Muhammad - Prophet or Profiteer of God?

Reply to Grenade

So something 1500 years old is modern? Please for all the defenders of Islam out there do not tell me you think it is perfect? I dont think i can take it. Nothing is perfect!

I said for Muslims its PERFECT!If you cannot take it than you will have to respect it because Muslims follow it.

reply to post by kangjia57

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Would you prefer to have shoplifters getting their hands chopped off- you personally, is that your preference?

I don't respect Islamic law, not in my country anyway, I offer it no respect and there is nothing that states I should

Reply to Blueorder

Would you prefer to have shoplifters getting their hands chopped off- you personally, is that your preference?

If shoplifters knew their hands will get chopped off with a machette if they get caught. Than I don’t think there will be many shoplifters.And for that reason I FULLY agree to it matey!

I agree there would be less shoplifting, but I think a society that chops hands off is a poorer society, culturally, economically and educationally.


That is a medieval historical custom which has no place in the west- shoplifting does not deserve limb removal- to pretend that a religion is one of peace which suggests such thing is the height of irony

Grenade you really need to stop and think for a moment.

Your comment about the shoplifters is so ironic, because on this very forum there is a thread of over 500 replies about an American man (USA) who shot to death two people for braking into his neighbour’s house. The reason this is ironic is because there’s no difference between the two incidents:
Man A steals, gets shot to death.
Man B steals, gets his hand cut off.

If anything man B got the better sentence under Islamic Law then those two people in the US of A.

Furthermore, your statement; “However i see constantly my fellow citizens being threatened with death for being naive toward a religion which lets be honest is barbaric.” Is absolutely false.

Legally, for something to be counted as a threat in the United Kingdom the person has to have the ability to carry it out. That is the legal meaning of the term threat. So please find someone being threatened by a Muslim who has the ability to carry it out? I’d like examples that back up your statement before you bother to continue with that line of reasoning.

Also I don’t need to find a source that contradicts it; the source and hadith that you use isn’t valid. It is known to have many aspects of it that aren’t valid and the whole back-story to the incident is laughable.

Firstly, the man he had killed to anger this woman was 120. 120 years old in that day and age? I cannot think of one historical ruler from that time period to hit 80 let alone 120.
Secondly, the comment about the goats "Two goats won't butt their head about her", is a reference to nobody caring she was killed. So a woman, with several children is stabbed to death in her own home while she sleeps and nobody cares?
Thirdly, the man is blind. He is able to sneak around a house, without disturbing several children and adults, and then stab a woman to death after moving a hungry child off of her breast.
Fourthly, the write of the hadith said he didn’t validate all of them and not all of them were accurate but rather reported for people to make their own mind up.

So – why do you believe this one?

Also, just so you are aware – the Catholic Church believes that the Pope is the voice of God on Earth and that he speaks to God. According to wikipedia here: en.wikipedia.org...
That’s 1.1billion people who think that the Pope can speak to God.

Your argument about angels, etcetera, isn’t valid.

Reply to Odium

The way you explained about the blind man mudering and 120 year old man made me laugh!!! Hahaha damn nearly got a stomach ache!!

hah, did you laugh when you compared how many battles Bush has led and how many muhammad led- did you get your "peace" and "warmonger" comments all skewed chumley!

Actually, please do make a list of the years each of them spent at war with other Nations and then compare it against the amount of years they have been a political leader and do it in your next post please for us all to see.

Bush has been at war since 2002. He became leader in 2001. Thus out of 7 years in Office he has been at war for 6 of them.

Now you do the other?

Reply to Blueorder and Grenade

You guys sound like you just wana bring me down,not Islam!Feels like you guys just using Islam as an excuse to humiliate me! Now I find that more funny LOLLLL!!!!

You mean kind of like how you're not interested in any thing that paints Islam in a positive light?

Pot, meet the kettle. Kettle, say hi to the pot.

reply to post by Odium

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In your opinion is Islam perfect? It seems that way. Unbelievable accounts are fine when it backs up the idea that Muhammad is perfect in everyway but then when it comes to some that possibly slander the Prophet you take a totally different stance.

So tell me, cutting off the hands of a thief isnt barbaric in your opinion? (Please answer with your own opinion not a reasoning behind why a Muslim would approve of this punishment)

The notion that 100% of the Muslims in the UK think this punishment is better than our own laws doesnt worry you? That 40% of young Muslims would actually like the laws of the UK to be changed, when remembering that these young Muslims will father the future generation of the fastest growing minority in the UK? Remember that these people are walking around thinking that beheading, limb removal etc is justice for crimes we punish through the courts by fines and imprisonment.

Personally i think our system is a much more peaceful and less violent way of dealing with crime. Maybe i am delusional.

reply to post by blueorder

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Let us make this simple.

A guy in the US of A last week shot to death two people, who were barely stealing anything as they left a property. That's no better than a country where a person can loose his hand for stealing.

They stole.
He stole.

The crime is the same.

Be it in a shop, in someones home, the crime is in fact still the same.

As for that picture, it isn't a threat. Let me explain what a threat is:
The person has to say and then do something for it to be a threat. He has to have the ability to carry out that threat.

That man does not have the ability to kill every single person who offends Islam. Seriously, do you think he could get away with killing thousands of people? Let's do a little test.

Islam is a bad religion.

Now I am away till Tuesday, I'll let you know if he kills me or not.

Sweet joy, the mental and moral acrobatics of a dhimmi.

I don't proclaim Bush as a bringer of peace, that is the point, he has led wars, but muhammad fought more battles.

Criticise and defile Bush all you want, I wont riot and behead people, cant promise you the same with your masters in Islam for people who do likewise with muhammad

Well done

Quite the opposite, there are positive points to Islam, there were positive social aspects to National Socialism too, but on the balance of things I have to call it as a "not for me or for the west ta", okey doke

reply to post by Grenade

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Grenade, how many criminals have you met in life?

I don't think cutting their hands off with solve the situation, nor do I support it. But at the same point, I don't support letting people who kill several people live because it is a waste of tax payers money.

Islam isn't perfect, but you use god awful quotes that many Muslims don't believe to attack it. The whole point of this website is to deny ignorance, not to go spreading it and that is all you do.

reply to post by kangjia57

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I do not want to bring anything down, i am merely interested in sharing thoughts and opinions and hearing both sides of the story.

One again my friend i ask that when you claim i am making personal insults or ridiculing your belief, that you actually quote me. Otherwise you are just making assumptions about my agenda.

I actually personally invited you to this thread as i feel your input as a practicing Muslim is good for this debate. I have also stated i respect your belief even if i do not agree with it.

Lets not turn this thread into an argument, instead lets share ideas and opinions.

A threat does not mean you have to be able to kill every single person, like, someone at a rally saying "KILL ALL JEWS", would still be arrested for incitment regardless of the obvious fact that he could not kill all Jews.

I mean, Im not questioning your sanity, but you are aware that in the UK several such placard holders have recently been convicted due to such threats, and Im pretty sure the judge did not make it a requirement for a threat to be valid to be able to kill every person of said group.

One of the most bizzarre dhimmi acrobating I have ever witnessed, kudos to you sir!

[edit on 6-12-2007 by blueorder]

reply to post by Odium

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it is no excuse for lazy extreme relativism, just because you do not see perfection in the US- the US is MUCH, MUCH BETTER, than the Sudan


TO pretend otherwise is just embarrassing