What I am missing? Why does anyone care about straw polls either way? Anyone can have one - I can have my own. The "honor-system" is usually in place and there is no oversight or verification process. They mean nothing. Straw Polls seem to be nothing more than groups of people who like to get together and pat themselves on the back. Ron Paul supporters apparently upset someone private little party.

Logic happens to be my job. That being said, I have tried, but am unable to understand why, logically, anyone would NOT vote for Ron Paul. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Getting rid of taxes would not give everyone 1/3 more income. Get informed. Magically everyone would have a bunch more money ? There is a ridulous amout of overspending in the govenrment and I believe this has to be corrected.

If everyone had more money all of the sudden, basic supply and demand econmics would kick in and inflation would quickly make a correction. The solution is not that simple.

In my opinion, Ron Paul supporters believe in sweeping immediate changes with magical results. It's not that simple. The vast majority people realize this, which is why support for Ron Paul will remain in the very small minority.

Originally posted by urbal
Logic happens to be my job. That being said, I have tried, but am unable to understand why, logically, anyone would NOT vote for Ron Paul. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Most "yellow dog democrats" just do what dear old dad, God rest his soul these 37 years, said was right. I'm sure there is a Republican equivalent.

Really, for most people, it's easier than thinking for themselves.

Originally posted by dirtonwater

Getting rid of taxes would not give everyone 1/3 more income. Get informed. Magically everyone would have a bunch more money ? There is a ridiculous amount of overspending in the government and I believe this has to be corrected.

Wow talk about being brainwashed! It is not magic its called "The government is not stealing 1/3 of my families income anymore"

Oh yeah, I corrected your spelling before I submitted this.

I am confused; we have all these presidential candidates. Yet only one candidate clearly states he will lead this country per the constitution. Is that not a requirement for an elected American president to follow?

How can any other candidate even campaign without having a track record of the same values and virtues of holding the integrity of our constitution?

How can an American be against the sole candidate, Ron Paul, which believes in the constitution, has been a member of congress and respected the constitution in his years of service? His political history is proof of his integrity of his honoring the constitution. No other candidate can truly have their political history weighed against the constitution and claim to represent the founding fathers vision.

IMO if you believe in the vision our founding fathers created. Why vote for someone that doesn't hold that vision. Do you not respect or care about YOUR constitution also? Maybe your part of the 1-% elite that will lose their precious financial empire? Or are you the remaining 99% that has to live by their rules? Do you like their rules that they change for their personal interests from that "damn piece of paper"?

I ask anyone what has any of the current politicians brought in full harmony and agreement and passed by our very constitutional methods to bring relief to ALL the people? By very people that elected them into office. medical? taxes? energy? food? privacy? etc.

In a nutshell, IMO, I feel it would be a fair statement to say "If you’re not for the constitution then you’re against it."

This political season the GOP has Ron Paul. In 2000 and 2004 the DEM's had Ralph Nader. If all those Nader votes had gone for the DEM candidate, we would not have lost the elections. (I still think both the elections were rigged by the GOP)

I think we should listen to these "fringe" candidates. They obviously have a message that many voters identify with.

Before I came to ATS, I never heard of Ron Paul. For the first time in my voting life I may actually vote GOP if Ron Paul gets the nomination. I may even vote for him if he runs independent.

My point is that its time to stop supporting a candidate just because they are the "chosen" one. We need to vote for the candidate that we think will do the best job. To do that we need to be open to new ideas, new candidates, and new visions of what we as Americans want for our beautiful country.

Originally posted by dirtonwater
Getting rid of taxes would not give everyone 1/3 more income. Get informed. Magically everyone would have a bunch more money ?

Uh...what? Okay, I'll go through it with you.

Say John makes $600 a week. Right now, the (income) tax rate is 1/3, or 33.3%.
This means that John is taxed 1/3 of his income, which goes to the government. 1/3 of $600, or $600 divided by 3, is $200.
John only keeps two thirds of what he makes, or $400! Out of the $600 he worked for, he only gets $400!

Simply, if you reduce government spending, end the nanny state, you can lower taxes. Therefore, less money is directly taken from everyone, including John. So instead of only getting 2/3 of what he actually worked for, he can keep most of it. The economic boost to everyone would be enormous.

The government can raise income through the ways defined in the Constitution, especially excise. Perhaps make food exempt to taxation to make it easier for the poor.

Originally posted by dirtonwater
In my opinion, Ron Paul supporters believe in sweeping immediate changes with magical results. It's not that simple. The vast majority people realize this, which is why support for Ron Paul will remain in the very small minority.

i dont think i'm going to get more money from ron paul. I also dont expect sweeping results. however, hes still the only candidate I am considering.

Originally posted by Roper
Riddle me this.

Whats the difference between the DNC and RNC????

Answer Nuttin'

Roper

You my friend have more common sense than most....Thank you for showing that someone other than myself can see this...

A couple of people in this thread ask why straw polls matter.

The reason I believe straw polls matter, is because they are then presented to the public via the media, and the public then take this information to decide if a candidate has a chance of winning.

'He doesn't have a chance' is one of the reasons given by people who like Paul, but won't vote for him, so straw polls and media attention can change their vote.


[edit on 5-12-2007 by bobafett]

Originally posted by dirtonwater

Getting rid of taxes would not give everyone 1/3 more income. Get informed. Magically everyone would have a bunch more money ? There is a ridulous amout of overspending in the govenrment and I believe this has to be corrected.

If everyone had more money all of the sudden, basic supply and demand econmics would kick in and inflation would quickly make a correction. The solution is not that simple.

In my opinion, Ron Paul supporters believe in sweeping immediate changes with magical results. It's not that simple. The vast majority people realize this, which is why support for Ron Paul will remain in the very small minority.

Quite an assumption don't you think? So, ALL Paul supporters are for sweeping immediate changes with *magical* results.

I can tell just from that sentence alone that you feel that we are all living in some make-believe land where *magic* and *fairy dust* are in abundace.

You want to know why I'm voting for Paul. Simple. THE U.S. CONSTITUTION!!!!! The law of the land. The document that tells our government HOW THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO ACT. The document that spells out what it takes to GO TO WAR! The document that spells out what the role of the federal government ought to be, and it's not supposed to take care of you from cradle to grave. Who's responsible for you.....YOU ARE!

I believe Paul is a visionary in that he wants to return to our roots. However, from listening to him speak on many occasions, he's also a realist. There are SOME things that could be done now. Troop withdrawl is one of them. Why would that be important? How 'bout, oh let's say, TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN BORDERS!

Let me say again, Paul has stated many, many times that he realizes that his ideas could not be put into place overnight. There has to be a transition. I'm all for a guy who has the GUTS to take that step. If he's elected, do I still think I will pay taxes in 2009? Yes.

And, just how precisely will removing taxes NOT increase spendable income. INFORM ME! If the federal government doesn't have more of MY MONEY, then who has it? The State? Local government?

SO
You post that and then give no details
Who organized the event?
Why was the crowd so tiny?
What is the purpose of this Straw Poll and how does it effect the Primaries?
What happened before you turned the camera on?
Did the Paul supporters storm the place intending to cause trouble?
Were all the attendees Registered Voters?
How were those attending confirmed to be Registered Voters?
The tape is meaningless without more information.

The best Paul has done on any National Poll I can find is 6%. He is not a viable Candidate at this point. In the real elections people can't pretend to be hundreds of people like they did in that You Tube travesty. Lying about the number of supporters won't get him elected.

Those of you who Register and Vote have my applause but somehow I think this will be like the last election in that; they thought the University Students who Registered would vote. Of course they did not. The numbers were the historical norm. Too low to matter. Things never change. I have never known an Activist who actually voted. They campaign but the only thing that counts is if they register and vote. Otherwise they are just so much dust in the wind.

Originally posted by Roper
Riddle me this.

Whats the difference between the DNC and RNC????

Answer Nuttin'

Roper

You can't say that
The Party Boogie Men will get ya!

I think plenty of us know that. They call us Moderates and we are the Majority. Without us, nobody gets elected. We don't care for Radicals who stir up messes and leave it for others to clean up, because we are the others. Its just like in the Office. The loudmouths never take action and the quiet people do all the real work and keep the place running.

With all due respect to the Ron Paul supporters here, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Straw polls are generally organized by the local chapters of a political party to get their core constituents energized for the campaign and, to a lesser degree, to gauge the feelings of those constituents toward the various candidates. They are more of a pep rally for the party, as a whole, than a true poll. Thus, when one candidate's supporters make a concerted effort to load that poll and make it appear that that candidate has more support than he or she does in reality, it shouldn't surprise anyone that those who put on the poll are reluctant to allow it to become a pseudo propaganda tool for those supporters.

I'll give Ron Paul credit, I do believe that he is an honest man, and that he truly believes that his ideas are in the best interest of the United States. It is refreshing, and I believe that that is exactly why he has struck such a strong chord amongst his supporters. I just happen to disagree with him on a number his ideas. However, grand conspiracies and the almost rabid loyalty of his supporters aside, the actual percentage of voters who support him is still rather low, and I think the tactics, like poll loading such as this, by his supporters are actually hurting his campaign.

It's one thing to staunchly support your candidate, but it's a whole different ball of wax, when a small percentage of voters try and force their candidate on the party. And this is how these tactics appear to me and a large number of Republicans.

Just my $.02,

-Cypher