Where Can I Go When Chaos Ensues?

I've been making moves for the past year in order to get where I am now. I fully realize the difficulty that lies ahead. I've got my family mentally prepared and have found a nice spot in the mountains about an hour and a half away. Keep in mind the many, many factors. With all the advances in satellite technology and aircrafts wizzing by, realize any shelter you dwell in should be ideally under a rock formation, or at least covered THICK with brush. Also, I used google earth and research to find an ideal spot. Check over some areas on the map. See something good? Look it up. It would suck to find out once you get there, that you've got a bear trap every 5 feet due to it being a popular hunting area. Resorts, etc are also a no go. If possible, physically scout it out and familiarize yourself with the area first, taking note of anyone you may encounter - they might get the same idea, someday.

I'm in Idaho. To tell the truth I've been looking a long time for some like-minded individuals. No man is a mountain. Upon the event of Marshal Law, note that as others have stated, major roads will be blocked first - and very quickly. Other areas will have general patrols (with increasing blockage), but this is no video game, and if you're caught making the wrong move too late, you don't get to start the level over again.

I live in a small city in the Northwestern U.S. and can't see myself moving unless a disaster occurs nearby. Fortunately, we have vast tracts of wilderness all around us in the case of an immediate emergency. I would head right for the Bob Marshall Wilderness!


If a police states forms, I think you will be surprised by the comraderie that forms between like-minded groups of people. There will always be an underground network of activists fighting for change. The relationships we form now will be increasingly important if a dire situation ever arises. I don't see myself hiding away, but rather at the forefront of the crisis.

Personally, I'm not going to put much thought into this.

When a crisis hit, there are a lot of things to wonder about and plans to make, like for instance for those of you with families, gathering everyone together, the kids may be at school, you may not be able to get to them immediately.

Also for all of you planning on leaving and traveling, you may not be able to do that, so you need an alternate plan if you can't travel to the destination you have in mind, you need to plan for survival where you are as well.

Also you may not be able to take vehicles, you may have to walk or bike, a ton of MRE's are not going to do you much good. Taking a survival course now might be a good idea, learning how to survive with the least amount of gear will be key if you have to walk or survive on your own for a long period.

Learning about what, streams, animals and plants inhabit the area you intend to survive in and what is safe to eat or use for meds would also be key.

Most areas have what is known as state land meaning no one, but the state ( all taxpayers) owns it and you can't be shot for trespassing.

Your ability to provide yourself with water, food and shelter is going to be key to survival, if you are going to go to a strange place with little knowlege of the area, and how to survive, your chances are not good.

I'm lucky that I already live in the mountains and can just walk out the backdoor to the woods and to a place that is sheltered and is isolated and I grew up in this area, but even with that I don't expect to make it long without some serious survival skills.

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO


I currently live in a semi-rural area. Plenty of water and game. I built my own house with some "special" add ons. I too have three younger children. For the most part we will just stay here through most any SitX.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I like the saying Bear grills uses about survival and I think it pretty much fits any survival situation.

"The ones that make it in survival situations are the ones who are prepared to step outside of their comfort zone".

Translation= If you are weak at heart or have a type A personality you will most likely not make it. You must be willing to adapt and do whatever it takes.

On the subject of running for the hills. I know its instinct to want to run for the hills in a disaster. Key work being instinct! EVERYONE is going to initially have this idea. Most likely half the population Will go into hiding and it will be allot of desperate people walking around in the woods with guns.

To me this is an even worse scenario. People in the wilderness will most likely shoot on site out of desperation and and not think twice.

I watched an old 50's movie about just this very subject. A nuclear attack happened and a middle class working man took his family out to the wilderness to get away from the chaos and when he got there more and more people were showing up.

It turned out to be like a man hunt in the wilderness. People killing each other for their supply's. To me this is totally plausible and something you should think about when picking your place.

Double post......My bad

[edit on 4-1-2008 by Digital_Reality]

reply to post by leira7


Well anywhere you happen to be is as good as any other...even right in the middle of a big city...if you plan right that is...

I know a lot of people will say out in the country or up in the mountains but millions of people will have the very same idea and flock there in droves... you can bet you bottom farms and ranches will become battle grounds in bloody battles for food...

So lets say your stuck in a city wile all everything goes to hell around you? If you have a years worth of food and water that should get you past the worst of it... the huge raging fires should be smoldering embers by then. the riots should have moved elsewhere. There will still be a lot of armed gangs praying on the helpless so you'll want to be armed. but you could survive there was well as anywhere else...maybe even better seeing as you know the terrain, that beats being lost in the woods....

it all comes down to pick where you want to make a stand and plan plan plan

I've always been considered financially poor, and right now, I'm REALLY outside of anything you could call a comfort zone. It's a small popup with no bathroom, running water, etc. I think it's important for anyone who believes they want to try and attempt to endure these things should really make an effort to say piss on their possessions and comfort outside the very bare necessities. I remember as a kid living in a trailer park when a tornado hit. We were without power for two months and it was mid-summer. All the little things you'd normally take for granted then become a mission. A mission in ingenuity, if you will. For about two weeks some friends and I made a shack by a river we stayed in. It got so hot in the trailer park I'd sleep there. While as a kid this is all fun and games, it gives you perspective and understanding.

Ever since then I'd longed for the outdoor life once more. It beats this 9-5 work schedule bull#. People were meant to gain experience the natural way and explore a variety of trades. When you remove that from the human nature, the human nature finds other things to fill that gap.

Basically, I realize this may sound corny, but from the sum of my experience, I feel like I was born to do this.

reply to post by DaddyBare


I don't know DaddyBare. Today, most people equate food with grocery stores. In a true civilization changing scenario, I think that most of the fighting would be in turf wars where the processed food stuffs are. Even when it becomes apparent that the food supply is waning inside the cities (which at this point would be decimated to much less than their original population) I still don't know if people will suddenly turn toward the countryside in search for food. If they do, I would think that it would not be a marching army of ravenous hunter/fighters, but rather half (or more) starved, scared and less than completely coherent individuals or small groups looking for anything to eat and drink.

Smaller towns would probably show more of a tendency to turn to the countryside as they are more closely tied to the agricultural/husbandry endeavors.

Most people will probably try to stick closely to familiar territory, especially in a crisis. Just look at the unfortunate case study with the people in New Orleans, even when the levy's had collapsed and the flood was rising, few people even made an attempt to exit the chaos because, yes, it was no longer safe, but it was still familiar. You can watch Youtube videos of people weeks after the collapse, still going to the grocery stores and walmarts etc combing the shelves for whatever they could get. It was sad, because there was only garbage there, but it was familiar and all they knew.

an aside:
One cannot help but wonder if this was a live trial exercise that the powers that be used in studying behavior in such an unfortunate incident, but regardless, it was an effective, and very telling, study.

This is one of the arguments against being a so called "armchair survivalist". While we all think that we are above average hunters, thinkers, make-doers, survivalists etc, unless the skills of killing an animal for food, or living off the land, or getting my go-bag and bugging out, or living without simple electricity is actually practiced with as much realism as one can muster, one can really not be sure of the true nature of the consequences or action/reactions or mindset that one will encounter or have to endure if (when?) such a scenario occurs.

reply to post by leira7


I think the best and safest place for a person to stay where they're at. Bug-in until it becomes unsafe or impractical to do so. You already know your neighbors and you know the terrain. Any outsider will be at a disadvantage.

Make preparations for at least 3 months without any outside assistance, more if you can afford to do so. Arm yourself, learn a few self-defense skills, buy a good knife, brush up on your survival skills (fire-starting, first aid, water procurement, navigation, shelter construction, etc), assemble a good bugout kit with maps of your intended bugout area. It would be nice if you had done a few scouting expeditions to the location prior to needing to do so as well.

If you can make it through the first Winter, half the population will be gone due to starvation or exposure. The competition will be less intense and resource more plentiful.

Most of all keep a positive survival attitude. Your mind is your greatest weapon in any situation.

[edit on 18-1-2008 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by LLoyd45


Very well put!

I completely agree. If we end up having a true TEOTWAWKI SIT-X level 5 etc etc, it will not be like Mad Max for very long. Either the situation will be resolved and order will be restored, or many people will unfortunately starve or die of the elements or exposure (especially during the first winter in the north) or maybe a combination of both. Regardless, there won't be many mouths to feed for long after the SHTF.

reply to post by HYRYSC


I think one must remember the goals of the "MAN" and one of those includes reducing the population. So I think if you prepare yourself and can survive the first year or two things will get better as the population is decimated. YOu just need to stay off the radar as long as possible.

reply to post by leira7


I agree 100% about staying away from populated areas. In any natural, man made, or martial law situation, you are going to have to pull resources from the area that you are in to survive. Even if you are in a very small town situation you are going to have to hunt, garden, and use your resources to feed yourself, family, and also, possibly, an influx of people that are coming there for the same reason you are. The average American is not prepared!
Personally, I prefer the bush idea. The key thing to think about in a bush(wilderness) situation is, how many people can the land you are on support. This is why alot of the American Indians were nomadic. Lets take for instance the Red River Gorge area in Kentucky. You have ample water and shelter, but with the game animals in the area, and limited gardening potential - it can only support around 100 people, for the whole area, and there is a government chemical and biological dump and hour away. If you are in upstate New York, or the Pine Barrens in New Jersey there is ample water and shelter, but very limited game, and if it is a radiological, chemical, or biological incident the game and water may not be edible or usable.

Prepare! Prepare! Prepare!
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

Happy New Year. It's been a while since I've posted.



Bugging out should be your choice of last resort. Unless there's a nuclear war or real global environmental catastrophe, you shouldn't move/bug out unless there's an immediate physical threat ala ravaging hoard/natural disaster. Unless the Man is absolutely in your face, keeping a low profile,conserving energy and resources will increase your life-span greatly. That doesn't mean turning the other cheek or running away to hide either. You need to choose your ground to fight. A place with a functioning town patrol, be it law enforcement or militia will likely be a better survival site than a lone campground in the wilderness. Ravaging hoards won't last long against any form of organized defense. If you choose to be a resistance fighter against an occupation, they best place to resist is within the system not from the outside.

Originally posted by leira7
I have been reading up on survival strategies from this forum and other sources for some time now. Though I am no expert in it, I feel I can fair better than the average american. The one thing that has begun to concern me is this quesiton: Where can I go when it is no longer safe to live at home? When civilization turns into a police state? Or when it becomes an every man for himself mentality in which people are willing to take another's life for a meal? Will there be a safe haven? Will there be a place I can count on ? It makes me sad that I can't come up with a single one.
Do any of you all have any ideas?

Sweden and Canada. They will not be harmed.

I give the survival span of most people from 6 months to a year. If you can stay home and keep your head down it might be best. Just remember any who survive after that will be a very tough lot. The rats and roaches of society will probably fare the best watch for them.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
So what do you all think Tennessee Mountains or North Georgia? We are ready to get a plan together and start working on some action, we live in North Ga. a suburb of ATL but still considered slightly rural but not rural enough for us. We are thinking of a move up to Tennessee mountain area, within a hour of knoxville, very rural.
I can think of a lot of pros for Tennessee but 1 con that gets me are the very cold winters and snow in the mountains, Georgis gets cold but no snow and the cold snaps are usually never longer than 3 or 4 days.
We have 3 small children and this worries me if God forbid we lost a heat source in the mountains.
Am I being overly concerned about this?
What do you all think Tennessee or Georgia?

Being concerned about freezing during the Winter is a legitimate fear.
is there adequate wood to provide the needed BTUs available at you're proposed bugout location? Also keep in mind that the harvesting of wood will be a clear sign of your presence to others. I like Tennessee and Georgia myself, and I'd imagine so do millions of others.

If it seems like an ideal location for hunting & trapping, and has a readily available water source, you'd better believe somebody knows about it. Set you up a few trail cameras, and see what you get. You'll probably be shocked to find out how well known the area is. Inhospitable is what you want. People are like electrons, and take the path of least resistance. If there is an easier way of doing something, that's the path they'll take.

Think about trapping. you set your snares and traps on well established game paths because that's the route most of the animals use. It's well established and easy to travel. To make sure they become ensnared, you put little obstacles along the sides of your trap to funnel them into it. Animals like people also look for the easiest way out. Would you walk along a well establish trail in the woods, or take out your machete and hack your own path? I'll bet 90% of the people would be diddy-bopping along the established trail..

reply to post by LLoyd45


Lloyd this can be used both ways. We both know that people use the path of least resistance. If you make the path difficult or hard to follow they will go elsewhere. You can lead people away just as you can lead into a trap. It is worth thinking about. I have used blackberries to keep out people from the rear of my property. No one wants to really go through, it just isn't worth the effort if you don't know what is on the other side.

respectfully

reluctatantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn

That's a great idea using natural defenses to secure a perimeter. Maybe instead of blackberries though which some may be tempted to pick, let a few thorn trees take root or introduce them. They'll cut you to shreds in a heartbeat and their poison stings like crazy!

Thanks for the idea Reluctant. That's what I like about forums, lots of good input from people who may be thinking more outside the box than you are.

reply to post by LLoyd45

Every bit counts. I am learning a lot from the garden post myself. It is out of my area of expertise. I have a good bit of knowledge in primitive lifestyles and survival techniques but farming hasn't been one of my strong suits. These posts make us all a more complete individual and improves the collective chances of all.

respectfully

reluctantpawn