kangjia57, might I ask you a few things...
Do you agree with all of the laws of Saudi Arabia, such as women not being allowed to drive and practically being treated as second-class citizens?
Do you believe in killing/torturing people for homosexuality?
Do you believe in outlawing other religions besides Islam/treating them as second class citizens in Saudi Arabia?
Do you believe in forcing Islamic law on anyone who is in a Muslim country, regardless of that persons faith? Such as restricting them to practice
their religion (I'm a pagan...), and forcing women to wear hijabs even if not Muslim, and to be treated as second-class citizens such as in Saudi
Arabia?
I know not all Muslim countries are like that. Turkey is very free, for example. I admire them. Malaysia is also okay, I can tolerate it, though some
things are weird about it, for instance apparently from what I read they have Shariah law but it only applies to Muslims...for instance if your a
Muslim in Malaysia and you drink alcohol that would be illegal but if your not a Muslim it's okay.
I suppose thats "fair", but when I stop and think about it, seems a bit redundant...if someone is devoted to their religion, does it even need to be
made a law? Do they need a law? Especially since the country tolerates non-Muslims, might as well not enforce Shariah law at all. Too complicated to
explain in depth what I mean especially since I'm at school and short on time, but you might understand. Beachcoma can you enlighten me on this since
your from Malaysia?
Muhammad - Prophet or Profiteer of God?, page 6
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 10:52 AM by babloyi
reply to post by Grenade
Sharia law (as the concept exists today) is not Islamic, and is definitely not perfect. It is an ideology that emerged in completion some time in the middle of the last millennia from four schools of thought that based themselves on interpretations of the Quran and Hadith/Sunnah. Different groups of people from different parts of the world have different interpretations of Sharia. You can see how the Chinese-Whisperers-ing of this concept has mutated it all. For example: Taliban believe that according to Sharia homosexuals should be executed by having a wall dropped on them, not having a beard is punishable by imprisonment (until the beard grows to the proper length), and barbers that shave beards are punishable by death. A few 100Km away, such ideas would be laughable.
Sharia law (as the concept exists today) is not Islamic, and is definitely not perfect. It is an ideology that emerged in completion some time in the middle of the last millennia from four schools of thought that based themselves on interpretations of the Quran and Hadith/Sunnah. Different groups of people from different parts of the world have different interpretations of Sharia. You can see how the Chinese-Whisperers-ing of this concept has mutated it all. For example: Taliban believe that according to Sharia homosexuals should be executed by having a wall dropped on them, not having a beard is punishable by imprisonment (until the beard grows to the proper length), and barbers that shave beards are punishable by death. A few 100Km away, such ideas would be laughable.
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 10:52 AM by Alxandro
The irony I don't understand is this, the radical muslims are extremely proud that they always ready and willing to die for their cause yet when they
are accomodated, many many people get bent out of shape.
Perhaps this is a better solution?
Perhaps this is a better solution?
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 10:55 AM by blueorder
Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Grenade
Sharia law (as the concept exists today) is not Islamic, and is definitely not perfect. It is an ideology that emerged in completion some time in the middle of the last millennia from four schools of thought that based themselves on interpretations of the Quran and Hadith/Sunnah. Different groups of people from different parts of the world have different interpretations of Sharia. You can see how the Chinese-Whisperers-ing of this concept has mutated it all. For example: Taliban believe that according to Sharia homosexuals should be executed by having a wall dropped on them, not having a beard is punishable by imprisonment (until the beard grows to the proper length), and barbers that shave beards are punishable by death. A few 100Km away, such ideas would be laughable.
you say it is not "islamic", well it is in the sense that is related to Islam, not CHristianity for example.
Secularists dont follow shariah law, jews dont etc- it is an Islamic thing (whether most muslims follow it or not)
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 10:56 AM by babloyi
reply to post by blueorder
I say it is not Islamic in the sense that Islam does not endorse it. The fact that certain muslims do, has hardly got anything to do with Islam, and even less so to do with Muhammad.
[edit on 6-12-2007 by babloyi]
I say it is not Islamic in the sense that Islam does not endorse it. The fact that certain muslims do, has hardly got anything to do with Islam, and even less so to do with Muhammad.
[edit on 6-12-2007 by babloyi]
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 10:58 AM by Beachcoma
reply to post by Grenade
Changing nothing there. Just returning back to the parts that made it good, before all the nonsense fatwas. All based on the Qur'an and the Hadith Sahih.
See, it sort of evolved in a bell curve, the way I see it. Fledgling --> Expansion --> Golden Age --> The Murderous Moghuls --> The Doped up Ottomans --> Idiotic Fundamentalists. The way I see, this is a call to return back to the values of the Golden Age.
Yeah, it's like how you described. Done that way so that the other political party, The Islamic Party of Malaysia (PAS) don't have teeth. Better off that way, because PAS has some extreme and bigoted views. If you ever visit the country, stay away from areas under their control (the states of Kelantan and Terengganu). They're rather extreme and narrow-minded.
In short, it's a political move to appease the side that would otherwise be swayed by PAS' firebrand rhetoric.
Changing nothing there. Just returning back to the parts that made it good, before all the nonsense fatwas. All based on the Qur'an and the Hadith Sahih.
See, it sort of evolved in a bell curve, the way I see it. Fledgling --> Expansion --> Golden Age --> The Murderous Moghuls --> The Doped up Ottomans --> Idiotic Fundamentalists. The way I see, this is a call to return back to the values of the Golden Age.
Originally posted by Kacen
Beachcoma can you enlighten me on this since your from Malaysia?
Yeah, it's like how you described. Done that way so that the other political party, The Islamic Party of Malaysia (PAS) don't have teeth. Better off that way, because PAS has some extreme and bigoted views. If you ever visit the country, stay away from areas under their control (the states of Kelantan and Terengganu). They're rather extreme and narrow-minded.
In short, it's a political move to appease the side that would otherwise be swayed by PAS' firebrand rhetoric.
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 11:14 AM by Grenade
reply to post by kangjia57
Yes you truly are a shining example of a liberal, free thinking, peaceful, adaptable, considerate human being. Your ideology is a shining exampe to our children on acceptance.
I dont particularly agree with homosexuality myself however dropping anyone who is gay off a mountain is highly offensive. You expect us to respect and not ridicule your culture, you expect us to see it as peaceful yet the first hate speech in this entire thread was posted by a Muslim, basically calling for the death of homosexuals.
Thank you for finally proving my point! If you dont agree with Muhammad then you can rot in hell, not only that you will be sent there quicker through a gruesome, barbaric death.
Yes you truly are a shining example of a liberal, free thinking, peaceful, adaptable, considerate human being. Your ideology is a shining exampe to our children on acceptance.
I dont particularly agree with homosexuality myself however dropping anyone who is gay off a mountain is highly offensive. You expect us to respect and not ridicule your culture, you expect us to see it as peaceful yet the first hate speech in this entire thread was posted by a Muslim, basically calling for the death of homosexuals.
Thank you for finally proving my point! If you dont agree with Muhammad then you can rot in hell, not only that you will be sent there quicker through a gruesome, barbaric death.
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 11:45 AM by Grenade
reply to post by kangjia57
I fail to see the logic in your argument. It is hard to keep a cool head when i try to promote peace, learning and acceptance.
You on the other hand believe in a religion which promotes death, punishment and the idea that women should be second class citizens.
I have never called for, nor advocated the use of violence to enforce laws. Instead i ask that we use a system based on human rights, learning, equality, adaptability and understanding.
[edit on 6/12/07 by Grenade]
I fail to see the logic in your argument. It is hard to keep a cool head when i try to promote peace, learning and acceptance.
You on the other hand believe in a religion which promotes death, punishment and the idea that women should be second class citizens.
I have never called for, nor advocated the use of violence to enforce laws. Instead i ask that we use a system based on human rights, learning, equality, adaptability and understanding.
[edit on 6/12/07 by Grenade]
reply posted on 6-12-2007 @ 11:46 AM by babloyi
reply to post by kangjia57
Hey kangjia! While the practice of homosexuality is condemned in the Quran, I cannot find any instance of a punishment of 'dropping from a mountain', either in the Quran, or in the Hadith. Can you tell me where you got this from?
Hey kangjia! While the practice of homosexuality is condemned in the Quran, I cannot find any instance of a punishment of 'dropping from a mountain', either in the Quran, or in the Hadith. Can you tell me where you got this from?
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