Questions For Chemtrail Believers

As some of you already know I am a firm believer that chemtrails are just standard run of the mill contrails and nothing much more than water vapour and exhaust from aircraft. From a proffesional point of view (I work in Australian Bureau of Meteorology for those of you who do not know) using my knowledge of the weather I know that there are many factors that make the whole chemtrail debate unplausible. I have posted a number of questions for chemtrail believers to answer to convince me that chemtrails are real. Those who agree with my point of view please feel free to add any questions that I have missed. So here they are

Why does water vapour or contrails rapidly dissipate in the upper air levels while chemtrails stay and spread out? Isnt cirrus cloud just water? Why does cirrus cloud stay up in the air for so long but aircraft exhaust doesnt?

How many chemtrail believers know what a cirrostratus cloud is and what heights they exist at?

Why does the jetstream, where winds of 200knots exist, not affect chemtrails? Many of you claim to get sick after spotting chem/contrails above your houses or cities yet, in reality any chemicals sprayed over you would land thousands of kilometeres away (f by some miracle they did reach the ground)

Why would they spray chemicals in an environment where it is so cold that almost everything freezes?

Why is it that many chemtrail believers (mostly younger ones) claim that chemtrails have only recently existed when there is photographic evidence of them from the second world war?

And finally, if you chemtrail believers are so worried that you government is poisoning you, why have you not yet invested in gas mask or bio hazard suit that you can wear outdoors to protect yourself?



I will post some more questions soon, but have fun with these in the meantime


[edit on 7/12/2007 by OzWeatherman]

Ok, c'mon

I know there are a lot of you out there that will want to answer these questions. Have a go chemtrailers. I want to see if you can prove that chemtrails exist

I want you to prove that they don't exist and I hope they don't.

Anyway, being open-minded I'll reply to your questions.



Why does water vapour or contrails rapidly dissipate in the upper air levels while chemtrails stay and spread out? Isnt cirrus cloud just water? Why does cirrus cloud stay up in the air for so long but aircraft exhaust doesnt?

Ask an aviation enthusiast. Not my department

How many chemtrail believers know what a cirrostratus cloud is and what heights they exist at?

No I don't.

Why does the jetstream, where winds of 200knots exist, not affect chemtrails?

Well I've never said anything about feeling sick and I don't even post about them. Question for you: Would you think that if they did exist that they would target individuals - it's a wide-spread thing so it doesn't matter.

Why would they spray chemicals in an environment where it is so cold that almost everything freezes?

If I was to believe you I would say well you said almost and then proceed to comment. Without being an expert I'll say that there's too many counter arguments. Do humans freeze at 'average' altitudes?

Why is it that many chemtrail believers (mostly younger ones) claim that chemtrails have only recently existed when there is photographic evidence of them from the second world war?

I don't know. I also didn't know but I did also know that they have been around for at least a decade (trails that stay that is - just for open mindedness). Aviation 'methods' and fuels have probably changed since then - a counter arguement.

And finally, if you chemtrail believers are so worried that you government is poisoning you, why have you not yet invested in gas mask or bio hazard suit that you can wear outdoors to protect yourself?

Practicality. I want to live life and be un-restricted and be 'normal'. Living in a city and not being a driver I often consider buying peices that will cover the mouth (and nose?)

Originally posted by amanbuthimself

Why does water vapour or contrails rapidly dissipate in the upper air levels while chemtrails stay and spread out? Isnt cirrus cloud just water? Why does cirrus cloud stay up in the air for so long but aircraft exhaust doesnt?

Ask an aviation enthusiast. Not my department

Or ask a meteorologist

But both aviation experts and meteorologists are either blinded by ignorance or else all part of the conspiracy, so we can't believe anything they say. The only people who know the truth are chemtrail believers

How many chemtrail believers know what a cirrostratus cloud is and what heights they exist at?

No I don't.

So you wouldn't know if what your seeing could be a chemtrail or not.

Why does the jetstream, where winds of 200knots exist, not affect chemtrails?

Well I've never said anything about feeling sick and I don't even post about them. Question for you: Would you think that if they did exist that they would target individuals - it's a wide-spread thing so it doesn't matter.

The question was based on allegation made by some chemtrail believers. Presumably you don't believe them when they say overhead chemtrails make them ill?

Why would they spray chemicals in an environment where it is so cold that almost everything freezes?

If I was to believe you I would say well you said almost and then proceed to comment. Without being an expert I'll say that there's too many counter arguments. Do humans freeze at 'average' altitudes?

Yes, humans do freeze at altitudes of 30,000ft and temperature of -60c

Why is it that many chemtrail believers (mostly younger ones) claim that chemtrails have only recently existed when there is photographic evidence of them from the second world war?

I don't know. I also didn't know but I did also know that they have been around for at least a decade (trails that stay that is - just for open mindedness). Aviation 'methods' and fuels have probably changed since then - a counter arguement.

The effects of persistent aircraft contrails spreading into sheets of cirrostratus - what believers use as evidence of chemtrails - have been the subject of study since at least the early 1970s. The one thing we can say with absolute certainty is that the phenomena commonly ascribed as chemtrail activity has been around for many decades


In order to prove the existence of chemtrails, it would be useful to disprove the meteorlogical explanation. No-one has managed to do this, nor explain why these are not chemtrails, despite looking an behaving exactly the way chemtrails are supposed to look and behave

Grid pattern (visible bottom of picture)



Contrails spreading out and (apparently) falling to ground



Contrails persisteing and spreading out to blanket the sky

there are two types of "trails" that we see in the sky. one is regular water vapor emitted from jet planes at high altitudes. the other is aqueous barium salt which is emitted from airplanes as part of the secretive US navy RFMP or, radio frequency mission planner program. By providing an extremely interactive and visual (television type radar screens) environment, the RFMP system allows the computer operator to develop familiarity with the “Radio Frequency” environment before a battlefield war mission occurs by playing a variety of “what-if” virtual warfare scenarios on his computer screen. Since all major modes of Radio Frequency propagation are modeled in his computer (RFMP system), special, sometimes counter-intuitive cases can be examined in detail and exploited during a warfare battle mission. the chemtrails we see provide depth for the satellites to read and translate that depth into a 3d visualization.

reply to post by specialfarce


LOL

Can you please provide your source of this and the proof?

reply to post by amanbuthimself

If I was to believe you I would say well you said almost and then proceed to comment. Without being an expert I'll say that there's too many counter arguments. Do humans freeze at 'average' altitudes?

Taken by me recently when it was NEGATIVE degrees out. That sat there for God knows how long. For a very long time, because it was just so darn cold outside. Oh and the air was very crisp. Nothing was falling down upon me as I stood there and breathed the clean, clear air.

It was created pretty low, as we had some jets do fly overs, over base housing.





[edit on 9-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

What I do know is that I personally watched two low flying aircraft paint a tic tac toe board in the sky by flying back and forth for over an hour while I sat at the park watching them.

It lasted for a very long time.

I once also stated that I have yet to see anything about the logistics of this happening ( ground crews, stockpiles of chemicals, etc. )
How many gallons of a liquid would it take to make one of these trails ?
Imagine the dissipation that would take place from altitude - - nothing of any consequence would ever make it to the ground.

Mabye the goal isn't for it to make it to the ground.

That opens up other possibilities like cloud seeding, etc,,,,but it wasn't like that, what I observed.

it's rather common knowledge

www.nutech2000.com...

reply to post by specialfarce

very interesting stuff on that linked page, ima gonna have to read it in detail.

Today, while i was out riding my mc, it was a typical central cal day. It as a little smoggy, but there wasnt a cloud in the sky. I wish i had had my camera with me, because I most certainly saw one today.

There were several commercial aircraft(6-7) visible in the skies over head leaving contrails, and I know what a contrail is. Planes in the same corridor were leaving trails consistent with each other.

There was one aicraft, west of me headed south, just like the 3 other planes headed to LA, leaving a pretty typical contrail. I would say that they were 25-30,000' up, they were not as high up as the other aircraft, headed in the same direction.

Well, it did something wierd it turned east ,in a pretty sharp turn. A turn you wont find a passenger aicraft doing very often. It most certainly was tight enough and they were going fast enough that the plane would have been banking pretty heavily. Nothing ever makes a turn in that direction, there is absolutly nothing east of here till colorado or utah.

it turned east and was about 80 miles away, still with a consistant
contrail, it was narrow like an aircraft with 2 engines, as it traveled its contrail started whitish and opaque and diffused rapidly to a whispy traslucent "cloud", just like all the other aircraft in the skys at the same time.
After it completed its hard turn to the left(east), it started "spraying".
It was unmistakable, what was this narrow wispy "contrail"
turned on and turned into a broad swath of vapors. There were 4 distinct "trails" that left a silvery white cloud behind that persisted far longer than the contrail it left up to that point.
I have seen a lot of aerial spraying of different types, from all sort of firefighting rigs, to crop dusters and aerial seeding opperations, large scale spraying for foreign insect pests.
And what i saw today was with out doubt a spraying operation. It would turn on and they would spray for about a minute, stop for a minute or two, start spraying again, repeat, they did it 3 times. And you could almost see the spray cloud start to settle out then the dissipated after about ten minutes, while the other contrails and their own persisted.
After they stopped spraying the contrail went back to what it was before and the plane continued due east over the mountains.
That plane definately discharged something into the air, about a 1/2hr later as i got closer to town the sky seemed almost veiled in ghostly clouds. It was very strange, with my polarized visor down i could just barely make the out. With my visor up it was just a hazy day.
I have now seen two separate high altitude spraying operations, a couple years apart, but with similarities. They both had the same course and almost the same track. They were both the same time of day.
I'm of th opinion that many chemtrail reports are just mis-identified
contrails, but what i saw today made me rethink the whole idea.

Originally posted by punkinworks
reply to post by specialfarce

 

And what i saw today was with out doubt a spraying operation. It would turn on and they would spray for about a minute, stop for a minute or two, start spraying again, repeat, they did it 3 times. And you could almost see the spray cloud start to settle out then the dissipated after about ten minutes, while the other contrails and their own persisted.

I have seen that before but I am pretty sure it is just a contrail. I work in the weather profession so I might have a look and see if I can find out why that would happen. Thanks for posting that though, very interesting

reply to post by JustTheFacts


Thanks for that, you just made another excellent point. If they were going to spray a large area, the quantity of the chemical would be a ridiculously huge amount

reply to post by punkinworks


I can't say for certain because I didn't witness it myself, but what you described about that plane that went out of the normal flight path seemed like a fuel dumping/burning manoeuvre. You see, while most planes will carry just the right amount of fuel for its flight, sometimes conditions such as a strong tailwind will increase the aircraft's ground speed, subsequently making it arrive to its destination earlier than normal. This also tends to leave more fuel on board than it was calculated for at takeoff.

What's worth noting is that a craft's maximum landing weight must be lower than its takeoff weight. If it's higher than the maximum by the time it reaches it's destination, the pilot must remove this excess weight either by going around in circles over a certain area to burn off the excess fuel, or by dumping the fuel directly. Sometimes it's a combination of both. The reason why there is a maximum landing weight is structural -- if it's too high, the landing gear might not support the weight of the craft as it lands.

Originally posted by amanbuthimself
I want you to prove that they don't exist and I hope they don't.

Anyway, being open-minded I'll reply to your questions.



Why does water vapour or contrails rapidly dissipate in the upper air levels while chemtrails stay and spread out? Isnt cirrus cloud just water? Why does cirrus cloud stay up in the air for so long but aircraft exhaust doesnt?

Ask an aviation enthusiast. Not my department

Exactly. I on the other hand am a professional (sorry if that sounds conceited) so I know why it happens

How many chemtrail believers know what a cirrostratus cloud is and what heights they exist at?

No I don't.

Again, exactly, and not very many other chemtrailers do either, but apparently "knowledge" doesn't count towards anything on this topic

Why does the jetstream, where winds of 200knots exist, not affect chemtrails?

Well I've never said anything about feeling sick and I don't even post about them. Question for you: Would you think that if they did exist that they would target individuals - it's a wide-spread thing so it doesn't matter.

I know you didn't post that, but there are many that have claimed to have seen planes spray chemtrails and then feel sick afterwards. Hmmm, sounds like false information to me

Why would they spray chemicals in an environment where it is so cold that almost everything freezes?

If I was to believe you I would say well you said almost and then proceed to comment. Without being an expert I'll say that there's too many counter arguments. Do humans freeze at 'average' altitudes?

Yes, they do. Go stand in the northern states of canada or central antarctica if you dont believe me. And at 30,00ft where contrails/ chemtrails are seen, and the temperature is around -60 degrees celsius, death from extreme exposure is imminent

Why is it that many chemtrail believers (mostly younger ones) claim that chemtrails have only recently existed when there is photographic evidence of them from the second world war?

I don't know. I also didn't know but I did also know that they have been around for at least a decade (trails that stay that is - just for open mindedness). Aviation 'methods' and fuels have probably changed since then - a counter arguement.

Aviation methods have changed? Wouldnt make a difference, exhaust is still going to freeze at such a great height

And finally, if you chemtrail believers are so worried that you government is poisoning you, why have you not yet invested in gas mask or bio hazard suit that you can wear outdoors to protect yourself?

Practicality. I want to live life and be un-restricted and be 'normal'. Living in a city and not being a driver I often consider buying peices that will
cover the mouth (and nose)

Please do buy one and please send pictures

Why has there been almost 300 views but less than 20 replies?

Only one chemtrail person has attempted to answer the questions I put forward. Is that because u other chemtrailers cant answer them?

C'mon give it a go people

first of all, im a firm believer that nobody really knows whether chemtrails/contrails are legit or not, but I am certainly more open to the idea, than closed to it.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Why does water vapour or contrails rapidly dissipate in the upper air levels while chemtrails stay and spread out? Isnt cirrus cloud just water? Why does cirrus cloud stay up in the air for so long but aircraft exhaust doesnt?

well, that would depend on what is actually making up the "chemtrail." If it's water, than it would act the same as contrail... but really, why even call it a chemtrail at that point? I'm not a biology major or anything, but I think it has to do with humidity, elevation, etc.

Why would they spray chemicals in an environment where it is so cold that almost everything freezes?

you seem to be assuming what a chemtrail is. One of the explanations I give credit to, is that chemtrails are actually large streams of powdered aluminum. Obviously, that isn't going to freeze.

Why is it that many chemtrail believers (mostly younger ones) claim that chemtrails have only recently existed when there is photographic evidence of them from the second world war?

more assumptions (mostly younger ones)? Photographic evidence of chemtrails from WW2? I thought you were making a case against chemtrails, not for them...

And finally, if you chemtrail believers are so worried that you government is poisoning you, why have you not yet invested in gas mask or bio hazard suit that you can wear outdoors to protect yourself?

speak for yourself. I have more than one gas mask, and a full carbon-lined MOPP suit in case the snot really hits the fan. None of that has anything to do with chemtrails though, im more worried about a domestic bio-terror attack.

I will post some more questions soon, but have fun with these in the meantime

im afraid our definitions of fun differ greatly.

My latest addition to the Chemhoax:

Special chem-pods filmed while hanging below the wings of B-52 & B-29 bombers, as well as pilots who have to wear special protective suits to work on them:


I didn’t think they could fit that chem stuff and spraying equipment into an X-plane, but who knew?


[edit on 12/13/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by scientist
first of all, im a firm believer that nobody really knows whether you seem to be assuming what a chemtrail is. One of the explanations I give credit to, is that chemtrails are actually large streams of powdered aluminum. Obviously, that isn't going to freeze.

Ok, so streams of aluminium gradually expand at temperatures of around -60 degrees celsius and then spread over the sky? Seems extremely unplausible for that to happen.

I am not assuming what a chemtrail is becuase they dont exist, they are contrails....nothing more than hot aircraft exhaust being pumped into an ultra cool environment.

Also, why did you neglect the answer the question about the jetstream winds? Seems like you didn't have an answer for that one did you