A Theory of Anti-Masons

reply to post by Skyfloating


Excellent points. It is indeed much easier to literally make stuff up and believe you have found some great hidden secret that is somehow hidden from the masses than to argue with logic and reason, and actually learn some philosophy to not form your debate around logical fallacies (such fallacies are not normally even found in the dictionary, they require a higher thought level than that).

reply to post by intrepid


I think you should read it again. Closely. Of course the thread doesn't say that at all, that you want it to say that does not surprise me. What the thread actually says is "Gee, there are quite a few people in here who literally make up stuff and when they are confronted they completely ignore logic and reason. Isn't it interesting that they all seem to use the same tactics and all have similarities. Let's ponder this."

Perhaps it is a secret society of anti-masons - who are you to tell me there isnt? I can come up with anything I want and not have to support it, after all. Perhaps YOU are the Grand Master of the Secret Society of Anti-Masons - a moderator conspiracy! Apparently, conspiracy now means that holding anything to standards of reason and logic is objectionable.

To skyfloating: Uhh, I agree with you. Why would you address this to me? It is apparently the mods who think that even though the preponderance of threads in this forum are about masonry, and even the forum graphic is a square and compass, that it is still somehow odd of me to create a post analyzing the similar tactics that all these threads use.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


What's even more appearent is that you haven't been here long enough to know that I take no sides on the board.

reply to post by intrepid


Or what could be even more apparent is that you can't sense sarcasm.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


What is your general take on conspiracy-theories anyway? Id be curious to know.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by LightinDarkness

 

What is your general take on conspiracy-theories anyway? Id be curious to know.

I won't say that much as it would be way off topic in my own thread. All I'll say is this:

Since everyone loves to quote Pike:

"So, when the equipoise of Reason and Faith, in the individual or the Nation, and the alternating preponderance cease, the result is, according as one or the other is permanent victor, Atheism or Superstition, disbelief or blind credulity; and the Priests either of Unfaith or of Faith become despotic."
- Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma

I find validity in conspiracy theory that is at the equipoise between reason and faith. Reason in that sometimes the world is exactly was we perceive it, and logic shows us that there is nothing hidden. Faith in that occasionally something lurks behind closed doors. I find that, unfortunately, most of the posts about masonry here lean towards the preponderance of faith, and no balance of reason. I argue against those posts, and I always will.

reply to post by LightinDarkness




good answer. I agree...but deep inside I am still open for the possibility that someone will open a bookshelf behind which there is a door behind which there is another door I would have never thought to be there.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I agree completely. For example (back on topic), the post about connections between masonry and mormonism I find to be something that balances between faith and reason, until the thread later gets completely derailed by someone who rabidly attacks masonry and me debunking the anti-mason. I am part of the problem in that thread, but not because I am trying to derail it, I am trying to balance the faith of the anti-mason with reason. Up until that point, that is the type of post I read with interest and I even sometimes agree with. There could indeed be some sort of "conspiracy" between masonry and mormonism, and this is the type of post I would hope to find in this forum and I think we do have them often (including the posts about kindergarden souls, scientology - not just masonic stuff).

This topic was devoted to the unfortunate majority that seems to lean in the opposite direction - and specifically devoted to the mason threads, because I tend to know a little bit more about those. I acknowledge the forum is more than just those threads.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by LightinDarkness


Ah, the rabid anti-mason comes out yet again. Notice that he does not address any of the points that I brought up, he completely ignores them and moves on to more rabid use of logical fallacies and insults. Classical hit and run posting.

lightindarkness, again please look back over my posts, i really have nothing against Freemasons, i do believe there are some slippery slopes in your practices, but that does not make me anti-mason, rabid anti-mason, or hateful. I have to say that every time I try to participate in a thread on the topic of masonry I end up being attacked.

Seriously, I don't hate masons! I have never said I hate masons!

I do have a strong dislike for people who try to pigeon hole me. Yes I have some disagreements with what you are saying and with what some masons on the site say. I disagree with my mother and father on politics and religion, but I still could not love them more.

My Hindu friend will never see his error and switch his faith to Christianity, to assume he would is silly. Sure the subjectivist fallacy does make it seem like it would be easy to wiggle out of nailing anything down as fact, but when you are dealing in terms of objective 'opinions' that is just how it goes.

You call me a rabid-anti-mason but if you really did pay attention to the things i have said in regards to masons I am not anti, i assure you. in other threads i have even conceited that some of my opinions of your organization were wrong...

Edit: In response to the warning from Intrepid and clarification from Duzey, which included a link to this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would like to apologize to anyone and everyone I offended when I made comments on the character of other members of this site. I am no better than anyone else here, and in the majority of cases could learn a lot from the other members. I hope my rude and disrespectful behavior did not do too much damage to anyones day. Lightindarkness, you are at the top of my list, I really hope that I have not truly offended you, you got me going and rather than participating like an adult I went all spoiled child on your @##. Please accept my apology. Salutations, Sam

(I use my real name because this is from the heart).




[edit on 8-12-2007 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal


Thank you for responding without insulting me. The reason why I referred to you as an anti-mason is that - all - of your responses to me have been been some variation of:

"I don't hate masons, but your retarded, and a mason, so I don't like YOU."

The insult varied, but it was always the same. Since you did this time after time, I assumed it was a cloak to look unbiased. I see that you have now done otherwise. You have now shown me your not an anti-mason...not like I expect anyone to care, but since your post was directed at me, I thought I'd answer.

I would however point out that the "slippery slope" is in fact a logical fallacy. Just because the potential of something going downhill exists does not at all lead to the conclusion that it will. There is no reason to believe that one event must invariably follow another, leading to the conclusion that we shouldn't do the original event.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Thanks Lighindarkness point taken, and please look above your last post to see my 'edit' which contains an apology.

Good thread.

Just to add to this, I am quite certain that if ATS-members-who-also-happen-to-be-freemasons left a few of the more wacky posts alone and didn't try to counter everything all the time, some of the more wacky wack jobs would disappear. Descending into the gutter for a slugfest isn't necessarily the right approach IMO. Tempting though it is.

Originally posted by intrepid
What's even more appearent is that you haven't been here long enough to know that I take no sides on the board.

Intrepid has always been a model mod and a beacon of sanity when things sometimes run a little crazy. It's nice to have an opportunity to thank him publicly.

reply to post by Animal


Apology accepted, and thanks - I appreciate it. I welcome discussing various aspects of masonry and other "secret societies" (in quotes because I am unsure if masonry is truly a secret society, but you get the gist) with you in the future.

To Trinityman, you are probably correct that it is unwise to descend into the gutter with some of the posts. I am going to try to ignore such posts in the future (and I hope other reasonable posters do as well), I just hope that all of the many lurkers reading the threads won't take such posts seriously if no one responds to them. My only fear is that if most posters do this, the true few people who actually are anti-masons here will start derailing all the legitimate threads - but we shall see how that turns out.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by Animal


Animal, that was very large gesture you made and I am very impressed with your sincerity. I can only speak for myself, but I am sure other brethern would also oblige, so in the spirit of forgiveness and harmonious discourse please feel free to engage myself and others with any legitmate questions or concerns you may have regarding the 'Craft'.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
I just hope that all of the many lurkers reading the threads won't take such posts seriously if no one responds to them.

I used to be more concerned about this than I am now. I think you'll find that the average ATS member is pretty intelligent and can sort out the wheat from the chaff quite easily.

And as for the pre-pubescent proto-tinfoil brigade who are looking for lifes answers on the internet, nothing you can say will have any effect on them whatsoever. Some people just need to learn through life's experience, which come with time and perspective. Remember - masonic lessons are exactly the same as life's lessons, and neither can be taught to those who are not ready to listen.

Forget about the anti-masons, you should focus on wannabe masons like half the people who post regularly in this forum.

reply to post by DaVillen


Considering how relatively easy it is to become a mason, why would anyone waste their time? Of course I am unsure of who these "fake masons" are, and I'm sure your either going to tell us or just say "they (we?) know who they are"?

My Hindu friend will never see his error and switch his faith to Christianity,

If that statement is not the height of Arrogance
I dont know what is.

reply to post by runningbeer


in my defense I was making a point....my friend from India is actually Muslim and I am Pagan...but you are correct it is the "height of arrogance" that is why I said it...