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Muhammad - Prophet or Profiteer of God?

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posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Kacen

Originally posted by kangjia57
I agree!They did mess up a few things up.

The real way to punish homosexuals according to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is to drop them off a mountain top.

My jaw just dropped…

I have gay friends, my two closest friends are lesbians, you really believe in killing them?

Don’t you think the fact that in such countries where it’s punishable by death, the fact that homosexuals still exists shows it may not be a choice?

In Palestine homosexuals sometimes are forced to escape to Israel out of fear of death! That shows something…

Yes it show's that Islam is an unforgiving religion, that is unchanged for 1500 years. How it applies to the modern world i simply have yet to fathom.

I also have 2 friends who are gay, they are both real nice guys who wouldnt harm a fly. Can you imagine if there was a gay rally demonstrating against Muslims or calling for their death?

Im sure that would go down well. But as per usual when the shoe is on the other foot Muslims tend to take the high road quoting from their all powerful book.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:13 PM
I'm sorry, but there is no punishment prescribed for homosexuality either in the Quran or the Hadith. While Muhammad certainly condemned homosexual sex, he did not give any punishment for it.

The only thing I can find about this 'dropping off a cliff' was the ruling that an Iranian judge gave for a man convicted of raping and killing his nephew. This was the Judge's own ruling, and had nothing to do with any Islamic injunction.

The sharia, derived from those (man-made) schools of thought, of course, has ideas: The Hanafi school of thought says that the punishment is harsh beatings, and if they still persist in the act, then death. The Shafi`i school of thought treats it the same as adultery. Another school of thought suggests death by burning. Taliban, as I mentioned, call for death by wall-crushing.

These rulings, of course, have nothing to do with the Quran or the Hadith, which was my point. It is like (for example), when people claim that the Pope is evil, because he prohibits the use of condoms, thus causing much misery, and overpopulation, and teenage births and STDs, etc. They fail to mention that the Pope also condemns adultery and sex outside of marriage, which if people would listen to, there would be a lot less of those problems. You can't blame the Pope for something people are misinterpreting.

EDIT: As I suspected, the 'dropping from a cliff' thing came much later. Some school of thought decided on dropping the offenders off the tallest building, and then stoning. Then when no tall buildings were to be found, it was changed to cliff.

[edit on 6-12-2007 by babloyi]

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:24 PM
Some quotations from the "Hadith" which I want clarified:

"Women are twin-halves of men."

Hard to figure out what this means...

`Kay, the following is not a quote, but something from the wiki article...any comments?

The hadith Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171 says: "Do not write down anything of me except the Qur'an. Whoever writes other than that should delete it." Some have interpreted this as the Hadith should never have been written. Companions used memory in the early time to transfer Hadith.

If I find more I'll ether edit this post or make another post...

Originally posted by kangjia57Nope outlawing other religions is not Islamic.Other religions are allowed to exist within Muslim countries.And they should also be treated as first class citizen.

Wait, doesn't this somewhat contradict...

Originally posted by kangjia57After enforcing Islamic law, everyone under it has to abide by it Muslim or not Muslim. And if non-Muslims don’t like it than they should leave the country.Like i live in UK and according to Islam i follow the rules nad laws of this country.

Can't that in turn effect freedom of religion, thus negating the previous quote?

And you make an analogy with the UK, which is weird, the UK allows freedom to practice -any- religion...wouldn't it be fair, in turn, for Muslim countries to do the same?

Imagine if Britain was still under Christian law, you yourself could be killed for your beliefs! But they had the kindness to make freedom of religion many years ago.

Look at it from that point of view, and you might understand.

In your opinion, what would be done to me, a pagan, who does not try to convert people, in a Muslim country that was run the way you personally want it to be run?

Ugh reading your posts over and over I realize your somewhat hypocritical and/or confusing, or I misunderstand you.

(I reposted this in case anyone missed the edit of my previous post on the former page, hope no one minds)

[edit on 12/6/2007 by Kacen]

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:33 PM
reply to post by Kacen

No idea about the first one. Can you provide a reference? As for the second, I'm sorry, but I don't have the Musnad of Ahmad with me at home, and I can't find any collection on the net. Probably not surprising, as it is not really considered the most trustworthy source. No idea of the meaning (or even authenticity) of that Hadith.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:37 PM
The defination of God is changing everywhere...
be it Jesus or Mohammed or Ram...

The religions still holds some beliefs of their age...
I think all religions needs some correction... the main teachers for their religion should sit together and reform their religions...

let me ask you a question... if today Jesus or Mohammed or Ram come to earth and do all miracle will anybody believe in them... will they bw called God? I think no because people are more sceptical now... or educated?

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:40 PM

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Kacen

No idea about the first one. Can you provide a reference? As for the second, I'm sorry, but I don't have the Musnad of Ahmad with me at home, and I can't find any collection on the net. Probably not surprising, as it is not really considered the most trustworthy source. No idea of the meaning (or even authenticity) of that Hadith.

I got it from the Wikipedia article on the Hadith.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:42 PM

I am a prophet, anyone can claim to be a prophet,

No I don't believe he was a prophet, and I don't believe there is an Allah, or hell.

Only this stinkin earth we have managed to turn into a hell of sorts,

Get a grip my friends, stop blaming everything on the gods, WE SUCK.

I apologize.

We made up all this God says so stuff up in our own wittle minds, we're SICK,

I apologize again>

[edit on 123131p://bThursday2007 by Stormdancer777]

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:45 PM
reply to post by Kacen

Kacen that's a large brick wall you have there,

May I beat my head up against it?

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Kacen

Kacen that's a large brick wall you have there,

May I beat my head up against it?

Thats cus of communicator's avatar stretching the page...

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 12:48 PM
I know love, I was making a funny.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 02:25 PM
reply to post by Odium

I see a big difference. One man is starving enough and poor enough that stealing a load of bread to survive is all he can consider, despite knowing the 'law'. The other 2 men are thieves who are stealing another persons property for greed and selfish reasons.

I see a very big difference.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 02:33 PM
In the Koran, Jews are damned by Allah, and Christians are told that faith in Christ as God incarnate is "blasphemy"... but the same Koran praises and recommends the Torah and the Gospel of Jesus, which is a contradiction.

Look, here's where i stand on the whole thing: First of all, right off the bat, Muslims are simply too late in the 'monotheistic' game, johnny-come-lately's, before this they were a nomadic band of paganistic desert dwellers ultimately banded together, much like china back in the day and england, by a war-mongering leader by the name of Mohammmad, spread by threat of death, the fanatic heretical faith spread like wildfire.

read some facts below:

The Koran, denies the 3 facts... but then, praises the "Gospel of Jesus"... that's a "gross error of the Koran", because if Jesus is not God, and he was not crucified, the Koran should say that the Gospel of Jesus is wrong, instead of praising the Gospel, and advising to follow the doctrines of the Gospel in Suras 5:46 and 5:65... the divinity of Jesus, his crucifixion, and resurrection at the third day, is the "heart of the Gospel"

This is another "missing" of the Koran...God is eternally the Father of Jesus Christ, eternally begotten, not made, and one in being with the Father; Jesus is eternally God as the Father, because if at any moment God would not have had a Son, at that moment God would not have been a Father, which is an impossible... and Jesus Christ is as much God as the Father, God from God... but not two Gods, only one God!... like the water and ice, not 2 waters, but the same substance in different forms... and the Holy Spirit is like a cloud, also the same water, who proceeds eternally from the love of Father to the Son and the love of the Son to the Father... and there are not 3 Gods, but only one eternal God: The God of Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, of the Sura 2:133, which are not 3 Gods, but the only one God... and that's why the only one God speaks as "We" and "Us" and "Our", at least 17 times in the Sura 37 of The Ranks, in verses 70-130.

Mohammmad says:

1- "Invitation first" (that is, call them first to embrace Islam).
2- "If they refuse, then war." "The sword", said Mohammmad, "is the key of heaven and hell; a drop of blood shed in the cause of Allah, or a night spent in arms, is of more avail than two months of fasting or prayer: whosoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven, and at the day of judgment his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim.
(nice guy, huh? real peaceful)

The Quran:
There are 123 verses in the Quran about killing and fighting. (Jihad)(religion of peace? ya sure)
Here are 4 of those 123 verses:

1- "O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing" (Sura al-Tawba 9:123). the Quran
The unbelievers are the Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Indians, atheists... any one who is not a Muslim.

2- "Fight against those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger, have forbidden -- such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humbled" (Sura al-Tawba 9:29). the Quran

3- "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;" (Sura Al Ma idah 5:33). the Quran

4- "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." (Sura AL-BAQARA 2:16) the Quran

[edit on 6-12-2007 by blueyedevil666]

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 02:34 PM
And Furthermore:

1- Egypt - Egypt has been terrorized by Muslims since the time of Umar II (8th Century AD.). With Umar’s raid on Egypt began the destruction of Egypt’s Christians. Their Churches were destroyed, Umar imposed Jizya—a special tax that was invented by Mohammed , where all the "non-believers" had to pay or face death.
2- Algeria - Algeria has been under Islamic terrorist attack for quite some time now. Accurate casualty figures are difficult to acquire, but as many as 50,000 Algerians (militants, security personnel, and civilians) have died as a result of the nearly four-year-old insurgency.
3- Pakistan - Like East Pakistan (Bangladesh), Pakistan was also founded by the terrorist leader, Mohammed Ali Jinnah. Ever since its foundation, Pakistan has sponsored terrorism and Islamic terrorist groups all over the world. Pakistan’s main focus of terrorist activity has always been India. This nation is obsessed with the downfall of India and will do anything to accomplish this goal.
4-The Mideast war is not about occupation. Israel occupies neither Gaza nor Lebanon. This war is about two terror organizations, Hezbollah and Hamas, and their patrons Iran and Syria, which have stated unequivocally their intent to destroy the sovereign state of Israel.
"We now in the Middle East have an axis of terror and hatred comprising Iran, Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah, which is trying to attack Israel and prevent peace in the area," said Israel's consul general in New York, Arye Mekel.
Many other countries such as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Syria, Indonesia, Palestine, Libya, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Mauritania, Cyprus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, etc. can be added to the above list.

Islam: God promised to Abraham through Ishmael another two things:
1- I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count. (Gen16:10) and so it happened! with the 1.1 billion Muslims today, and still counting.
2- Ishmael...12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." (Gen.16:12) ... and it did happened! with the history of wars of Islam.. and even today with the terrorism

Jesus and Mohammed:
1- God:
- Muhammad stated he was not God... and all the 1.1 billion Muslims agree.
- Jesus proclaimed himself God with his own words, an he made many miracles to show that he is God... and he is still making them!... he resurrected physically, because he is God, the Lord of life and death... all the 2.1 billion Christians agree.
2- Prophesied:
- Muhammad was never prophesied.. All Muslims agree on this
- Jesus was prophesied over 300 times for 2,000 years before his birth: The place of his birth, his virgin mother, his life, his death, his resurrection... only in Psalm 22, there are 13 prophecies about Jesus that were fulfilled to the letter at Calvary... and even Jesus himself prophesied 3 times that he will die on a cross, and will resurrect at the third day.
3- Miracles:
- Muhammad never made any "miracle", he stated he never made one, only "The Koran" is his standing miracle... and all the Muslims agree
- Jesus made miracles, described in the Gospels... and the Christians today continue the work o Jesus, they make many miracles in the name of "Jesus": Heal the sick, stop storms, cast out Satan, resurrect the death... in the Catholic Church there are recorded over 400 death resurrected.
46 miracles of Jesus - Deliverance: If you are a Christian... you must cast out devils, and heal the sick!...
4- Wars:
- Muhammad himself launched 80 war campaigns during the ten years from his migration in A.D. 622 to his death in A.D. 632 though some of them were nothing more than reconnaissance missions...
- Jesus never launched any war campaign.

God Doesnt need anyone to fight any wars for him!As the Muslims do

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 02:34 PM
In Islam the problem is accentuated because the Ruler of a Muslim country is at the same time the Political and Religious leader... starting with Muhammed himself who personally fought many wars to defend and expand Islam, and of course he is the model for all the Muslims... and because the final aim of Islam is to conquer the whole world for Allah... by peaceful means, or by war, as started by the Prophet himself. Empires of Islam.
Christians have apologized for he atrocities of the Crusades and Inquisition, even the Pope John Paul II, but I don't know of any Muslim apologizing for the atrocities done by Islam in the name of God for centuries... hundreds of battles, wars, all kinds of terrorism, suicide bombers... the last one today, September 11, 2001, in the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington...
I have met many Muslims in New York, Palestine, Egypt, North and South Africa, India, China, and all of them are good people, good friends, hard workers, reliable... however, in Islam there have been hundreds of totalitarian regimes for centuries, starting with the Prophet Himself, with Muhammed (peace be upon him)... the aim of most of them, like Hitler or Stalin, was to expand Islam to the neighboring countries, if necessary by war, with thousands of wars made in the name of God, and millions killed for the only crime of not being a Muslim...
The Muslims in a Muslim Country:
Most Muslim countries today are part of the third world of under-developed countries... many rulers use their huge oil wealth and money for personal wealth and for the cause of Islam, instead of the betterment of the poor brothers Muslim citizens... look at Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Palestine... Kadafy in Libya, the Kings in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria...
The non-Muslims in a Muslim Country:
Inside of most Muslim countries is like the Nazi regime or Communism: Islam often makes the lives impossible to the non-Muslims, imposing severe taxes (the Jizya or poll tax), and even killing millions... like today in Sudan: We're talking here not about discrimination, but persecution of the worst sort: slavery, starvation, torture, murder.... for the only crime of being a Christian... about 1.3 million of them dead only in Sudan, in a country with only 5 million Christians:
And, on top of it, when there is not enough power, all kinds of terrorism, suicide bombers... and all of it in the name of Allah, the Islamic Holy War... based on the teachings of the the Quran and Hadith.
All of it started with the Prophet Himself, Muhammed
Meanwhile, Uthman, and Ali were assassinated by fellow Muslims...Uthman while he was reading the Koran he published, and Ali by Muawiyah, the founder of the Umayyad Dynasty.
Here is an explanation of these assassinations among brother Muslims by The Hadith of Muhammed:
"Allah's Apostle said, "Allah welcomes two men with a smile; one of whom kills the other and both of them enter Paradise. One fights in Allah's Cause and gets killed. Later on Allah forgives the 'killer who also get martyred (In Allah's Cause)."... Here is a very important matter. We often wonder how Muslims kill each other and both parties scream "Jihad" as they kill each other. Muhammed says that Allah is happy to see them BOTH killing each other. The cause is not the point-- just kill, kill, kill."
Two articles in the L.A. Times wrote about Muslims in Indonesia forcing Christians of all denominations to convert to Islam or get their throats slit. Thousands upon thousands of Christians have been first converted, and then sexually mutilated with kitchen knives and razor blades to make them conform to Muslim standards. Afterwards, they are enslaved to their local Muslim chieftain. They have a history of murder, terror, lies and brainwashing to advance their cause of global conversion and subjugation... Their Jihad!.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 02:37 PM
reply to post by Kacen

I think he was talking abt your post on "6-12-2007 @ 12:24 PM "

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 03:41 PM
reply to post by Grenade

muhammed started his own religion/with a different god than the G-D you find in the jewish tanakh or the new covenant.muslims follow their own religious holidays--------with their friday .those that follow the true G-D keep the Holydays found in leviticus 23 including the 7th day sabbath------------not sunday.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 03:47 PM

Originally posted by kangjia57

I rather stick to medieval ideas (according to you) than have homos running around doing their THING in Muslim countries matey!

I think the reason the law exists in the first place is that there were and still are homosexuals doing their thing in Muslim countries.

I have a friend from Jakarta Indonesia and he told me that he knows several homosexuals. Granted they are not "out of the closet" and "in your face" like many here in the US.

Indonesia presently has a more secular for of government. But the hard liners are always waiting in the wings for an opportunity to bring Sharia law there too.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 03:54 PM

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to Kacen

Do you agree with all of the laws of Saudi Arabia, such as women not being allowed to drive and practically being treated as second-class citizens?

Nope like I said Muslim countries make up their own laws sometimes and claim its Sharia Law which is total BS.Women should be allowed to drive and treated as first class citizens.Thats how Islam says it should be

So that means that Sharia law is subject to interpretation. The severity of punishment & restrictions will depend not on some unchangeable eternal code, but rather by who is in power and how they choose to interpret & apply it.

That leaves the door open to more liberal interpretations of Sharia law, the application of which can be altered to fit into modern society.

There are a number of countries that have done this, or are moving in that direction. Indonesia and Malaysia are two that come to mind.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 04:44 PM

Originally posted by babloyi
These rulings, of course, have nothing to do with the Quran or the Hadith, which was my point. It is like (for example), when people claim that the Pope is evil, because he prohibits the use of condoms, thus causing much misery, and overpopulation, and teenage births and STDs, etc. They fail to mention that the Pope also condemns adultery and sex outside of marriage, which if people would listen to, there would be a lot less of those problems. You can't blame the Pope for something people are misinterpreting.

So, what you're saying is, the pope's being against protecting people from "so much misery" because they are going against his wishes and what he deems the right thing is a good thing? If people would just obey him, they wouldn't have to suffer, right? That is, IMO, proof the catholic church is pretty evil. It, next to Islam, is one of the better examples of men using god's name to gain power and make up their own rules.

Why can't people just connect with god themselves, internally? Why must one waste so much time worshipping somebody else's idea of what god is, and spend that time living a good life, and helping others? Why are things that should be SO clear, SO hard for such a large number of people to see?

I asked similar to the above questions of kangjia in the other thread, he responded to all but those ones.

posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 04:47 PM
reply to post by blueyedevil666

long post...but very poor.
mine is short and very poor because i can say them same thing about Christianity.


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