Is there a hidden second moon orbiting earth not to be told about?

If you follow the Wiki link offered in the original post, you'll find this jewel of a comment:

the actual physical existence of this astronomical object is believed only by fringe groups comparable to the Flat Earth Society

how much power would it need to stay in orbit with the necessary course corrections? they also need life support (climate control and atmospheric considerations.) how long has it been there (apparently a very long time if it has roots in astrology)? how long will it be there? i'm more inclined to agree with the "twaddle" side of the argument.

Are there any known photo's of this second moon? Have any of our satellites gotten a picture of it?

Originally posted by an0maly33
how much power would it need to stay in orbit with the necessary course corrections? they also need life support (climate control and atmospheric considerations.) how long has it been there (apparently a very long time if it has roots in astrology)? how long will it be there? i'm more inclined to agree with the "twaddle" side of the argument.

Greetings. I did a simplified calculation assuming that the alleged moon stays in its non-keplerian orbit by means of jet propulsion. In that, I assumed that the nozzle velocity of the gigantic engine installed there is in line with the average 3000 m/s.

The force F developed by a rocket engine is equal to:

Ve*mdot,

where Ve is the velocity of the jet and mdot is the amount of mass ejected per second. The force needed to keep Lilith in its alleged orbit is equal to:

p*omega, where p is the momentum of Lilith and omega is the angular velocity which is claimed to be the same as Moon's. Since the alleged radius of the Lilith orbit is 2 to 3 times larger than the Moon's, and the orbit is therefore so severely non-keplerian, we can neglect the gravity component for sake of simplicity (one can make this correction if needed).

The above equations lead to an elegant form,

mdot/m=omega^2*r/Ve

Plugging in the numbers, we find that it will take Lilith a few weeks to completely evaporate because of the need to maintain the thrust to stay in a non-keplerian orbit.

Where art thou, Lilith?

Here's a somewhat interesting space.com article on the subject:

www.space.com...

It suggests that there may be a few small, stray moons that occasionally appear and leave. Space is a busy place.

Thanks for your work on the calculations and research, I have a more general question, I would like to know how come nearly every time a idea is put forth regarding aliens interacting with man kind sometime in the past it's always tied to white men and Atlantis. Why?

Originally posted by RuneSpider
Thanks for your work on the calculations and research, I have a more general question, I would like to know how come nearly every time a idea is put forth regarding aliens interacting with man kind sometime in the past it's always tied to white men and Atlantis. Why?

Unfortunately, people often have very limited imaginations. Also, the whole advanced ancient civilization/master race thing was co-opted by the Nazis pretty early on, so whenever it pops up, a lot of the references tend to drift back to the whole comic book Aryan/Nazi/Atlantis/Alien thing.

wHY CANT WE SE IT IN THE DAYTIME I CAN SEE THE MOON IN THE MORNING

what about the astronauts that claimed to have seen a base on the dark side of the moon, could they have ment not on the actual moon, but on that side?

just a thought.

The force F developed by a rocket engine is equal to:

Α Class III interstellar civilization, capable of building warplanets or terraforming system planets, will be still using rocket engines???

[edit on 5-12-2007 by skeptical2012]

For certain, if an artificial dark moon is out there behind the visible moon, the mechanics of how to navigate it were among the first problems solved before it ever even arrived here at earth. If it's there, "they" know how to fly it. If it's not there, no understanding of its physics are even needed, I would think.

Maybe he saw the planet Gor?

Forgive me for saying this- Its Death Star!! Of all the years people have been studing the stars and planets they just now notice this new moon. Come on give me a break.

Nasa has been taking lots of trips lately- makes you wonder what is really going on. Who knows this may seem crazy it could be a base but who knows. Think about it there's rumors of Area 51, Dulce base etc.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
I would like to know how come nearly every time a idea is put forth regarding aliens interacting with man kind sometime in the past it's always tied to white men and Atlantis. Why?

I think you need to go back and read some more as aliens have been connected to several different races throughout history. Ever heard of Egypt?

That's not to say I support or refute any related accounts but as far as this extra moon thing is concerned, I find it highly unlikely.

Let's look at this idea... a second moon in a line with the present moon and the earth, never straying, save to duplicate the moon's ellipical orbit.

It is supposedly 3 times the distance of the moon, so the orbit would be physically impossible to maintain without it having an energy source for course corrections (as has been shown above), even without the eccentricity.

I like Nohup's idea. It would be fairly easy for a NEO to masquerade as a 'second moon' long enough to be spotted by a few excitable individuals. I don't think it could be some sort of spaceship, since it would require constant power and would probably not provide any benefit to it's creators. They couldn't see the earth, since the earth can't see them.

I'm torrn between Nohup's NEO and twaddle...

TheRedneck

When someone named 'skeptical' is talking about counterclockwise mazer technology tapping into the Sun it is time to close the browser and go outside.

reply to post by KaiBosh


Just had to login and Laugh ,KaiBash, hahahaha that is such a good idea. hehe.

By the way, I think something that big would affect the orbits of both Earth and moon and scientists, Astronomers, are pretty good at determining gravitational anamolies, especially when it relates to Earth, so I call bunk.

There are many things to consider with the possibility of something orbiting the Earth, or a second moon. Clearly it has been proven that there are other "moons" orbiting Earth at times. They come and go and are basically just asteroids.

The debunking must be aimed at this "second moon" actually being a spacecraft of some sort. Is that so hard to believe? BS tried to prove why it would not have the power to stay in its orbit, yet it is quite obvious that they would not use propulsion power, but their own source of gravity.

It was also pointed out that it is considered "fringe" science; not mainstream science. Does that destroy its credibility? Not in my eyes. The theory of the world being round was at one point "fringe" science.

Also, it is thought to have a connection with the cylinders orbiting Saturn. Someone said those were the shadows of moons of Saturn, which does not make any sense considering they were seen with infrared, and shadows do the opposite of produce heat.

So debunking this is not as easy as using what I would consider fairly primitive technology and math, when compared to the level needed for long distance travel. As far as any of us know, we do not even have the technology to send a human to Mars.

If there were any official findings of a starship by Earth, they would not disclose that information. Who is going to say to the people, " NASA has found a battleship 1/4 the size of the Moon orbiting Earth."

Good find OP.

Originally posted by skeptical2012

The force F developed by a rocket engine is equal to:

Α Class III interstellar civilization, capable of building warplanets or terraforming system planets, will be still using rocket engines???

Α Class III interstellar civilization, capable of building warplanets or terraforming system planets, would not bother hiding from pesky humans, don't you think?

Besides, even Class IV and Class V ultra-mega-intergalaxy civilizations capable of building War Galaxies and terraforming Betelgeuse are subject to laws of physics, and thus conservation of momentum. So there must be a huge exhaust of something projected into space to keep Lilith in orbit... and that is bunk...

[edit on 5-12-2007 by buddhasystem]

BTW we get all of our energy directly or indirectly from the Sun. Everything in our solar system does the same, and my guess is so would a ship. Funny, thats how our space station has the power to stay up there for years.