(Stops to listen)
170:50:02 Young: Say again?
170:50:04 England: That's not a PLSS time limit. That's in time for getting ready for lift-off.
170:50:11 Duke: Yeah.
170:50:12 Young: Yeah. Understand. (Pause)
170:50:21 England: And, Charlie, I interrupted. What were you saying?
170:50:24 Duke: Kind of looks...(Stops to listen) Oh, I don't remember. (Chuckles)
170:50:35 Young: Boy, Houston, the beauty of this place is absolutely incredible! (Pause)
170:50:47 England: We agree. And there's another spectacular view! The pilot who missed the crater.
170:50:57 Duke: Watch out. Watch out, John.
170:51:01 Young: Yeah.
170:51:02 Duke: To your left is that crater.

reply to post by SpaceMax


Hi,

i referred to they as the scientists he interviewed in his book. I haven't got the book here so i can't give you the names but i think it was someone from University Munich or so.

Nevertheless, what do you personally think about this:

Once the laser beam hits a reflector, scientists at the observatories use sensitive filtering and amplification equipment to detect any return signal. The reflected light is too weak to be seen with the human eye, but under good conditions, one photon -- the fundamental particle of light -- will be received every few seconds.

found at nasa

If a laser emits about 1 x 10^15 photons per second, in my opinion 1 every "few" second coming back COULD be luck.

Your opinion?

Greetings

i think it was someone from University Munich or so

Could explain any reluctance to phone up French astronomers for help...

If a laser emits about 1 x 10^15 photons per second, in my opinion 1 every "few" second coming back COULD be luck.

I imagine it would depend on the output power of the laser. I can't annoy the neighbor a mile or so away with my tiny .03mW laser pointer either.

Despite it's apparent brightness, the Moon is a pretty lousy reflector on it's own. It's albedo is somewhat similar to asphalt. And it's soil has high concentrations of light scattering glass beads and such, along with microfine "stacks" of tiny particles that settle atop one another.

I suspect you could bounce a laser of sufficient power off the moon, provided you had several power plants to devote to the project at one time. And a really, really big honkin laser tube.
And any satellites or space stations in the way...well they'd be toast.
That might tend to upset some despite how fun it would be to give "the man in the moon" a new expression.
(He's had the silly grin for far too long)

If no observatory could find and measure signals bounced off the lunar reflectors, I'd think they would have spoken up by now. They'd write papers and hold conferences and such. If all but one seem to be able to do it, I'd question whether that one was doing it right.

Check out the authors sources out if you can, how much of what he's saying can you verify independently? People trying to pull your leg (or empty your wallet) hate that.

Same goes for anything I'm telling you too.
Why should you take my word for it?


Cheers to you as well-

ok thank you i just want to stay open-minded on the whole thing. one thing i know is that i personally cannot verify the reflector story so i have to read about it and draw conclusions. as soon as i get the book back i will post what he actually stated.

my initial reason to discuss the reflector stuff was that from what i've come across, they can not proof the moon landing.

the only thing that really could convince me were pictures of the left off equipment from eg. this japanese sat. that is up there at the moment.

The moon films appear studio generated with a mistake of a film crew being caught on camera. The space program we are shown by the media is a complete purposeful distraction. They are thousands of years advanced from what is shown to us. I have a friend who is high level engineering clearance at NASA. One night he says" some things I can tell you some things I can't. Did you ever watch Time Tunnel, or Stargate? That stuff is real, right now!" Whether Americans want to face it or not, the technology many of these military and political idiots are handling is way beyond their ethics. It would freak you out to see. I have had working and patient relationships with Black Ops people and they all correlate the same thing, that the world projected by mainstream media is a lie and if you knew the truth, you wouldn't want to get out of bed in the morning because there is little you can do.

Originally posted by jamesder
The flickery effects in the beginning of the video scream fake.

The guy hilariously stepping into the frame to pick up some change on the moon REALLY screams fake. The scenes of Forest Gump meeting important figures of the past looks more authentic.

C'mon now

I have to agree with Jamesder on this one. Could be a commercial for Coke for all we know.

I also believe that with all the advances in technology that if the moon landings were a fake it would be easily detectable by now.

I do believe the moon is mysterious, but whether or not anyone is on it... I do not know.

My favorite stat came from Issac Asmiov who said the possiblity that the moon is the exact size of the sun (proportiently of course) is over a billion to one in the universe. To him it screamed out as a beacon that someone was trying to tell us something. When we became intelligent enough to understand what we were seeing we would be ready for whatever came next. ...I'm still waiting.

Probably some kind of stage prop or something.

I know this may be hard to swallow for those who need hardcore evidence to be informed, but I'll give my two cents anyway (I plan I compiling a thread on what I'm about to say once I have all the documents ready.)

Okay, here goes: My grandfather is Dr. Clarence Jernigan who was the flight surgeon on Apollo 11 and the Quarantine Supervisor for Apollo 12. He worked for NASA for many years. He and my grandma came into town this weekend to see a play my sister was in, and while he was here, I told him about a lot of the moon conspiracy theories floating around. He was aware of most of them.

Anyways, during the Apollo 11 mission, he was in quarantine with the original astronauts for three weeks straight running tests on them to see if they'd contracted any illnesses. There is a famous photo at the NASA space center of the pod the astronauts came home in. Its the first time the pod was being opened, and in the photo you can see my grandfather there standing by the opened pod. He was virtually with these astronauts non-stop for three weeks after that.

When I asked him what he thought of the "fake moon landing" theory, he just laughed. He said that a compound in the moon's soil, when met with oxygen, created a chemical reaction that smelt somewhat like spent gun powder. He went on to say that those mission that did not go to the moon, came back without this scent.

Now, my question is this: How could NASA possibly be so clumsy in so many other aspects of a moon landing conspiracy, but think, "Hey, let's give the astronauts a peculiar scent to make them smell like they've been to the moon" when the only people who'd smell them were my grandfather and those immediately helping after the mission? How would that help cover up a fake mission?

p.s. I'm gonna get "Dark Mission" for my grandfather for Christmas to hear what he thinks of it all. When I do, I'll make sure to post a comprehensive, in-detail thread

[edit on 10-12-2007 by RockAwayRadio]

[edit on 10-12-2007 by RockAwayRadio]

This is one of the most interesting videos I've seen in a while.Why does the video get a wee bit distorted before it happens twice though?