Satanism involved with shootings.

reply to post by Jim_Kraken


no, one cannot. to do such would be a complete denial of neuro-chemistry and neurology and would replace well established science with ignorant superstitions

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Well, all hail science, then! Since we've sooooo much understood the brain and if we can't see something at the present it doesn't exist....

I don't think that peopel become possessed. They can only be controlled by thier surroundings. Heavy metal and Satan don't effect your social circumstances that much.

I am Schizophrenic, Satan did it.
Your a drug dealer, Satan did it.
People who kill people, Satan told them.

Hardly an excuse.

Your Schizophrenic because you've been threatened too many times to relax.

Your a drug dealer because your making money.

Your killing people because your fighting for a cause, your angry or your suicidal.

reply to post by amanbuthimself


You don't believe in the supernatural???
Have you ever been in a mental ward????
I have, long ago,
and let me tell you, it helped ME believe.
I wasn't even a christian!

Good and evil are quality judgments, just like hot and cold, light and dark, and near and far are quality judgments. Quality judgments are evaluations that we humans make relative to our own experience as human beings. Hot is what is hot to us. Far is what is far to us. Good is what is good to us. Evil is what is bad to us. Good and evil are quality judgments that we make relative to ourselves and our experiences here on Earth. But if good and evil are quality judgments, what's the quantity being judged? And what's the phenomena being quantified?

At a glance I would say that the quantity that good and evil qualify is morality. Good and evil are moral evaluations, so morality is the scale being used to quantify the phenomena. And if morality is a scale we are using to quantify a phenomena, then the phenomena would by definition be human behavior, as morality applies only to human behavior. Or to view it from the other way round, there is a perceived phenomena that we define as human behavior. We measure the range of that behavior using morality as our scale, and we qualify this range of morality as being good or evil depending upon how it effects us experientially. So essentially, then, good and evil are quality judgments passed by ourselves, relative to ourselves, about ourselves.

Some of us are really not going to like this idea: that good and evil are quality judgments passed by us, on us, about how our own behavior effects us. They aren't going to like it because the concept of God is being left out the event. For some reason, many human beings don't wish to admit that when we judge our own behavior as good or evil, that it's really we who are doing the judging. We want to imagine instead, that some divine power outside of ourselves has defined good and evil, and we are simply applying that divine judgment.

Good and evil are relative concepts which have changed over time. Sorry to disappoint anyone.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by amanbuthimself

 

You don't believe in the supernatural???
Have you ever been in a mental ward????
I have, long ago,
and let me tell you, it helped ME believe.
I wasn't even a christian!

This is the type of stereotypical comment which, as a psychologist working in mental wards on a daily basis, angers me. Have you considered the possibility that your venture (interestingly a long time ago and i doubt on a regular basis) into a mental ward and ensuing belief in the supernatural had more to do with your own pathology than anything you saw?

Projection is a wonderful thing.

reply to post by Jim_Kraken


oo...condescension from one espousing an ignorant worldview as if i don't know something they believe to do...

that's something that i've never heard before.

Why is Satanism labeled as the cause or being used as an excuse for all the stupid people?
...

Let me try to rephrase that...

Why is Satanism being used as a scapegoat for stupid people outside ATS? Satanism, true Satanism, is not what the media tries to pass-off as satanism.

Any God fearing people here ever read the Satanic Bible? You probably should, since the best way to defeat your enemy is to know your enemy...

Okay, here we go.

As the Satanic Bible tells you, one does not shed blood. That robs that person the ability to fully enjoy life. A true Satanist would not take the life of another. Period.

Then again, I will grant you the fact that there are probably some movie inspired Satanists who do kill, just as much as there are fanatical Catholics who make bombs and kill as well.

[ originally posted by the titor experience]

This is the type of stereotypical comment which, as a psychologist working in mental wards on a daily basis, angers me.

Are you angry???
I stayed there off and on for 6 months!
My only close friend had 11 personalities!
She would turn into the witch Katrina and she would KNOW EVERY answer to Jeopardy when we watched it in the front room.
She had told me that she had been the victim of satanic ritual abuse.

When my doctor almost KILLED me by overdosing me on lithium and Haldol, I had thrush all the way down my throat and I hallucinated and couldn't walk without assistance.
I didn't know much of ANYTHING for 8 days!
That's when my friend left and stole lots of stuff from me, including my new Stephen King book.

They told my mom to get over it and join a support group. The only person that could change my regimine was me because I had signed myself in!
My step-dad came in there and threatened them with a shot gun if they didn't take me off the meds. They did and I woke up asking my mom what is going on?

We had ladies there who saw demon faces EVERYWHERE.

We had guys that you could tell had an evil spirit.



I am NOT being condescending, I was EVERY bit as messed up as most people in there.

I even attacked my mom and broke a bone of hers before that. (leg or an arm, I can't remember)

[edit on 8-12-2007 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Clearskies

[ originally posted by the titor experience]

This is the type of stereotypical comment which, as a psychologist working in mental wards on a daily basis, angers me.

Are you angry???
I stayed there off and on for 6 months!
My only close friend had 11 personalities!
She would turn into the witch Katrina and she would KNOW EVERY answer to Jeopardy when we watched it in the front room.
She had told me that she had been the victim of satanic ritual abuse.

When my doctor almost KILLED me by overdosing me on lithium and Haldol, I had thrush all the way down my throat and I hallucinated and couldn't walk without assistance.
I didn't know much of ANYTHING for 8 days!
That's when my friend left and stole lots of stuff from me, including my new Stephen King book.

They told my mom to get over it and join a support group. The only person that could change my regimine was me because I had signed myself in!
My step-dad came in there and threatened them with a shot gun if they didn't take me off the meds. They did and I woke up asking my mom what is going on?

We had ladies there who saw demon faces EVERYWHERE.

We had guys that you could tell had an evil spirit.



I am NOT being condescending, I was EVERY bit as messed up as most people in there.

I even attacked my mom and broke a bone of hers before that. (leg or an arm, I can't remember)

[edit on 8-12-2007 by Clearskies]

Firstly, i am a psychologist and am not a big supporter of dosing people up with drugs. I am sorry to hear of your psychiatrists incompetence.

You have said nothing to me which provides any evidence to support defined parameters of the concepts of "good" and "evil", or a spirit world for that matter. Your friends 11 personalities - this is known as Dissociative Identity Disorder. Your behaviour towards your mother was not "good" or "evil" as much as you may like to think it was.

What we know today is that mental illness is actually a secondary symptom of some type of trauma suffered in ones life - it is a defence mechanism which peoples minds have pereceived as necessary to survive. The range of traumas is broad and differs for many people.

I get the feeling the notion of good and evil helps you feel better to explain the things you saw and to this i am sympathetic - i can understand ones inclination to do so as their is a certain amount of comfort in it.

But the reality is that some people experience so much trauma, with so many learned defence mechanisms used to protect themselves from that trauma - that there is NO coming back from it and leading a functional life. Unfortunately many people decide to label such unfortunates as evil - it is simplistic and really just a way of making yourself feel better.

I'm going along with the above. Psychology has made great strives in demonic possession, to the point where even the Catholic Church enlists psychologists to determine if a possession is a possession, or just a mental distubance.

Besides, there are three Church determined factors which determine if a possession is real or not: the speaking of languages unknown to the victim, visible pain and physical reaction to holy or religious items, and levitation. Without these, the Church does not, and will not, clssify something as possession.

reply to post by the titor experience



It was my OWN sins that got me in that position.
I had been through bad stuff before that, but not until the age of accountability did I start the slippery slope downwards.

What compounded my hateful life was not even having a CLUE about who 'up there' was in charge.
Aliens?
higher being scientists?( I didn't know!)

Not EVERYONE there was demon possessed, but, many were tormented and some flat-out enjoyed their spiritual possession.(the ones you couldn't talk to)

I am fine now, I don't have to blame ANYONE.
What really fuels me is to help those in the clutches of sin and speak the truth with love.

After I became a christian, some people didn't even recognize me!
However one older lady who was a friend of mine was still on depacote and MANY others.
I kept telling her to tell her doctor that that was too much, but, she died.

I had MANY psychologists before I had a psychiatrist, but, none of them helped me for very long. I even had a christian psychologist who NEVER said ONE word about God or Jesus!

The night I asked Jesus to forgive me in 1993, HE HEALED me 100 % I didn't need a group or a 12 step program or a nicotine patch!!!
I didn't even have much faith in God AT ALL when I asked!
But, Whoosh!
It ALL changed! Immediately.
I quit my SSI and got a job and quit smoking and drugs and I walked on air for three days! I didn't even eat. When I talked to my sister later about it, she said " you got saved!" I didn't even know what that meant.

It's been 15 years since then. Time is getting shorter.
There are things that are higher than man.

I've only gotten closer to Jeshua since then.

I am not making light of your situation when I say this, but...

"there are no athiests in a foxhole".

Granted, you may not have believed in anything when you asked, but something did happen, something that made you open your eyes, and if it was mental or spiritual, what happened was for the better. You got better.

And if you are able to take those experiences and help others, or at least try to make a difference for them, then more power to you!

--"organized" Satanic ritual abuse homicide: two or more Satanic cult members conspiring to commit murder

--"The victim thought he was involved in one level of activity and became an unwilling participant in another"




There is no question that Columbine's infamous trenchcoat mafia(TCM) was heavily involved with the occult. This aspect was completely ignored by both the media and the police investigators.


1) TCMer Eric Dutro walking around the school cafeteria telling people that "Satan loves you"(Kelly Beer, 6106) in the spring of '98.

2) Courtney van Dell, aka 'devil girl,' wore barettes in her hair to make it look like she had horns. Said to be a 'wikken'(sic) or a devil worshipper(Kristi Mohrbacher(1010), Jessica Lucero(1508 ), Leigh Ann Clark(2723)).

3) The students seeking shelter with Clement Park worker Steve Ogle(1056) told him the perpetrators were TCM and were "satanists".

4) Jecoa Catt(1364) told IO that the TCM were satanic.

5) Jason Jones(1474) observed the TCM playing 'magic' cards in the cafeteria, which were about the devil and about power.

6) Lacey Shotts(1651) said she believed the TCM students were 'devil worshippers.'

7) Jen Smull saw Robert Perry at a halloween party dressed as a worlock(1827).

8 ) Student Perlman(4054) said Joe Stair used to come to woodshop class with a book he called 'the devil's bible'.

9) Prior to 4th hour on 4-20, Nicole Ray(4144) saw a male TCMer in the science hall, with his hair fashioned ino devil's horns.

10) TCM associate Nathan Dykeman's bedroom wall was supposedly covered with devil posters(4630).

11) Nathan Dykeman says Harris called him 'devil man'.(10710)

12) Daniel Burg(5838 ) told the IO that "...the TCM--they're like satanists."

13) TCM leader Chris Morris told Mark Hengel(5899) "I don't believe in God. I follow Satan's Commandmants."

14) Sara Lutes(6821) says the TCM were satanic, and that they wore satanic symbols on their shirts, underneath their trenchcoats.

15) Chris Hooker, 18, said they were "satanic individuals."
"We'd see them every day. They've threatened to kill people ... but nobody thought that was serious," Hooker said.

16) Library Intern Mary Ziccardi(13647) spent one week at CHS in November of '98. Says Eric Harris "looked like the devil" and may have worn black lipstick.

17) Teacher Mr. Long(EP24-17) said he kicked TCM associate Joe Stair out the computer class for accessing satanic sights. This happened last year.(1998)

18 ) TCM associate Eric Ault(10645) told the IOs that "they were into satanic worship."

19) Jennfer Harmon(8835): "...one of their friends-'Becka'-was waiting for the devil to take over the soul."

20) Brooks Brown(USAToday.com): "They're(TCM) all big on anti-God Satanism. They are really just 'pure hate'."

21) What kind of music did the TCM like? 'Devil' music according to Brandi Wiseman(4751).

22) Trista Fogerty(1420): TCM were satanic, when she first got to CHS friends told her to avoid the group.

23) Nicole Markham(8794): "Harris was into...heavy satanic music."

24) Nicole Lawson, sophomore(3526): (TCM associates)"Stephanie(Kinny) and Kelly(Schwab) would draw "fnords" on the black board. Fnords are little symbols that were servants of the devil. They would draw a whole bunch of them. They did it when no one was looking." ['fnord' is thought to stand for 'for no other reason, discord']

25) TCM associate Chuckie Phillips(10866) internet code(Puterfnord@...) name was meant to represent a servant of the devil.


26) Dustin Harrison(6577): "Dustin said (Redacted) 'scared me to death' because Dustin had heard that (Redacted) was a member of the "Hells Angels" satanic group and said that this satanic group is into human sacrifices. Dustin said that (Redacted) was very verbal about his desire to kill people."


===================

Also this…


--4-21-99
A 36-year-old Indiana man with an interest in satanism was indicted Tuesday on charges of burning 10 churches in Indiana and Georgia, including one in which a volunteer firefighter died, the National Church Arson Task Force announced. It was the largest number of fires charged to one individual during the task force's nearly 3-year-old investigation, said Treasury Undersecretary James Johnson, the task force co-chairman. The task force has opened investigations of 752 church fires, bombings or attempted bombings and has charged 331 individuals in 249 of those attacks. AP


[edit on 9-12-2007 by starviego]

Starviego,
That is the kind of info I'm talking about!
When somebody kills someone in the name of their religion and they're christian.
(O.K., it doesn't happen very often) Or muslim, That is ALL you will hear about from the media!

His christianity.(or muslimicity)

But, not one word much on the faiths of these demonized persons, unless you dig it up.

They mass-murderered.

What if there were others involved.

About six month before Columbine, on November 14, 1998, five students at Burlington High School, Burlington, Wisconsin(some 30 miles southwest of Milwaukee), all boys aged 15 and 16, were arrested for conspiracy to commit murder. They had concocted an elaborate plan to attack the school and massacre their classmates the next day, Monday the 15nth.

In many ways, they formed a clique that was amazingly similar to Columbine's Trenchcoat Mafia.

They called themselves "The Gothics'' and dressed in distinctive "Goth" style. The boys cultivated a satanic* image. They "kind of wanted people to be afraid of them," freshman John Janowski said. "They didn't communicate with the normal-type people. They're more in their own devil-worshiping type of world." Another student said the boys dressed weird and kept to themselves.

Classmates said the suspects dressed in black, wore black nail polish, listened to music by Marilyn Manson and Metallica and were sometimes mocked as "freaks" and devil worshippers.

"When he started talking about cutting dogs open and seeing what they're made of, seeing what it'd be like to see an actual animal die... It's just, you know, that's nothing I want my daughter to be with," said a mother of a girlfriend of one of the youths.


------------------------------

* For what its worth, the school mascot is a horned devil figure, and the school team name is the "Demons." Check out this link for a pic: burlingtonhs.basd.k12.wi.us...



[edit on 9-12-2007 by starviego]

Blaming Satanism for Columbine (or any other similar tragedy) Is no different from blaming things on Christianity, Muslims, or bloody trenchcoats. Its the zealous or unstable individuals at fault here, not the particular brand of faith they subscribe to.

reply to post by CalebTN


caleb you are soo funny you are actually stating exactly what a christian believes... sure you aren't one??? Christians believe that man is not originally good... God Makes us good he saves us from our evil and selfishness that we cannot escape on our own... again something that was brought on from satan.. If it's not holy or good then it is not from God... Satan wants to bring up destruction, hurt, pain and hate... That is satan.. therefore it is safe to say that these shootings and this chaos is brought out from the influence of evil on someone that is hurting and suffering in this satanic world and does not have christ living inside of them. Amen

I remember downloading a vid from conspiracy central about the effect of music on the colombine killers and they carried out their assasinations in accordance with the lyrics to a rammenstein song called red welts on white flesh. Now ive had a long interest in music/backmasking/subliminals etc and ill tell you what, that tune was almost hypnotic, i could not get it out of my head for days having only listened to a snippet. I do believe the devil can work through this medium (he was an angel of music) and that it is dangerous

reply to post by jammybunn


that is a ridiculous argument.
the only reason you couldn't stop listening to it was due to how good the band is. they're wonderful musicians.

anyway, why does metal get the label of evil? what about jazz? it has quite the messed up history. so does blues.

anyway, point being that this entire thread is stupid.
it rests on assumptions... primarily that whole "the devil exists" thing.