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16 Common Myths About Atheists

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posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Here's a myth that you inadvertently reinforced

Only Atheist myth that matters - Atheist are so proud of being Atheist that they must make it the main attraction of themselves whenever they can. It isn't enough to not believe in God or gods. They have a need to discuss it all the time.


example - Have you ever met an Atheist who doesn't advertise the fact that they're Atheist? I haven't. Atheists wear it like a badge.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by spinalremain]




posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Sunsetspawn

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
Life is tough, people have opinions and they all stink.


That's right, but I would give anything to press my nose up against Lily Allen's opinion.


Eh, Lily Allen, I do like british women but I'll go for Joss Stone instead

2nd line



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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Deist get the same myths told about us to.

The problem with organized religion is that there member are ignorant. most of them have never looked up deism or go to one of the fake deist explanation sites that organized religion has seeded on the internet.

May don't even know what deism is yet they spread stories based on myths they invent.

Many believe deist do not believe in god. false, we believe in god we just do not believe in organized religion.

Many believe deist do not have a moral beliefs. false, De have the deist principles
moderndeism.com...

Deism has no creed, articles of faith, or holy book. false, Christian deist have the Jefferson bible and the deist principles.

Deist are Atheists. false we are religious just do not have a organized religion.

Deism is a cult. false, we can not be a cult because we are not a organized religion.

Deist hate Christians. false, We are just tired of them bothering us and spreading myths about us.
We are also tired of them trying to use there religious beliefs to prohibit our freedoms. A number of us are nudist or have other non religious views.(non religious in that we do not believe religion play any part or its not a religious subject.)



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by spinalremain
 


I keep it quiet and don't talk about it much because quite frankly I have better things to disucss with most of my friends, and it could hurt me at work to advertise about it there.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


There are so many strawmen and misconceptions about atheism. Many who have misconceptions just honestly are unsure what atheism is. There are those, however, who know what atheism actually is who continue to attack strawmen in order to keep those with honest misconceptions in the dark.

Atheism, at its base form, is merely a lack of belief in gods. It isn't absolute conviction or an assertion of certainty that gods do not exist - it is merely a lack of belief in them.

Many falsely call themselves agnostics, I know I did for a time, because of these misconceptions about what atheism actually is. Agnostic just states your level of knowledge. If you are agnostic it means you have no knowledge of gods and their existence, if you are Gnostic it means you have knowledge, meaning you claim to know with certainty whether gods do or do not exist.

A great post and hopefully one that will weaken the strawmen that people have created to smear atheism.



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
example - Have you ever met an Atheist who doesn't advertise the fact that they're Atheist? I haven't. Atheists wear it like a badge.

Haven't read the entire thread, but I found this comment hilarious enough to want to comment on it.

How would you know if you've met an atheist who doesn't advertise their atheism if they don't advertise their atheism?



PS: Although I somewhat agree with the spirit of your comment, that some atheists seem to define themselves entirely as "Atheist", which is a bit odd. Not that other groups are immune to such behaviour.



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


You said that you use the term sky daddy in reference to non-gnostic Abrahmanic religions, but Christianity is gnostic, Jesus said in Matthew "the light of the body is the eye, if the eye is single, thy whole body will be full of light." This is clearly a gnostic reference to the third eye being one, filling the body full of light. Not to mention that the true followers of Christianity, going from the Gospel of Thomas and not the church sponsored gospels, were all gnostics, and gnostics were crucified for their beliefs. So once again, you are assuming that "official" christianity is non-gnostic, implying that every christian is non-gnostic, which is false.



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


lol you're absolutely right. The question is indeed flawed. A better way would have been .... " Of all the people you know, and are aware of their religious affiliation, how many of the Atheists do not not discuss their love of Atheism?"

Yes I agree wholeheartedly that other groups exhibit the exact same behavior. This is why I find it amusing. Typical Atheists flaunt a certain "higher than thou" mentality while they discuss how religion is mindless or silly, all the while their doing the exact same thing as the religious fanatics.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by spinalremain]



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Sunsetspawn
 


You should of read one more line down. It's ok you missed the point but im sure if you read it again....hold on.... here ya go.

"You can NOT prove God does not exist = FACT
You can NOT prove God does exist = FACT "

And i said that right after.

"But it is pure arrogance to say what most people on this post are saying (brainwashing,blinders of religion,logic,reality,and so on) so i would like to shear a FACT with you all. "



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
Here's a myth that you inadvertently reinforced

Only Atheist myth that matters - Atheist are so proud of being Atheist that they must make it the main attraction of themselves whenever they can. It isn't enough to not believe in God or gods. They have a need to discuss it all the time.


example - Have you ever met an Atheist who doesn't advertise the fact that they're Atheist? I haven't. Atheists wear it like a badge.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by spinalremain]

Exactly. It's like talking about music you don't listen to constantly.


About myth # 4. How does whoever wrote that know "why" people believe? He's just assuming they all believe on faith alone/from authority. Isn't he/she making the same blanket generalizations as in Myth # 1? What if someone is a believer because they had an NDE, etc? Saying those are the only options for believing is fallacious.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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I really despise it when people I work with "assume" I am a Christian. Or people that are total strangers, or acquaintances start quoting bible verses to me.
Growing up as a child, I went by myself to whatever church was on the corner where I lived. Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc. We moved frequently. We lived in the inner city.

I was curious about everything. I read the entire bible.

Thru out my entire life I have studied all religions. In college and on my own, and have experienced many different religions, and cultures. I did this because I wanted to find the truth.

I took my 3 children to a Universalist Unitarian Church. Here is a description of their principles. My children were encouraged to ask questions, and we did a lot of social activism.

Linken.wikipedia.org...

There is no single unifying belief that all Unitarian Universalists (UUs) hold, aside from complete and responsible freedom of speech, thought, belief, faith, and disposition. They believe that each person is free to search for his or her own personal truth on issues, such as the existence, nature, and meaning of life, deities, creation, and afterlife. UUs can come from any religious background, and hold beliefs from a variety of cultures or religions.

So I am now in my 50's and if I must label myself I would come closest to calling myself a Buddhist. No other religions make sense to me.







posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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Wow, this thread is old and dusty, but it seems like it got some activity before I got back here. I'd like to rebump it, because there have been some misconceptions of atheists going on around...well, ATS in general.

Thanks all.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 

My ONLY question really, in the final analysis is - why are atheists atheists at all, and not agnostic. Isn't that somewhat of an arrogant and presumptuous conclusion to draw? As a rational thinking person, at the very least, you would think that agnostic might be a more reasonable position, than atheist, I don't really get that part, it's very confusing.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I am a Christian and never thought any of those things. So perhaps they are not really myths at all. Also, some things, such as morals coming from God, could be more of a myth about Christians (not Christianity), as I don't think there is anyone who thinks that an atheist does not have morals because they do not believe in God. Thanks for posting, but the only thing I learned was that there are atheists who think Christians have myths about atheists. Why focus on a particular religion anyway, as far as I know, atheism is not believing in religion, not not believing in Christianity.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 

My ONLY question really, in the final analysis is - why are atheists atheists at all, and not agnostic.


Most atheists are agnostic. Agnostic atheists.

They're two different questions. Agnostic means "I don't know", atheist means "I don't believe". If I don't know if any deity exists, and I don't have any good reason to believe any deity exists, I'm going to end up being an agnostic atheist.



Isn't that somewhat of an arrogant and presumptuous conclusion to draw?


Nope, not believing in something because it lacks evidence is perfectly rational, reasonable, and far from arrogant. An arrogant position would be to say something like "All possible conceptions of all possible deities are impossible", but that would be a person who declares themselves as a gnostic atheist.

Agnostic atheism is basically the skeptical position writ religious. You don't simply accept something that someone tells you as likely just because they tell you about it.



As a rational thinking person, at the very least, you would think that agnostic might be a more reasonable position, than atheist, I don't really get that part, it's very confusing.


Agnostic is a position that is not exclusive nor mutually exclusive with regard to atheism. Atheists can be agnostic, theists can be agnostic. It's an entirely different question regarding epistemology, not belief.

I hope that cleared it up for you.

reply to post by iamaperson
 



Originally posted by iamaperson
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I am a Christian and never thought any of those things.


You are a reasonable individual then.



So perhaps they are not really myths at all.


Or you possibly never encounter these silly myths. I mean, I've seen these myths perpetuated in public talks. All of those myths have been perpetuated on ATS at some time in the past 30 days, and I could even show you specific examples were I pressed.



Also, some things, such as morals coming from God, could be more of a myth about Christians (not Christianity), as I don't think there is anyone who thinks that an atheist does not have morals because they do not believe in God.


You'd think wrong. I've heard atheists called 'moral eunuchs' by theists. I've heard us called 'evildoers', 'amoral', 'anti-moral', etc.



Thanks for posting, but the only thing I learned was that there are atheists who think Christians have myths about atheists.


Then you have picked up the wrong lesson.



Why focus on a particular religion anyway, as far as I know, atheism is not believing in religion, not not believing in Christianity.


Actually, atheism is not believing in any deity, it is separate from religion. There could be atheistic religion, like many forms of Buddhism.

And we're not focusing on Christianity, Christians just tend to be the theistic folk most encountered by most atheists in the western world, where most of the users from ATS hail from.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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1. Funny how you say you don;t like a certain group, then point out their faults, which very well could be attributed to the fallen human condition, the brainwashing/programming of this world and its system of thought, as well as an ego.

2. Irrelevant
3. Morality is ultimately relative. Its just acting within the laws of what modern society wants you to be. More social programming and brainwashing. Plus the way society wants you to be changes. You would be entirely different person were you born in Iraq, or China, or Siberia..

4. You guys might not be a super organized group or anything, but you definitely define yourself as a certain label, and since there are a small number of you out there, you are lumped into a group. Sheep-like is also within your context because through the Gov't, taxes, brainwashing, and seeing through the eyes of duality, you are still in the same sheep-like boat as all other humans who will eventually face death, have no control over fate/destiny, and will see the truth on the other side.

5. Back to the whole "belief" deal huh? Belief signifies someone just starting out on a spiritual path who are considered "babies," if that's what you like to use as a representation in contrast to yourselves then cool. On the other hand we have seasoned veterans who have been at it for quite some time and have experienced God as a direct reality, completely beyond and devoid of belief, but as a true knowingness.Perhaps one should ask themselves if they haven't been brainwashed into their own current "atheistic" stance.

6. Atheist books? Been there and done that ....Harrris, Hitchens and a few others. When I read these books it becomes obvious 1 sided biased speculation and thats it. You might have read the Bible and other supposedly Holy books ...but just reading them means absolutely nothing. There is much more to it than that like going within and finding out whats there, studying yourself, studying silence, all in a bid to become master of self or "Self Mastery." Yes very few can claim that label from both sides, but at least on this side we get help from God, something you can feel, taste, see, smell, know ...though it requires becoming tuned into like changing the dial on a radio to a different station .....a station that reveals exactly how the radio works, how its powered, and where it came from.

7. Ok ......its just the experience of being human. Everyone has that.

8. I agree life is precious and I wake up daily surprised I'm still here. But inherently as a little kid of 4-6, there was this inner knowing that this existence isn't right. I used to watch other kids play joyfully and carefree, but within me there stirred this incredibly deep philosophical questioning about the nature of existence ...at 5 years old!!!!! Seeing that we die and thats it, the faults of grown ups, the wars, the brainwashing on all sides of the fence, besides some of the other atrocities ....it has been a feeling that we live in a prison ever since being a kid. As a result I ddn't take up any creed to feel secure, but I wanted to directly experience God as a living and knowing truth beyond any thoughts, ideas, beliefs. It happened brother!!!!

Then upon experiences of enlightenments', expanded faculties, new faculties added, more of the brain in use ...it was easy to see how the body in this general state of existence is an extremely limited prison compared to what we are really capable of were people going within and tapping into the Infinite. Oh well.......were just passing thru.

9. its not exactly the belief of suffering itself, but the reality of it. If you have never suffered in any way in your life, then either your a robot, or you will eventually. Death of loved ones, sickness, health, loss of a job, and life's rollorcoaster ride in general. Even if you seem to miss all that, you may suffer a long a drawn out death whenever that happens. Its an inevitability. Ask 100 random people on the street without finding out their creed and you'll find all of them agree that they have suffered in life to some extent. What a ridiculous argument!!!!

10. The things is, humbleness and humility are key factors on most spiritual paths. I don't exactly know if these are key factors in the life of an average Atheist. Unfortunately, this world programs people to have a certain amount of ego and arrogance. Everyone starts out with alot of these factors!!!

11. We live in a free wold and you are very welcome and free to start a tax-sheltered, un-saving preaching, door to door, donation getting, bad-haircut lexus driving organization. Its your right to have this here. Just as you see a childs reason being crippled by all this, I see all children who aren't taught about meditation and going within as probably the most crippling to all of faculties regardless of creed.

12. Irrelevant. Everyone is born with a set of appreciation faculties. Whether they are used or not is a whole different story.

13. I once met a man who said he didn't fear death. It was his claim to fame around those parts. You should have seen the fear gripped look on his face when he started having a small heart attack right in front of me after eating his Po'-Boy shrimp fried sandwhich. Its one thing to conceptualize an idea or belief of not having fear about death, but when its at hand, its a completely different story!!!

14. Of course the opposite is true because Atheists are such a small number in the general population. So its only right that a small number f criminals would be atheists. Common sense.

15. I am a theist and I always question everything I have believed, studied, come to know and so forth. I always look for proof to prove my experiences wrong and have always studied atheism to test out everything I have come against. So why am I still a theist? Because to me atheism is simply a way of speculatively coming up with interesting and witty ways to go against a certain stance, having not themselves undergone the awesome direct experiences of the Absolute.

These very formulations you have chosen to side with, seem to keep you from further investigation of yourself within, of precepts, and techniques that lead to the direct experiences of the absolute. If you think you are awed by a rainbow or a beautiful day or a great meal or time spent with a love one, .... the experience of the absolute makes all of that PALE in comparison and then also enhances all of those experiences a hundred thousand fold.

As far as proof of God ....or for him to show himself ...how do you know you are not looking at him already. It is your own mind that labels, filters, and separates everything into relative form. The thought of a rock is not the actual rock. The thought of a rock is just an unreal imaginary representation of that which is already as it is without labels and more real than what you thought about it.

Now take what I just said and see how you filter all of reality with this label maker ...and ask your self again who you think you are and what you think everything is. Because God is everywhere, in everything, and everything in God. Infinity itself passing just before you daily, but because we are brainwashed and programmed to take that which we think to be more real than that which already is ....well you get the idea (pun intended)

16. While I will not argue anything "Old Testament", because I'm for theism in general ....I will say that you only think your life is your own....and the thought of "something" is not that "something." Were your life your own, you would have brought yourself into existence, you would have remembered that, were it your own you'd have complete control over all aspects of life, but you don't. No control over lusts, cravings, thoughts, birth, death, fate, destiny, and I can keep this list going for about 10 more pages if you like.

But of course my last personal favorite. You may choose not to believe in any sort of God, but unfortunately the rest of your life operates on belief. You believe you are so and so, with certain labels, with certain subjectivism, with certain likes/dislikes, that you will wake up tomorrow morning, that nothing will happen on the way to work ....and of course I can keep this list going for about 100 more pages......

The ultimate paradox: Operating through thought, ideas, concepts, and beliefs. Yet we have some amongst who say there is place beyond where truth of God is known directly without these former filters.

All in good fun Ol' chap!!!



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 



Originally posted by dominicus
1. Funny how you say you don;t like a certain group, then point out their faults, which very well could be attributed to the fallen human condition, the brainwashing/programming of this world and its system of thought, as well as an ego.


This isn't an application to all groups. Some Christians think that all atheists just hate Christians. I personally don't hate religious people because they're religious, though there are certain religious people I have a distaste for for other reasons.



2. Irrelevant


It actually is relevant. Some people think atheists are simply those who were Christian and then had a bad experience so they stopped out of spite or some other reason. This is an accusation of intellectual dishonesty.



3. Morality is ultimately relative. Its just acting within the laws of what modern society wants you to be. More social programming and brainwashing. Plus the way society wants you to be changes. You would be entirely different person were you born in Iraq, or China, or Siberia..


Agreed. But certain Christians claim that morality comes from God, therefore is absolute, and is therefore absent from atheists.



4. You guys might not be a super organized group or anything, but you definitely define yourself as a certain label,


I'm sorry, but which label is that? I'm aware of many different 'varieties' of atheists.



and since there are a small number of you out there, you are lumped into a group.


A small number? In some nations we're up to 40%! In other nations, like the USA, we number somewhere over 10%! Worldwide we are 12+% of the population. That is far from a small group.



Sheep-like is also within your context because through the Gov't, taxes, brainwashing, and seeing through the eyes of duality, you are still in the same sheep-like boat as all other humans who will eventually face death, have no control over fate/destiny, and will see the truth on the other side.


Well, that's your opinion. But I don't know what 'brainwashing' you're speaking of, I don't know how the government makes me a sheep, and I don't know how I'm seeing things as a duality. Thanks for attributing things that aren't true about me to me.



5.


Preemptive comment, I don't see how this has anything to do with the #5 I listed:


Atheists actually know, deep inside, that theres a God, as thats perfectly obvious; they are simply too proud and arrogant to admit the existence of something greater than themselves. Not exactly. You see, the existence of a god is only obvious if youve been brainwashed (either by others, or by your own irrationality) into believing it. We are truly convinced that theres no god, and are not in denial. Really. Im serious.




Back to the whole "belief" deal huh? Belief signifies someone just starting out on a spiritual path who are considered "babies," if that's what you like to use as a representation in contrast to yourselves then cool.


No, belief is a reality claim. We contrast ourselves with unbased reality claims. Instead of making a counter-reality claim to theists, we choose to not make a reality claim and not accept those that lack evidence.



On the other hand we have seasoned veterans who have been at it for quite some time and have experienced God as a direct reality, completely beyond and devoid of belief, but as a true knowingness.


Really? Well, I agree that there are possibly millions upon millions out there that agree with you...and I'm also going to have to point out that they mostly disagree with each other on the concept. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, etc...they all have people who claim to have experienced their deity(ies) as a direct reality, yet they all contradict each other.

Of course, there's also the fact that subjective experience is no basis for the acceptance of reality claims.



Perhaps one should ask themselves if they haven't been brainwashed into their own current "atheistic" stance.


No, I looked into all religions, attempted to commune with those religions openly and fully, spent some time as a Buddhist, then realized that I'm an atheist. I took the only intellectually honest answer to whether or not a deity exists.



6. Atheist books?


#6 deals with the accusation that atheists have read nontheistic material primarily.



Been there and done that ....Harrris, Hitchens and a few others.


Ok, which ones specifically?



When I read these books it becomes obvious 1 sided biased speculation and thats it.


How so? I mean, you can make these accusations all you want, but then you can't level at me...oh wait, the next sentence is against how I read the Bible, isn't it?



You might have read the Bible and other supposedly Holy books ...but just reading them means absolutely nothing.


Reading them, speaking about them with those learned in their study, going back to their original language to get a better understanding (hammered through Hebrew and Greek in the Bible, was a bit difficult to read a book word by word)



There is much more to it than that like going within and finding out whats there, studying yourself, studying silence, all in a bid to become master of self or "Self Mastery."


All in a bid to...do something that has nothing to do with those religious texts? I'm sorry, but I studied the texts, I didn't study your particular brand of evidenceless woo



Yes very few can claim that label from both sides, but at least on this side we get help from God,


No, you cannot get help from a thing whose existence is not evident. I'm not going to say that there isn't a god, but I have no good reason to accept your claims that there is. Thus, any understanding you get with help from your deity? You have to either show that it's from your deity or that it's greater than what you'd get without it.



something you can feel, taste, see, smell, know ...though it requires becoming tuned into like changing the dial on a radio to a different station .....a station that reveals exactly how the radio works, how its powered, and where it came from.


More woo. If you could feel, taste, see, smell and know (why not hear?) a deity, then it would be measurable scientifically. It would be acknowledged to be part of the realm of scientific study. And this radio station crap? I'm sorry, but I have to call it crap, it's an overextended nonsensical metaphor.



7. Ok ......its just the experience of being human. Everyone has that.


Alright then. I'll take this quick pause to say that, instead of addressing whether or not these things are myth you've gone off topic to attack atheists in one way or another without providing evidence or proof that your premise or the claims you make based upon that premise, are correct.



8. I agree life is precious and I wake up daily surprised I'm still here. But inherently as a little kid of 4-6, there was this inner knowing that this existence isn't right. I used to watch other kids play joyfully and carefree, but within me there stirred this incredibly deep philosophical questioning about the nature of existence ...at 5 years old!!!!! Seeing that we die and thats it, the faults of grown ups, the wars, the brainwashing on all sides of the fence, besides some of the other atrocities ....it has been a feeling that we live in a prison ever since being a kid. As a result I ddn't take up any creed to feel secure, but I wanted to directly experience God as a living and knowing truth beyond any thoughts, ideas, beliefs. It happened brother!!!!


So your biases were confirmed by your own journey to confirm them? Wow, that's...confirmation bias.

Now, I had a similar experience...not really similar at all actually. When I was 15ish I decided to bother reading a Bible to know my deity better. I chose it to get a better handle on my own religion...and what did I find? A book I could not support. It so shocked me that I resolved to find out the truth. I didn't know what the truth was, and I acknowledged that, so I went and looked at as many religions as I could, studied as many religious writings as I could, talked with as many religious members and leaders as I could...and I found...nothing. Just nothing.

But the Buddhists were pretty mellow and were the only ones that acknowledged that they might be wrong. So I decided to stick with that for a while. Then I realized I was using it as a stop-gap to atheism.



Then upon experiences of enlightenments', expanded faculties, new faculties added, more of the brain in use


What enlightenments? Which expanded faculties? Which new ones? I'm sorry, but what part of your brain were you using that I don't? I''m guessing that's based upon the myth that we only use a portion of our brain (any good neurologist knows what to call that claim).



...it was easy to see how the body in this general state of existence is an extremely limited prison compared to what we are really capable of were people going within and tapping into the Infinite. Oh well.......were just passing thru.


Or that's just some baseless woo.



9. its not exactly the belief of suffering itself, but the reality of it. If you have never suffered in any way in your life, then either your a robot, or you will eventually. Death of loved ones, sickness, health, loss of a job, and life's rollorcoaster ride in general. Even if you seem to miss all that, you may suffer a long a drawn out death whenever that happens. Its an inevitability. Ask 100 random people on the street without finding out their creed and you'll find all of them agree that they have suffered in life to some extent. What a ridiculous argument!!!!


No, the argument isn't against suffering. You're either misreading it or refusing to read it properly. The argument is that life isn't suffering, that life can be grand and wonderful and lovely, even with the suffering in it.



10. The things is, humbleness and humility are key factors on most spiritual paths.


Yes, the humble claim to have the absolute truth of the universe, to have expanded and added faculties, to use more of your brain.



I don't exactly know if these are key factors in the life of an average Atheist. Unfortunately, this world programs people to have a certain amount of ego and arrogance. Everyone starts out with alot of these factors!!!


Again with the random, unbased claims.



11. We live in a free wold and you are very welcome and free to start a tax-sheltered, un-saving preaching, door to door, donation getting, bad-haircut lexus driving organization.


Um..we can't really. I mean, we don't have much to talk about, we don't have any reason to meet every Sunday...and getting tax exempt status when you're not a religion? Sort of hard.



Its your right to have this here. Just as you see a childs reason being crippled by all this, I see all children who aren't taught about meditation and going within as probably the most crippling to all of faculties regardless of creed.


And I see that sort of spiritual introspection (which I participated in before) as meaningless. Introspection should be based upon what's really there, not what you wish is there.



12. Irrelevant. Everyone is born with a set of appreciation faculties. Whether they are used or not is a whole different story.


Yes, but some people think it's true. How is it irrelevant when there are people, on this very forum as well as in the world, spreading these myths about atheists?



13. I once met a man who said he didn't fear death. It was his claim to fame around those parts. You should have seen the fear gripped look on his face when he started having a small heart attack right in front of me after eating his Po'-Boy shrimp fried sandwhich. Its one thing to conceptualize an idea or belief of not having fear about death, but when its at hand, its a completely different story!!!


A personal story is not an argument. I don't fear death. I fear not living while I can.



14. Of course the opposite is true because Atheists are such a small number in the general population. So its only right that a small number f criminals would be atheists. Common sense.


Atheists are about 10% (possibly more) of the American population. They make up less than 1% of the prison population. That's a statistic that is shatteringly different than what it should be. It seems that atheists are less likely to do be sentenced to prison.



15. I am a theist and I always question everything I have believed, studied, come to know and so forth.


Except the basic premise of theism, at least so it would seem.



I always look for proof to prove my experiences wrong and have always studied atheism to test out everything I have come against.


Really? As you don't demonstrate such study.



So why am I still a theist? Because to me atheism is simply a way of speculatively coming up with interesting and witty ways to go against a certain stance, having not themselves undergone the awesome direct experiences of the Absolute.


So you're a theist...because you have a biased attitude towards atheists based upon their attitudes against what you believe...

Yeah, that's totally logical.



These very formulations you have chosen to side with, seem to keep you from further investigation of yourself within, of precepts, and techniques that lead to the direct experiences of the absolute.


Define and prove "the absolute."



If you think you are awed by a rainbow or a beautiful day or a great meal or time spent with a love one, .... the experience of the absolute makes all of that PALE in comparison and then also enhances all of those experiences a hundred thousand fold.


Ok, you can say that, yet it lends absolutely no credit to your position.

Of course, I can make the same claim about scientific understanding of the universe, and I'd actually have a basis for my claims. Think you are awed by a rainbow? Examine the scientific foundations of the phenomenon.



As far as proof of God ....or for him to show himself ...how do you know you are not looking at him already. It is your own mind that labels, filters, and separates everything into relative form. The thought of a rock is not the actual rock. The thought of a rock is just an unreal imaginary representation of that which is already as it is without labels and more real than what you thought about it.


Hey look, baseless metaphysical ramblings! How do I know I'm not looking at a deity? Because there's no good reason to assume that I am.

As for the labels. That such speak is what you readily encounter in 1st year philosophy students who have not understood what they study. It shows a most primitive understanding of metaphysics and philosophy of language and mind. The thought of the rock may not be a rock, but the description of that rock allows me to understand what it is.



Now take what I just said and see how you filter all of reality with this label maker ...and ask your self again who you think you are and what you think everything is.


You know, I'm in my third year of studying philosophy at a University level and I really find this amusing. When people ask me these silly questions, as if realizing natures of language and mind is going to change things. I know who I am, I know what I am. I've studied extensively into it.

The problem here is that you're trying to implement something along the lines of philosophy without using the main tool of philosophy, reason.



Because God is everywhere, in everything, and everything in God.


Or we can just say that the universe is everywhere, in everything, and everything is in it. Why throw out arbitrary labels when you're arguing against non-arbitrary ones?



Infinity itself passing just before you daily, but because we are brainwashed and programmed to take that which we think to be more real than that which already is ....well you get the idea (pun intended)


I get the idea quite well, you've got an oddly basic view of philosophy that's allowed you into the new age trap.



16. While I will not argue anything "Old Testament", because I'm for theism in general ....I will say that you only think your life is your own....and the thought of "something" is not that "something."


Well, I'd disagree with you. Of course, you're going to bring up undefensible positions, so that will be easy.



Were your life your own, you would have brought yourself into existence,


I'm sorry, but that is not true. That is actually a non-sequitur. It's a statement where the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise



you would have remembered that,


Again, a furthering of the same non-sequitur. You have no logical standing to make this claim.



were it your own you'd have complete control over all aspects of life, but you don't.


Again, a non-sequitur. How does ownership over your life mean that you have omnipotence over your reality?



No control over lusts, cravings, thoughts, birth, death, fate, destiny, and I can keep this list going for about 10 more pages if you like.


And I can give you a clear rebuttal in a few sentences, mainly because Sartre already did it for me.

Our lives are our own for a simple reason: We can choose. Even in the face of contingent circumstances, we always have choices. If I am a man sentenced to die by firing squad in the morning, I still own my life. I own the way I face my executors, I own the way I spend my last night. I own whether I shout my brains out, weep, or decide to scrawl along the walls. It's all up to me, and that is my life.




But of course my last personal favorite. You may choose not to believe in any sort of God, but unfortunately the rest of your life operates on belief. You believe you are so and so, with certain labels, with certain subjectivism, with certain likes/dislikes, that you will wake up tomorrow morning, that nothing will happen on the way to work ....and of course I can keep this list going for about 100 more pages......


And I could rebut further statements in several statements as well. These are not beliefs in the same way one believes in any deity. Nobody on this planet can both be intellectually honest and claim to know that a deity exists. On the other hand, I can be intellectually honest and claim that energy is equivalent to mass times the speed of light squared without compromising a thing.

The subjective aspects of this world are not reality claims. Saying you prefer brown bread to white bread is a personal taste, not a reality claim. Saying that your favorite movie is Casablanca is another one. But that subjectiveness in no way compromises your intellectual honesty.



The ultimate paradox:


Isn't going to be a paradox, just to let everyone know. Hell, it's not even going to be an 'ultimate' whatever it is.



Operating through thought, ideas, concepts, and beliefs. Yet we have some amongst who say there is place beyond where truth of God is known directly without these former filters.


No, that is not a paradox, that's a baseless claim.



All in good fun Ol' chap!!!


Why the random cockney?



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 



This isn't an application to all groups. Some Christians think that all atheists just hate Christians. I personally don't hate religious people because they're religious, though there are certain religious people I have a distaste for for other reasons.

Ok cool .....so at least were no stero-typing anymore when you say "some Christians."



It actually is relevant. Some people think atheists are simply those who were Christian and then had a bad experience so they stopped out of spite or some other reason. This is an accusation of intellectual dishonesty.

Ok well this is some people, and not all. Cool so we move on.


Agreed. But certain Christians claim that morality comes from God, therefore is absolute, and is therefore absent from atheists.

This could be put another way. Since you are a creation of God whether you like it or not (or in your case whether you believe so or not) ...in this case since you are made by God then your Morality is already inherent as a by-product of having a soul. Whether or not you ever spent some significant amount of time to see within if there is a soul ....well I lean more towards you didn't ...but I'll leave the assumptions aside.

For Morality to be absent from Atheists would require that morality disappears on the onset of choosing to not-believe in God and that's completely null and void since there was no belief or thought what-so-ever as a new born baby. You whole system of thought is established through education by the world's system be it religion or atheism.

While I personally don't believe morality is absent from Atheists ......I do believe it is systematically programmed into us. But I also believe were you to strip away all programming and find out an original truth or experience of God within and without ...that a set of morals would become extremely obvious in that case ....i.e. do not harm others, treat others as yourself would like to be treated ...I'd even go as far as to say vegetarianism, and so on. Either way this topic alone can be and has been on many occasions, a separate thread. I'll leave it at that.


I'm sorry, but which label is that? I'm aware of many different 'varieties' of atheists.

Well since the title of your thread is "16 Common Myths About Atheists" I had automatically deducted that you see yourself, as others do, as an atheist. In this case it is a label that is attached to you. Even if not by yourself, then by others. If you do not consider yourself tan atheist, then why did you post this thread?


A small number? In some nations we're up to 40%! In other nations, like the USA, we number somewhere over 10%! Worldwide we are 12+% of the population. That is far from a small group.

The point being that you are a minority ...which proves my point that the general prison population will also reflect these numbers. Case closed!


Well, that's your opinion. But I don't know what 'brainwashing' you're speaking of, I don't know how the government makes me a sheep, and I don't know how I'm seeing things as a duality. Thanks for attributing things that aren't true about me to me.

By brainwashing ...I mean that you were educated by your parents, society, creed, culture, school system, television, and that current knowledge base of the world correct? If yes then its all brainwashing.

Duality. Do you see yourself as separate from others. Do you see the moon as separate from earth. If yes then your mind filters all things through duality.

I believe the above is still true about you am I right?....except that you won't agree that like everyone else ...you've been brainwashed speaking in terms of you living in a biased, subjective, and filtered state of mind.


Preemptive comment, I don't see how this has anything to do with the #5 I listed:

never mind then ...you dont seem to comprehend the context of what I wrote there. We'll get back to it perhaps some other time.


No, belief is a reality claim. We contrast ourselves with unbased reality claims. Instead of making a counter-reality claim to theists, we choose to not make a reality claim and not accept those that lack evidence.

ANd yet you too, wake up everyday believing you will get to work on time, that the latest finding in science is hands down without a doubt true, that you will wake up tommorrow ....and on and on.

You say unbased reality claims ....but those that have taken the voyage and found the direct experience of God ...say he experience is devoid of any belief, thought, or idea about it ...that It is and is of itself real regardless of belief and yet having not made the journey there yourself ......you simply rely on your crutch being the choice to not believe in anything. Ok - in my dictionary its speculation on your part.

Evidence - You won't find God as a material being or under a microscope ...so if your definition of evidence requires science to prove God .....then we might as well use science to prove true Love, to prove consciousness, to prove life objectively.



Really? Well, I agree that there are possibly millions upon millions out there that agree with you...and I'm also going to have to point out that they mostly disagree with each other on the concept. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, etc...they all have people who claim to have experienced their deity(ies) as a direct reality, yet they all contradict each other.

Can you show me such contradictions by those who have claimed to experience God directly? You see most are in agreement on the specifics of the direct experience of the Absolute. Something that would not be taken as serious is a killer who says he heard a voice tell him to kill someone and attributed to the voice of God.


Of course, there's also the fact that subjective experience is no basis for the acceptance of reality claims.

ANd yet we have science ...which is basically a whole bunch of subjective experiences by scientists (tests and their results) ...all in agreement with each other ...then solidified as fact. But when a whole bunch of spiritual people are in agreement with each other on direct experiences of God ...(which by the way ends up being the experience of objectivity, since God is omni-present,) ...and yet we can disregard this? Laughable double standard.


No, I looked into all religions, attempted to commune with those religions openly and fully, spent some time as a Buddhist, then realized that I'm an atheist. I took the only intellectually honest answer to whether or not a deity exists.

I on the other hand was an atheist and took the intellectual approach as well. I found in my decade long search that some books and some folks who went to search for God ...found there to be realities, realms, states of being that are completely beyond and better than the intellect and that God is beyond thought (which intellect is based on). I looked and lo and behold I found faculties and states that make the human intellect look like kindergarten show and tell, not mention finding the direct experience of God which is basically pure Objectivity since its all things at once.


#6 deals with the accusation that atheists have read nontheistic material primarily.

I got you. I was simply saying that those books are mearly sign posts, to lead one directly into these higher faculties.


Ok, which ones specifically?

God Delusion, GOd is Not Great, End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation ...and about 3-4 others by a few other prominent authors.



How so? I mean, you can make these accusations all you want, but then you can't level at me...oh wait, the next sentence is against how I read the Bible, isn't it?

Not true ......I was once an atheist and knew all the apologetics and arguments and how to debunk any theist. Its all straw in comparison of the experience of God though. ANyone can read the Bible froma neutral position and walk away neutral, positive, or negative about it. But thats not what its about. OT was how they thought back then, them putting their ideas on what God is and what he does, taking sides etc. Then NT changes all that and there are recipes for enlightenment in there.

Anyone can read a recipe and yet never cook whats in it. Simple enough.


Reading them, speaking about them with those learned in their study, going back to their original language to get a better understanding (hammered through Hebrew and Greek in the Bible, was a bit difficult to read a book word by word)

Which goes hand in hand with what I just wrote above this. You studied words, languages, and what others think. Thoughts are not whats real ....but the real is real. Like I said, not only can you get a recipe from somewhere but you can also study the ingredients, those that have made it, and ask others what they think about the recipe. But cooking it yourself and tasting the result directly is always what its all about.


All in a bid to...do something that has nothing to do with those religious texts? I'm sorry, but I studied the texts, I didn't study your particular brand of evidenceless woo

Seems like a bunch of excuses, justifications, and theories to keep your label in tact. Whatever suits you. Its all there in black and white if you studied it ....yet its very esoteric ...whereas you could have studied it all and only walked away with the exoteric meanings.


No, you cannot get help from a thing whose existence is not evident. I'm not going to say that there isn't a god, but I have no good reason to accept your claims that there is. Thus, any understanding you get with help from your deity? You have to either show that it's from your deity or that it's greater than what you'd get without it.

Not evident perhaps to you..... if your claims of proof require your version of reason, logic, and intellect(all relative) then we might as well just stick to scientifically trying to prove Love and Consciousness. Its basically when we learn to garden ...the sun, the water, the soil, the nutrients help plants to grow.

Tune into God ...and the higher faculties, the transcendence, the Love(amongst dozens of other items) all help to remove the impetus shackles of mental programming this world extorts onto its inhabitants. I'm not saying this as a theory but as direct experience having lived this as a reality.

When I recall my state as an Atheist, reading every book I can get my hands on, mentally probing philosophy teachers in college for hours on end, letters, emails, debates ..........compared to now ........Its like waking from a deep slumber.


More woo. If you could feel, taste, see, smell and know (why not hear?) a deity, then it would be measurable scientifically. It would be acknowledged to be part of the realm of scientific study. And this radio station crap? I'm sorry, but I have to call it crap, it's an overextended nonsensical metaphor.

There is the filter. You've decided that things you cannot grasp are Woo and so to be rejected. Whereas philosophically speaking on the quest to find absolute truth, nothing is rejected not even that which cannot be grasped.

It took science how long to study the Quantum fields? Even consciousness was taboo for the whole life of "Science" and is now just slowly gaining acceptance as a field of study. So how long do we have to wait til we are studying God? ...another 1,000 years I suppose.

Still in consciousness studies, there is an area in the Brain that lights up for those who are in deep meditation and experiencing God....... which are not lit up for those who do not have this experience. Also certain areas in the brain light up when we eat an apple. SO we cannot say that the area lit up for the God experience is just imagination ...but yet cannot say that is something that is objectively real ...not just yet.

But at least they are making strides in this field now. Google is your friend!!!


Alright then. I'll take this quick pause to say that, instead of addressing whether or not these things are myth you've gone off topic to attack atheists in one way or another without providing evidence or proof that your premise or the claims you make based upon that premise, are correct.

Not attacking ......simply giving an alternative perspective to your "Myths about atheists" being that I am a theist and an experiencer of God.

As far as Evidence ...you hold that word in a certain perspective that perhaps revolves around your vesion semantically of what this word means to you. "Evidence" 1,000 years ago would be alot different to you than it is today, just as your version of "Evidence" would be different 1,000 years from now. "Evidence is relative, whereas God is not relative to anything .....God just is.

Yes once can experience this Is'ness and tap into it. I already explained the double standard of "subjectivity" in science as opposed to spirituality. Just like Scientists have to go to primary, college, and post graduate facilities to be respected in their fields. So too does the man who has experienced God have to go through years of deprogramming, mediation, philosophy, going within, observing the mental faculties, and walking a sort of tight rope to "get there".

But again you've accepted "Woo" as "that which does not compute," ....and so the ones who this does compute with, continue to provide the alternative option ....which is to provide ways to experience Absolute Truth directly. Everything else besides this is speculation, ideas, concepts, theories.

By the way ...my experiences of God fit very well within the findings of Quantum Physics, Bose/Einstein condensate, and a vast number of other findings.


So your biases were confirmed by your own journey to confirm them? Wow, that's...confirmation bias.

Nope not at all ......the destination completely stripped me of all biases, subjectivism, ego, self-consciousness and brought me a state prior to any programming and brainwashing ...a state completely beyond words because no definition would hold a candle to the awesomeness of "That."

But in order to make points, to argue your stance, to show a different perspective ...requires for the sake of this convo ......putting on certain masks and stances for the sake of showing them. If that makes sense.

THe experience of God is the stripping away of all biases, subjectivism, ego .....and is unadulterated absolute truth ...all angles, all ideas, all theories, and non of them at the same time. The great Mystery!!!!


Now, I had a similar experience...not really similar at all actually. When I was 15ish I decided to bother reading a Bible to know my deity better. I chose it to get a better handle on my own religion...and what did I find? A book I could not support. It so shocked me that I resolved to find out the truth. I didn't know what the truth was, and I acknowledged that, so I went and looked at as many religions as I could, studied as many religious writings as I could, talked with as many religious members and leaders as I could...and I found...nothing. Just nothing. But the Buddhists were pretty mellow and were the only ones that acknowledged that they might be wrong. So I decided to stick with that for a while. Then I realized I was using it as a stop-gap to atheism.

One of the biggest breakthroughs I had in my path ...was when I found out that this "Nothing" that you say you found .....is just a mental idea, a concept, a big giant imagination ....non of which is reality because when I lok around stuff is there, nature, people, existence itself. Nothing is not what you think it is.


What enlightenments? Which expanded faculties? Which new ones? I'm sorry, but what part of your brain were you using that I don't? I''m guessing that's based upon the myth that we only use a portion of our brain (any good neurologist knows what to call that claim).

Transcendence, an unbiased view when studying arguments, objectivity as an experience, timelessness, a faculty that seems to take in Infinity as a living reality and apply all perspectives through it, seeing that the mind is not I, nor is the body, seeing where thoughts come from and how they operate, auras, fore sight ....the list can go on for a while. Been down this road many times ...when these faculties started invading my being ...I asked atheist friends about them, and theists who had not yet gone down the road I went(and found none of them to have these) .....and also those that did go through what I went who already had these faculties (they did have these and knew exactly what I was talking about)

Subtle things these faculties. Try to explain something on your level of intellect ....to someone who has less intellect and see how good you fair. Which by the way none of this makes anyone any better than anyone else.


Or that's just some baseless woo.

Lol ...."does not compute" = Woo ...yet others get it. Perhaps its you and not the explanation?


No, the argument isn't against suffering. You're either misreading it or refusing to read it properly. The argument is that life isn't suffering, that life can be grand and wonderful and lovely, even with the suffering in it.

Ok. Agreed. Yet had you manage to remember pre-existence, as a unit of awareness .......this would all seem so limiting, yet we can experience here what we cant in other forms. Ice Cream, breathing, a beautiful day, as well as death, losing loved ones, etc.


Yes, the humble claim to have the absolute truth of the universe, to have expanded and added faculties, to use more of your brain.

It is what it is. You see it how you want ...but what you think of it, is not what it is. Thats why humbleness and humility are required ...because once these other things set in ....its very easy to be Prideful based on ones Spiritual achievements.

Im just stating that this is real and accessible by everyone and comes with many many perks that give one many advantages in this life. Just because I say these things happened to me and that Absolute Truth can be experienced ......does not mean in any way that I by any means think Im better than you. It means that I would literally give up my house, everything I own, everyone I know ...just so you can get one little glimpse of Absolute Truth..... thats how awesome it is.


And I see that sort of spiritual introspection (which I participated in before) as meaningless. Introspection should be based upon what's really there, not what you wish is there.

Well then you missed the point. You labeled it as meaningless and justified getting away from it. The Mind is a trickster. In fact, what really happens upon spending alot of time going within, is that what you thought is "really there" reveals to be not what you thought. And that "what you wish is there" as also an unreality.

But you've already made your conclusions I see.


Yes, but some people think it's true. How is it irrelevant when there are people, on this very forum as well as in the world, spreading these myths about atheists?

There are myths about everyone and everything being spread. Its always been like that and will continue to be so for quite some time. It is completely out of your control and absolutely nothing that you nor I nor a bunch of us banded together can do anything about. Why? Because it is a characteristic of the average human mind to do so based a number of justifications and motivations ....just like your use and meaning of the word Woo is a myth to me.


A personal story is not an argument. I don't fear death. I fear not living while I can.

A personal story can be whatever you make of it. A lesson, an argument, true, or not. You live regardless whether you can or not and its completely out of your hands. Only thing you can do is pepper it in ways that you like.



Atheists are about 10% (possibly more) of the American population. They make up less than 1% of the prison population. That's a statistic that is shatteringly different than what it should be. It seems that atheists are less likely to do be sentenced to prison.

Is this in the world, or just U.S.? I'm sure these number fluctuate. Regardless, I will say that at a certain age, it does take a certain level of wrestled with intellect to be an atheist. Intellect definitely gets a work as far as all the philosophizing and critical thought. Others just seem to operate on faith which very well would mean less intellect in use but more trust and heart. I mean this can go sooooo many ways if we really sit down and look at it. I can come up with at least 100 different theories that would make each side pissed off.


Except the basic premise of theism, at least so it would seem

Touche. Well then considering I have gone beyond any need for belief in a diety and experienced this directly as an absolute truth....... perhaps I can be in a different category: "Those who claim to have experienced...."


Really? As you don't demonstrate such study.

Funny ....because I can bring into a room at least 15 individuals, book authors, university professors, and many others that you would hold in High esteem intellectually that would say that I definitely know atheism and its arguments. It would be very easy for my to refute every argument in anyone of Hitchens or Harris' from the perspective of Objectivism being God, as just one characteristic, amongst any others.

Of course only those who have experienced God would get it.


So you're a theist...because you have a biased attitude towards atheists based upon their attitudes against what you believe... Yeah, that's totally logical.

One side speculates ....the other side, I am representing, says they Have experienced the truth directly and as a result Atheism is a sham. Its impossible for me to not claim this because this is truth, not just to me, but to others who have looked where I looked.

Everyone else hasn't looked there....... Regardless I don't care one bit about your attitude towards those I represent or towards me. At the end of the day, I can let go of any biases from having experienced God ....knowing that is truth. All I can say is an "Experiencer" is beyond a Theist.


Define and prove "the absolute."

Lol ...Ha!!!! How does one define and Prove Everythingness, Infinity, and Eternity if all of that stands alone and on its own and does not rely on anything for its existence? Not to mention it takes quite some time and energy for one to strip one's self of all of the worlds programming and brainwashing.

These are words, around which you already have your ideas and theories. But the real things themsleves are beyond what you think of them. I can think about a hot future girlfriend all day long, but I'd rather have the real thing directly.


Ok, you can say that, yet it lends absolutely no credit to your position. Of course, I can make the same claim about scientific understanding of the universe, and I'd actually have a basis for my claims. Think you are awed by a rainbow? Examine the scientific foundations of the phenomenon.

Yeah ...the scientific explanations are full of awe to me as well..... But to add more Woo .......been there and done that ....the explanations create ideas/thoughts/theories in the mind ....none of which are the real thing.



As for the labels. That such speak is what you readily encounter in 1st year philosophy students who have not understood what they study. It shows a most primitive understanding of metaphysics and philosophy of language and mind. The thought of the rock may not be a rock, but the description of that rock allows me to understand what it is.

It may be 1st year philo 101 for you ...but the whole "thought" is not "reality" deal actually helps one to experience Absolute Truth. You've already concluded it to be a certain way but have not appreciated the beauty and ramifications of what that means that not only are you not that mind, but you are not what you think yourself to be ...

...and yet jumping to conclusions, you continue through the filters of a limited mind. Like I said there is a time a place for understanding the details .......but when it comes to life, Love, God, Sex, Food .....I'd rather experience the truth of it ....than to have ideas and theories about it. You dont seem to get the significance of this.


I know who I am, I know what I am. I've studied extensively into it.

HA ....really .....? please do share than because I can extensively refute any of your answers and turn them into a pulp. You say this statement and then we have the brilliant Socrates, whom I obviously hold in much higher esteem than I do you who said:

— This man, on one hand, believes that he knows something, while not knowing [anything]. On the other hand, I - equally ignorant - do not believe [that I know anything]."

Please do share.


The problem here is that you're trying to implement something along the lines of philosophy without using the main tool of philosophy, reason.

Not neccesarily. Its just a specific style. Reason alone is enough to conclude that reason is limited. Reason led me to believe that there may be something beyond it, beyond subjectivism, beyond biases, etc And so I went off and looked everyone I possibly could, every argument, every debate, every idea .....most of it is circles and one gets nowhere. But investigating the self, where thoughts come from, watching the watcher, seeing the seer, meditation, testing prayer, etc ......led to an experience of the Absolute all initially motivated by reason itself!!!!


Or we can just say that the universe is everywhere, in everything, and everything is in it. Why throw out arbitrary labels when you're arguing against non-arbitrary ones?

Semantics. I can't call God "Universe" because universe seems to connotate among the populace the idea of lack of God ...whereas the experience itself lends this Infinity to be alive, and timeless, and as an original source, and loving, amongst a vast number of other characteristics. Semantics is the problem.


I get the idea quite well, you've got an oddly basic view of philosophy that's allowed you into the new age trap.

What is this new age trap? I came to all these experiences through Christianity and Baptism ...then later saw the philosophical truth in Advaita Vedanta, Dzogchen, Neo-Platonism, and Tao. All of these latter subjects completely solidified the experience of God and what it means, let alone what Christ taught about ego death and Enlightenment.

If this is all basic philosophy, (as you've chosen to label it) ...then please do share with us what advanced topics you yourself are studying that I have not mentioned or you think I know nothing of. If its out there and accessible (especially at Uni level), I've studied it.


I'm sorry, but that is not true. That is actually a non-sequitur. It's a statement where the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise

Ok I'll re-phrase myself. Show me control of death, control of reality, the ability to take away cancer from a loved one, the ability to avoid all "accidents" in life. Tell me, what day and year will it be when that body you think is you, will pass away? Point made? No control over the most Vital parts of life.


Again, a non-sequitur. How does ownership over your life mean that you have omnipotence over your reality

If you "own" something ...you should be able to do with it whatever you want within the frameworks of the rules of nature, existence, and reality correct?


And I can give you a clear rebuttal in a few sentences, mainly because Sartre already did it for me.

Our lives are our own for a simple reason: We can choose. Even in the face of contingent circumstances, we always have choices. If I am a man sentenced to die by firing squad in the morning, I still own my life. I own the way I face my executors, I own the way I spend my last night. I own whether I shout my brains out, weep, or decide to scrawl along the walls. It's all up to me, and that is my life.

I can refute this as well, in the words of Siddharta Guatama and many other sages who experienced what I have. Paraphrased'

"Choice is an Illusion"

You merely think you are choosing, and the thought of something is not the reality of what is. The illusion that its your life and you get to choose certain aspects of it, is what everyone is brainwashed and programmed into believing. I go on for pages about this, but personally it seems to stand on its own.

You can even study Parmenides who said that we can use Reason to come to a conclusion that choice is an illusion, that there is only what is and what is is One thing, amongst many other brilliant observations.


No, that is not a paradox, that's a baseless claim.

All claims start out as baseless claims until proven to others. I was one of the others, who this was proven too, having myself read of their claims. Heck we dont even have to call it God .....there is something here Infinite, eternal, awesome, expansive, and being aligned and aware to it and of it, makes life the best that it can be.

Maybe you just dont like the word God and the meanings that people give it.



Why the random cockney?

dont know what cockney means ...but assumption says its some witty jibberish? All in good fun Ol' chap ...been saying that lately since I work around alot of Brits off and on here in the states



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 


Its always exciting to see someone who has gone through a similar journey.

I think my only "regret" (if you can call it that) with my decade or so stint with atheism was not searching it out for myself sooner. i did search it out, but its amazing how quickly we give in to our own thoughts and convictions on such things, isnt it? I think the turning point for me was thinking to myself "Well, what evidence could there even be?" And i told myself to uh.. sh#t or get off the pot! Why am i waiting for someone else to tell me about my own being and experience? "I am going to show how to reach "enlightenment" without the "crutch" of a god." Interesting discovery for me down that path!
I certainly figured out what all the hubbub was about.

When i realized (..) (i also enjoy the term Dumpling) was something i could deny no more than i could deny my own breath and heartbeat, i was shocked to realize just how free of a will we actually have. Two philosophical birds with one stone


As far as the thread goes, there are just as many myths atheists have about christians (i dont even say religion, as they tend to only focus on that group) as christians have about atheists. I really view it as two sides of the same coin, though as a whole, atheists are much more obsessive about christians than the other way around. Neither will really get there as every word and thought we use to figure (..) out brings us one step further away from (..) Interestingly, the core ideas of the religions themselves point to a personal journey, but i couldnt see it from my vantage point at that time.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by iamaperson
 



Originally posted by iamaperson
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I am a Christian and never thought any of those things.


You are a reasonable individual then.



So perhaps they are not really myths at all.


Or you possibly never encounter these silly myths. I mean, I've seen these myths perpetuated in public talks. All of those myths have been perpetuated on ATS at some time in the past 30 days, and I could even show you specific examples were I pressed.



Also, some things, such as morals coming from God, could be more of a myth about Christians (not Christianity), as I don't think there is anyone who thinks that an atheist does not have morals because they do not believe in God.


You'd think wrong. I've heard atheists called 'moral eunuchs' by theists. I've heard us called 'evildoers', 'amoral', 'anti-moral', etc.



Thanks for posting, but the only thing I learned was that there are atheists who think Christians have myths about atheists.


Then you have picked up the wrong lesson.



Why focus on a particular religion anyway, as far as I know, atheism is not believing in religion, not not believing in Christianity.


Actually, atheism is not believing in any deity, it is separate from religion. There could be atheistic religion, like many forms of Buddhism.

And we're not focusing on Christianity, Christians just tend to be the theistic folk most encountered by most atheists in the western world, where most of the users from ATS hail from.


Atheism is not believing in deity, indeed, sorry. Christians would be the theistic folk you encounter, yes. I just did not see any reason for anyone to think that a person who does not believe in God does not have morals. If there really is a substantial number of people who believe that, then I guess these really are myths then, I just didn't know about them. If they are myths, I guess you busted them



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