It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by bronco73
reply to post by DeadFlagBlues
you are using some guy who didn't have enough business sense to keep a small company of 12 trucks afloat as your evidence, and you are calling me the genius?
Whether you like it or not, we pay a smaller percentage of our income on gasoline now than we did thirty years ago, it is a fact. You can "bitch, moan, and fight the welfare of my situation" all you want, but it will not change the fact that you are getting a very good deal, especially on what is termed to be a non-renewable resource. Cows shoot out milk by the trillions of gallons per year, yet you gladly pay more for that than gas. I live 7 miles from my work, and it costs me less than 3 bucks a day to get there and back. That my friend is a good deal. I bet you don't say a word when you shell out 60 or 70 bucks to take your sweetheart out to the local cinema for a flick and snacks, do you?
Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Seriously? If you were serious you wouldn't have bothered to continue this argument that you are losing. How nice and well intentioned your little buddy is is irrelivant. There are lots of nice guys and lots of not so nice guys that seem to be able to keep their trucking companies afloat. What kind of argument is "he's a nice guy so that means gas is too high". Now, as far as people having to drive 30 miles to work, you absolute bafoon, a car that gets 30 miles to the gallon (which most do now) will cost you a big 6 bucks a day. Again, that is a very low cost to get to work, a very good deal.
You don't believe you are getting a good deal on gas?
As far as your cites go, I can't believe you actually wasted 2 days digging this drivel up.
In your first stupid cite the company is not closing down, and it even outright states their cost of 36 cents per mile, which by the way is much better mileage than your buddy that works 30 miles away. The company is also quoted as saying he "predicts that some independent truckers will go out of business this year", where is your smoking gun of all these companies folding?
In your second stupid cite I found this quote: "Gasoline prices are expected to fall from more than $3 a gallon to $2.58 a gallon by the end of the year if there are no further disruptions in supply, according to the federal Energy Information Administration." Wow, you really picked a winner here! Gas prices going down!
Third stupid cite: Lots of travellers are feeling the pinch of gas prices. Wow, what a killer cite this one is. If the gas is so high, why are they still travelling? Funny they can afford the trip, yet bitch about the price of gas.
Fourth stupid cite: milk and cheese are expensive too. Wow, you blew the lid off with this one. That's what I said in my original post, but you went off on some rant about a nice buddy with bad business sense going out of business.
A bushel of corn that went for about $2 a couple of years ago costs about $3.50 today.
"In 2004, I bought a gallon of milk, it was a $1.63," Williams said before heading into a Wal-Mart in Savoy, Ill., about 140 miles south of Chicago. A gallon of milk cost nearly $3 a gallon last month in her area.
A couple of years ago, Williams would spend about $250 a month on one big grocery trip. Now she says she's spending $250 on big trips every two weeks.
The price of oil affects just about everything that is made, transported, eaten and sold in the United States. But with oil approaching $100 a barrel, the impact on the U.S. economy has been less than many analysts expected.
Fifth stupid cite: the cost of moving from Miami-Dade to Broward County will cost customers an extra $35. Woo, an hour and a half worth of wages more to move to an entirely different county. Come on pal.
Sixth stupid cite: This is a direct quote from your little cite (what's with the Durrrrrrrrrrrrrr? you having stuttering issues or something?) "So might higher oil prices tip the economy into recession? It's possible — that's what happened in 1973 — but most economists say it's unlikely this time." Of course this moron didn't bother to tell the whole truth, that adjusted for inflation the gas now is cheaper than it was in 1973. That might have something to do with it.
There are thousands upon thousands more cites if you want more shame, but I will leave it there for now. Now, the fact still remains that we pay LESS of a percentage of our money now for gas than we have in thirty years. Your buddy with the trucks is getting a better deal than his predecessors. Your friend that lives 30 miles from work earns more compared to the price of gas than his father did. YOU PAY LESS FOR GAS NOW, period. Go cry to somebody else you little tit.
I wasn't bringing him into the conversation as an example of personal business management, or for him to be #'d on by some condescending person trying to manipulate my words to make an irrelevant assertations. The reason why I brought him into the conversation to display what is happening to average Americans all across the country, from all walks of life. "Though, we may have it "good" considering the other parts of the world. We've dealt with extreme inflations that are affecting every single one of our lives. It doesn't make sense to come at us because you're paying 7 dollars a gallon in your country. That's your problem. This is ours.
I hate to ruin your day, but I didn't spend more than 15 minutes on my response. To be entirely honest, I forgot about it until I checked "My ATS." And trucking is just a small part of it. Gas regulates every aspect in our country in terms of cost. The consequences of a rising gas prices are vast and far reaching. Especially on trucking companies, but also on every staple material or food that is shipped within the country. Gas prices are a base component and with it being purposely inflated to create sudden mass profits, it creates a chain reaction with every staple component of our livelihoods. That isn't far for America, let alone everybody else.
That's a very small portion of the article and it's to save face or to reserve public opinion about the subject. It IS the end of the year and we're currently on the rise by 12 cents. Price gouging also becomes especially apparent during the holiday seasons. That article wasn't a "truth" but were only citing the Federal Energy Information Administration, which have been saying gas prices will decrease since 2000.
Do me a favor and look at this chart and tell me why we shouldn't be outraged? Do you notice the beginning of the spike begins around the year 2000? What important American event had taken place in 2000? The inauguration of President George W. Bush. Part of his justification for going to war was the promise of lower gas prices due to the availability of crude oil in Iraq and Afghanistan. In retrospection, it's been quite the opposite.
Gas is a necessary evil. We're not going to stop traveling, because we can't afford to stop traveling. We shouldn't have to consider driving to see our families for the holidays. After all the false promises, we should be outraged, and the blatant gas gouging all around the United States should call for extreme reforms of OPEC policy.
That makes a considerable impact on your average American family. You can laugh and mock the seriousness of the situation, but it stands as a valid point for every American.
You continually take minimal derivatives from the article, and use them as your emphasis. This is really almost entirely irrelevant.
Look at the chart above. We're not off by much, and all that is compounded by the our weak dollar and climbing inflation of staple goods. It's really not that hard to see, and I don't understand where your difficulty comes in.
Your pompous demeanor is laughable in itself.
Winning an argument based on twisting words around, taking irrelevant portions of the material, and displaying your sentiments as if they should be held in any respects is also a joke.
Your personal attacks also show insecurity within your argument. And your argument, one of which is almost entirely based on opinion.
Your opinion is just that and has no bearing on how that affects my life or the lives of my fellow citizens. You don't take into account the buying power of the dollar or any of the other variables that you should have before subjecting us to your trivial splurge. You seem to have a handle on pointing out inconsistencies in the subject material, but have done nothing but badger me about my personal view on the matter.
I don't have to manipulate your words, and my assertion is very relevant. If the price of gas is truly the cause of his going out of business, the evidence would necessitate a majority of the other trucking businesses also closing shop. That is not happening. You have it good compared to the rest of the world, and even the rest of the world seems to be able to keep trucks rolling. Think about it. By your own admission your problems are much smaller than theirs, yet they can manage.
That's right, trucking is a small part of it. And when looking at the entire picture you should see that the price of gasoline and diesel in the USA is incredibly cheap, and it is much cheaper than it should be. Again, I assert that rather than complaining, you should be rejoicing. You pay about 2 bucks a gallon for the gas that you burn on the way to starbucks, where you pay 30 bucks a gallon for a latte.
A shocking 37 million Americans live in poverty. That is 12.7 per cent of the population - the highest percentage in the developed world.
I'd hardly call it price gouging. It's more like giving you less of a good deal. And with the price per barrel of oil dropping 20 dollars over the last 10 days, I have a hunch that the administration is right.
"The huge profits are enormous because the public is drastically overpaying what it costs to produce,"
"These gains come from pain at the pumps that the American people are feeling," said Sen. Byron L. Dorgan (D-N.D.), who introduced the measure. "These profits are far beyond that which these corporations would normally earn.
You shouldn't be outraged because you are paying less for gas than almost every single thing you purchase.
If you cannot afford the gas, as is your assertion, then you absolutely cannot afford to travel. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot call for any reforms in OPEC policy, it is their policy, it is their oil. The arrogance of a demand like the one you have just made is astounding.
If you feel it is a valid point, yet discount the proven fact that you still pay a lower percentage of your money for gasoline than you have in the past 30 years, then this discussion is pointless.
Your next information is also pointless because you (or the original authors) did not adjust any of their costs to inflation, where I am sure you'd see that you are getting a darn good deal there as well.
No, it is very relevant. The average american income has increased more compared to his cost of living than any person of any country on the planet over the last 30 years. That cost of moving hurts your wallet less than anybody elses, anywhere. That is very relevant.
Your dollar isn't weak, your dollar is strong. It just isn't as strong as it used to be. Maybe you have gotten yourself too used to having more disposable income than you really should have? Welcome to the real world, it will get worse for you before it gets better.
If you review this thread you will see that it is you who started with the personal attacks. I just went with the flow. My first post was polite and without flames.
You are amazing. Show me one cite I've provided, or one statement I have made that is in error. Just one.
That's right, my comments have no bearing on you. The reality of the facts I put forth however do. When you are paying for your gasoline what everybody else pays, you will have cause to complain. Crying about it now makes you look like a spoiled little child, and you started the badgering, I just played your game.
This is the last time I'm going to give you evidence
It's is cheap in "comparison" to other markets,
This is the reality. The majority of the middle class aren't going out for triple latte macchiato's. They're trying to pay 4 dollars for a gallon of milk and other staple goods that are rising exponentially. A five dollar coffee is the least of "our" worries.
No, it's obvious price gouging is taking place...
We all should be outraged knowing that the quality of our lives is being played with...
Travel is necessary and an everyday part of life.
ust because gasoline peaked in '78 doesn't mean you can use that as a benchmark from there on out. It did come down and we are paying more now than we have in the past 62 years with the exception of the "crisis of '73" or the oil shock of '81.
Haha, and now you're accusing me of plagiarism?
The money has increased but that is compensating for the decline of the dollar.
My sentiments were also spirited and with a joking manner...
The "strong" dollar, cheaper gas than our predecessors, are some of the things you have said that come to mind...
Your facts are opinions. "You're getting a good deal." That's your opinion while I'm watching our "good deals" float an entire people into obscurity, widening the gap between the wealthy and the poor, causing drastic inflations on every part of American life.
This is not time for comparison as it is a time for empowerment. We must educate ourselves on these everyday manipulations and stand up for what is right. Whether it be America, England, Spain, whoever and where ever these same actions are affecting deserve to be know and these careless actions being taken that affect the lives of anyone deserve to be rectified one way or another.
Your argument has been that trucking companies are closing down because of high fuel costs. This cite failed to even mention one, and it goes on further to state that fuel costs to trucking companies aren't even the number one cost. Labor is. Which lends credence to my claim that you earn more now compared to the cost of fuel than you have in the past.
I hadn't initially brought up other countries, you did. My original claim, and the one I have been arguing for since the beginning is that you pay less at the pump compared with your income than you have in the past. It is a claim that you are very good at avoiding debating. Yes, you have it way better than other countries, so I can see why you strive to make it somehow irrelivant even though it is.
If you'd like I will provide a cite for every one of yours that says not only are you not being gouged, you should be paying more. This one is a tit for tat that nobody will win. What you are failing to do is look at the bigger picture. Better technology, better transportation, better refining, increased demand, increased consumption are all contributing factors to oil company profits. And, you are ignoring the fact that government taxation is an even larger chunk of what you pay at the pumps.
You want quality of life? Stop driving. Walk, ride bike, jog, take bus, move closer to work. All will give you better quality of life than cheaper gas.
Again, if you cannot afford the gasoline, then you cannot afford to travel. Make other arrangements, like move closer to where you want to go. Furthermore, gasoline has always been "monopolized markets", you think the oil companies just figured that little tidbit out now? What has changed exactly?
This is untrue. First of all, my claim is that as a percentage of your income the inflation adjusted gas price is lower than ever, and I am correct. Your chart does not take your increased income into account. This chart only shows that you pay more dollar wise, completely ignoring income, which has risen further.
irrelivant. You are spending money on gas in house, a buck is a buck everywhere in the USA.
Originally posted by bronco73
reply to post by DeadFlagBlues
Whether you like it or not, we pay a smaller percentage of our income on gasoline now than we did thirty years ago, it is a fact.
Had this gas tax hike been enacted in 1978, the situation we face today would be radically different in several ways:
* Increased gasoline prices would have spurred more rapid development of fuel-efficient automobiles and alternatively fueled vehicles such as electric cars.
* Oil consumption would have been reduced by about 600,000 barrels a day, leading in turn to lower oil imports (now climbing to 50 percent of U.S. consumption). Lower oil imports would have enhanced our industrial competitiveness, not to speak of national security. Energy imports accounted for nearly 40 percent of our $109 billion trade deficit last year.
* Air pollution would have been reduced significantly. Although transportation-related emissions make up only a portion of total carbon dioxide emissions, a 30 cent gas tax increase in 1978 would have reduced by over half the increase in total carbon dioxide emissions between 1978 and 1988.
* The Federal treasury would have received more than $250 billion over the past 12 years. These funds could have been used to reduce the deficit or to address other critical needs, such as rebuilding America's transportation infrastructure.