German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


Ive visited their church about 3 times now as a "guest" who "only wants some information".

The first time i was pretty young and went in with a friend of mine while we were slightly drunk. They sat us into an empty movie theater and showed us a film on "the mind control conspiracy". But the film was so cheaply made and stupid, we couldnt stop laughing. One of the door guards came in and said "are you not enjoying the film" and we laughed even more hysterically. We both got kicked out.

The second and third time I went in, I was repulsed at how sticky and pushy they were. They finally persuaded me to write down my name somewhere, but I wrote down a false name. Once i said: "Uh, before I buy this product, I wanna go get money from the ATM. You know what they did? They had someone ACCOMPANY me to the ATM machine.

If they dont change their sales and recruitment strategy they are not be going to be getting any intelligent members anytime soon.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Gosh, Ive said a lot of crap during my life. But for some, if they say only one single thing wrong, make one single mistake, they are ripped apart by fanatics.

I agree, in most cases. We all make mistakes and say things we don't mean, or we word things badly. But this is different. As someone else stated, Hubbard made this statement of intent before setting up his religion. It is a mistake in the sense that it makes a laughing stock out of his business venture. This statement unmasks his heist. If someone were to say "I could make money really quickly if I stole someone's credit card details", and then turn up a week later in a new Porsche inexplicably, would what he said have been merely 'in humour', or 'just a harmless mistake'? Could we not quite rightfully expect to discover that this person had actually gone and stolen someone's credit card details?

As for the thread topic, I actually disagree with the banning of Scientology. Your Chomsky quote represents my views well. At the very least, I would never support the banning of Scientology without the equal banning of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. They're all as bad as each other.

Another side-note:

In my early twenties I used to be into the crowleyian ordo templi orienties occultic kind of stuff. The reason I started looking into materials written by Hubbard in the first place, was because he had apparently ripped off Tons of secret material by Aleister Crowley and re-worded it to his own name.

The written material he ripped off from various mystery schools and secret organizations is quite interesting.

reply to post by Skyfloating


See. Right there proves to me they're not to be trusted and they're definitely up to something. Every time I think of Scientology, I think of those corny 70's cult flicks about red robes and candles.

I stick to my guns and those people will forever be on my #list.

i remember reading somewhere that when Lrhubbard died , he was doing massiv ammounts of psyc medicin ( mdma or someother stimulant ) and fornikating with boys on his ranch , heart failiur

i bet there was a not so big stirr when he died they just cleand the place and made the leader look glorius in death.

could be that there is a hint of truthiness in his works but for most part its pure SF,

what was his famuos quote , ?

oh yeah

“If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion.”


GoodJob germany all i can say

Scientology is about one thing, and one thing only: MONEY

It takes advantage of a lot of stupid people who NEED to believe in SOMETHING (anything) in order to be able to live with themselves. Once you're in you can't really leave because they make it hard, and you'd have to admit to yourself that you behaved like a stupid lemming jumping of a cliff while being part of Scientology.

It's a pseudo "church" taking advantage of stupid people for money.

I'm all for freedom of belief and speech...but Scientology is so clearly a fraud, I wouldn't blame any government for banning those muppets.

Oh...and..."ZHE ALIENS ARE COMING IN DC10s!!!! EBIL THETONS HUMPING OUR LEGS!!!"

[edit on 5-12-2007 by MrXYZ]

Good then you can think for yourself and I am on your side with the tech.

You post because they don't know who you are. That is fine.

I did so at first myself but they know who I am now.

I am not against you and I understand why you don't post. But alas I also understand the other side as well.

I am glad you are still communicating to all out here.

Originally posted by anxietydisorder

SURPRISE !!!!

I have posted again, and no, I was not called in by the church. They don't even know where I am, they can't contact me, and they certainly can't expel me.

Also, Scientology does not have any Hell...



I see the thread added a few pages since I clicked on it last, so I guess I have a bit of reading to do to catch up.

reply to post by FredT



LOL...

EVERY (maybe except budism...) religion is a commercial enterprise that takes advantage of vulnerable people.

I´ve tought about suing the vatican church for employing mass control techniques on human beings, or for fraud ... nless they could prove in court the existance of god and that everyting theuy clain its true.

I would demand that every bible and every speach regarding religion must have a disclaimer stating that it is based on fiction and any similarity with the reality should be considered a mere coincidence...

LOL

this would be hillarious

fred

There isn't a religion in the world that is not made up of human beings.That is where you will find the main difficulty, for Man is flawed. Com on now, let's face it. Look around you in the world and tell me that this planet isn't a roller coaster ride with wackos and then half baked and not so bad. Show me a religion where the members are 100% together in the rafters department. It takes all kinds. In fact, the original Church of Scientology that predated David Miscaviage was all about handling that very problem. That Man is flawed. Dianetics addressed just what it was that made Man tend to be stuck in a particular attitude towards life, have problems with the family unit (marriage and kids), not know what he wanted to be when he grew up, or miserable, or stupid , want to kill another human being, and the list goes on and on. The subject, Scientology, addressed these problems without the use of drugs. In fact that was another issue Man had. Drug addiction. So I find the subject of Scientology to be quite useful in understanding these type of human problems and how to terminatedly handle them. Other religions are about worship. Scientology is about helping out human beings while they rediscover the fact that they are not bodies, but spiritual beings.
If Germany bans Scientology, who will be banned next? Come on, you all know that this is nothing more than a hit to stop a religion that is probably for the first time in modern times getting people to shake out the cobwebs and see what is going on around them. Some governments don't like people waking up.

reply to post by anxietydisorder



i thought you were church so I am sorry I was wrong but I don't defend them but they can choose what they wish.

Mira can as well. I am older so she has to think for herself.

I let my own son choose for self as well and he mostly is not into it.

Anyhow I was wrong about you. I thought you were church.

reply to post by Interested009


You said it better than I and I will leave it to you to continue this discussion.

I took courses before DM was in but not long before the takeover so I can't argue this very well.

all religions are not "man-made", as someone put it. the major christian churches are descended straight from peter's acceptance from Christ.

i dont want to preach-- to stay on topic, i applaud Germany.

years ago i read over the course of 3 days EVERYTHING about $cientology i could possibly get my grubby hands on (PRO and CON). "what if they have the answer", i thought.

my search was a waste of time. they dont have an answer for anything. it IS a cult. in other main religions, you arent required to PAY for spiritual enrichment. in scientology, you MUST, to get on your "bridge" to enlightenment.

its such ridiculous crap and truly is founded on second rate science fiction stories, written by a man who was a compulsive liar, a tax evader, an alcoholic, admirer of Aleister Crowley (sp), and an enemy of the US government. he created the "SEA ORG" (more stupid terminology) to remain in international waters so the US govt couldnt nab him.

i say to the scientologists-- think rationally. you cant tell me you dont have your doubts about all this money youre spending for auditing and such.

good for Hamburg-- they are not being intolerant of a religion, but they are smart enough to realize a destructive, controlling scam, which is what the "church" of $cientology is. one last thing---> xenu.net

The U.S. should do the same. It's unbelievable that this cult got a tax-exemption from the U.S. government.

All you have to do is Google "Scientology & deception" or "Scientology & murder", etc., etc., etc. and each search will bring up pages in the 100,000's.

A little online research will make Germany's decision seem very wise indeed.

Everyone has their opinion and opinions are based upon emotional wishes and desires mostly. Very few are actually based upon credible truth. But soon, in just a few short little whiles, everyone alive will know who and what God is and who his chosen son is. Everyone will also see whom God acknowledges as his chosen. It isn't something that is going to be left for interpretation or opinion.
Be very careful expressing hateful rhetoric toward true Christians. YOu will find out that the supreme power of the universe is for them. It is much wiser to remain silent and ready to understand. Today is a day of salvation. Today if you hear his voice harden not your hearts. You could wind up on God's side and live forever. cantyousee

I think all religion should be ban, all books burned and then watch how many wars will cease. Religion is the downfall of this planet.

I also believe that humans should be eradicated from the solar system. We are nothing but trouble.

reply to post by skynet51


That's opinion.


What's the true downfall? Religion or human nature?

I put my money on the second.

Does it actually matter if Scientology is a religion or not? No matter what the church has done, it doesn't make any sense to ban the religion. The scientology religion and the church of scientology are two separate things. One is a set of ideas and the other is an organization.

I am a scientologist but I would love nothing more than to see the church fined for everything they have and shut down. But saying that we should ban ideas is a bit much. You have to think about the way you are wording these statements. If scientology was banned, the following would be illegal:

Sitting down and talking to someone about their problems.
Predicting a person's behavior based on a common emotional trend.
Telling another person about past traumas.
Describing "understanding" as the combination of affinity, reality and communication.
Looking up a word in the dictionary when confused while reading.
The use of logic as defined in the Data Series.
Giving birth in silence.
etc., etc., etc., etc. - I could go on forever

Scientology addresses such basics of life on such a wide scale that you would effectively be banning nearly everything under the sun even if you were only banning the use of the technology rather than the teaching of the ideas.

As has already been mentioned, sometimes people word things wrong and it comes off in a way that is not intended. I really doubt anyone on this forum wants to actually ban all these things. So maybe we can come to an agreement here that banning the church is okay (so long as they go through the proper judicial procedures) but banning the ideas and the use of scientology should never be allowed by anyone who respects liberty.

reply to post by gigaplex


We're talking about the church as an institution, don't be confused with the semantics of this whole dicussion. Believe what you want, but the church in itself has to go.

I am not confused. There are some people that want to ban scientology, the religion, and they will say, "I want to ban scientology" and that is exactly what it means. It is not a minor detail. It is a world of difference.

I could only imagine if scientology was banned and this forum was no longer allowed to practice the following scientology...

There are 5 primary ways for a relay of information or a situation to become illogical.
1. Omit a fact.
2. Change sequence of events.
3. Drop out time.
4. Add a falsehood.
5. Alter importance.

That was from the Data Series. Or what about getting rid of this (also from the Data Series):

...pluspoints are very important in evaluation as they show where LOGIC exists and where things are going right or likely to.

• RELATED FACTS KNOWN. (All relevant facts known.)
• EVENTS IN CORRECT SEQUENCE. (Events in actual sequence.) TIME NOTED. (Time is properly noted.)
• DATA PROVEN FACTUAL. (Data must be factual, which is to say, true and valid.)
• CORRECT RELATIVE IMPORTANCE. (The important and unimportant are correctly sorted out.)
• EXPECTED TIME PERIOD. (Events occurring or done in the time one would reasonably expect them to be.)
• ADEQUATE DATA. (No sectors of omitted data that would influence the situation.)
• APPLICABLE DATA. (The data presented or available applies to the matter in hand and not something else.)
• CORRECT SOURCE. (Not wrong source.)
• CORRECT TARGET. (Not going in some direction that would be wrong for the situation.)
• DATA IN SAME CLASSIFICATION. (Data from two or more different classes of material not introduced as the same class.)
• IDENTITIES ARE IDENTICAL. (Not similar or different.)
• SIMILARITIES ARE SIMILAR. (Not identical or different.)
• DIFFERENCES ARE DIFFERENT. (Not made to be identical or similar.)

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by gigaplex

 

We're talking about the church as an institution, don't be confused with the semantics of this whole dicussion. Believe what you want, but the church in itself has to go.

Just to get this crystal clear:

No one here wants to ban scientology, including DeadFlagBlues, correct?