Muhammad - Prophet or Profiteer of God?

Originally posted by kangjia57
All the battles were defensive!If someone attacked you, what would you do? I am sure you are not gona stand and watch and say matey please have mercy on me while hes about to stab you? Or are you?

yeah right, Im sure Bush could say his was defensive after 9-11.

Id say muhammad wasnt seeking UN approval for his actions

Reply to blueorder

yeah right, Im sure Bush could say his was defensive after 9-11

If Bush did 9/11 as an excuse to attack Muslims than how is that defensive?

Originally posted by kangjia57

If Bush did 9/11 as an excuse to attack Muslims than how is that defensive?

Nah, must be a different Bush, he didnt go to war to attack muslims, you would need to show me where Bush has stated he is going to war with Muslims- he could have just nuked the place if that was the case.

Im saying just like muhammad, bush can claim defensive excuse for his actions

reply to post by babloyi


Hi Babloyi,

My problem isnt so much with Muhammad himself, it is his religion based on 6th century beliefs, culture and law. My personal opinion is that these laws and beliefs need to be modernised to fit more with rational thinking. We have come 1500 years in history yet we are still beheading and chopping off limbs. I am of the opinion that these practices are old world and should be scrapped.

For this reason i dont believe Mohammad is a true Prophet of God as his religion doesnt seem to have any foresight past the traditions and beliefs of his time. When compared to Western civilisations ideology of free speech and human rights it is simply barbaric. We need to move forward as a race, not backward or as Muslims seem to prefer to stagnate. We need to constantly change and adapt our laws as society changes around us. We need to learn from experience, technological, philisophical and scientific advancement not tie ourselves to 6th century writings.

Of course this is my opinion, i do not claim to be a scholar so please excuse my poor spelling and grammar. Unfortunately i left school at 15 so maybe this explains why my opinions seem to be misconstrued on this thread.

Reply to blueorder

he could have just nuked the place if that was the case.

Naa impossible,Iran would have pressed the button and send one off aswel and Bush cannot ditch his jewish mates.That would be harsh!

Im saying just like muhammad, bush can claim defensive excuse for his actions

Naa Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) didn’t want oil! Didnt have cars in them days.

reply to post by Grenade


absoloutely top notch post- in the same way as there are some barbaric practices in the old testament, these are not studied as guides to living life today, merely a consequence of their historical time.

Can Islam adapt to modern western life- I don't know, I would love that to be the case, but cannot pretend I am remotely hopeful

Originally posted by kangjia57
Naa impossible,Iran would have pressed the button and send one off aswel and Bush cannot ditch his jewish mates.That would be harsh!
[/QUOTE]

Iran doesnt have a nuclear missile yet, so that wouldnt have been a consideration- any Iranian attack on Israel would result in Israel annihilating Iran, without US attack



[QUOTE]
Naa Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) didn’t want oil! Didnt have cars in them days.

no, just land, property, camels, resources etc- the times may be different but the motives remain the same eh

two warmongers

Originally posted by Grenade
We need to move forward as a race, not backward or as Muslims seem to prefer to stagnate. We need to constantly change and adapt our laws as society changes around us. We need to learn from experience, technological, philisophical and scientific advancement [...]

I can agree to that. Lookit:

Islam Hadhari

It consists of 10 fundamental principles.

• Faith and piety in Allah
  
• Just and trustworthy government
  
• Freedom and independence to the people
  
• Mastery of knowledge
  
• Balanced and comprehensive economic development
  
• Good quality of life for all
  
• Protection of the rights of minority groups and women
  
• Cultural and moral integrity
  
• Protection of the environment
  
• A strong defence policy

Inroads are being made to modernise. The media is ignoring it. The bigots (on both sides) will dismiss it.

Reply to Grenade

We need to move forward as a race, not backward or as Muslims seem to prefer to stagnate. We need to constantly change and adapt our laws as society changes around us. We need to learn from experience, technological, philisophical and scientific advancement not tie ourselves to 6th century writings.

I am a Muslim and I am moving forward.I am educating myself. Yes Muslims live in changing world socities.Islam doesn’t stop technological, scientific advancement and it encourages it.

Originally posted by Grenade
We need to constantly change and adapt our laws as society changes around us. We need to learn from experience, technological, philisophical and scientific advancement...

Islam does not prevent this, in fact, it encourages it. I'm sure you'll agree that no matter how much society changes the base of all law should be "treat your neighbour as yourself"? Today we seem to be moving more towards "Do what you like as long as you don't hurt anyone (hurting being pretty vague), and the neighbours can go ****" .

Originally posted by Grenade
Of course this is my opinion, i do not claim to be a scholar so please excuse my poor spelling and grammar. Unfortunately i left school at 15 so maybe this explains why my opinions seem to be misconstrued on this thread.

Leaving school early seems no reason for anyone to misinterpret you. You seemed to have been pretty clear about what you were talking about so far. However, you could have then started a more specific topic. I replied assuming we were discussing Muhammad.

reply to post by Beachcoma


believe it or not I would love it if that was the case with Islam (you may find that hard to believe), however that is the exception rather than the rule (the malaysian one you gave)

I would love it if Islam could adapt to modern western ideals, Christianity had to do it several hundred years ago (in many instances it was Christianity that was the catalyst)- can Islam do it, let me say I am not hopeful

Originally posted by kangjia57
Islam doesn’t stop technological, scientific advancement and it encourages it.

True. After all the very first word revealed to the prophet was "Read".

Reply to Blueorder

Iran doesnt have a nuclear missile yet, so that wouldn’t have been a consideration- any Iranian attack on Israel would result in Israel annihilating Iran

no, just land, property, camels, resources etc- the times may be different but the motives remain the same eh

I am sure Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had enough and wouldn’t cause a war to get camels and mud houses lol and you dont run out of these things!

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by kangjia57
Islam doesn’t stop technological, scientific advancement and it encourages it.

True. After all the very first word revealed to the prophet was "Read".

The reality is, that Islamic countries have been stunted in terms of development, technology etc- we hear wonders about Islamic innovation while Europe languished in a dark age (which wasnt actually innovation but study of previous greek, roman, persian discoveries, advances etc)- but in modern history, Islam has been a force for stunted nations, regardless of the spin people place on it

Originally posted by kangjia57

I am sure Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had enough and wouldn’t cause a war to get camels and mud houses lol and you dont run out of these things!

All part of his power trip, accumulate more, give to existing followers and those converts etc

War for power and control, same old same old

Reply to Blueorder

The reality is, that Islamic countries have been stunted in terms of development, technology etc-

but in modern history, Islam has been a force for stunted nations, regardless of the spin people place on it

Shall I start naming countries that are not Muslim countries and are stunted nations?

Originally posted by kangjia57

The reality is, that Islamic countries have been stunted in terms of development, technology etc-

but in modern history, Islam has been a force for stunted nations, regardless of the spin people place on it

Shall I start naming countries that are not Muslim countries and are stunted nations?

You could do that, but it wouldn't invalidate my point, Islam isnt the only cause of nations being stunted (refer North Korea, Zimbabwe etc)

Reply to Blueorder

All part of his power trip, accumulate more, give to existing followers and those converts

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught us how to give not take.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to Blueorder

All part of his power trip, accumulate more, give to existing followers and those converts

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught us how to give not take.

Took the booty from his conquests- fact, gave them to his devotees, fact

reply to post by Beachcoma


Unfortunately the laws and rules within Islam are finalised and cannot be changed.

This is my understanding, please correct me if i am wrong. As we previously stated Muslim's see the Qur'an and Sharia law as perfect. Why would they want perfection to change.