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German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban

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posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Scientology was the creation of a madman.


Were you his psychiatrist? What credentials do you have qualifying you to make such a statement? Or is it that they don't agree with whatever belief system you follow, so that automatically makes them "mad?"




I'm a normal person. Based on the belief that a giant alien was enslaving all other aliens in the universe or killed them with hydrogen bombs and were cast into a volcano, in turn creating all life on earth just being a reincarnation of alien souls, giving us super human power like reading minds and talking to animals doesn't sound all the reasonable to me. Huh.. I don't know why that would be?




posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Or is it that they don't agree with whatever belief system you follow, so that automatically makes them "mad?"


That coupled with the brainwashing, kidnapping, murder, lawsuits, harassment and god knows what else they get up to.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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And I think it's missing what all religions have, or at least too late to be relevant. That is common morality. I'm a humanist, but I believe that religion has tried all it can to install some key morality into this world. Religion in it's bare form only wants the best for people and the prosperity of those around them. It is then torn apart by the opinions and mistakes of human beings, book after book, after book. Religion should only be allowed to go so far, and Scientology definitely doesn't deserve the kind of recognition it gets as being legitimate in any way, shape, form.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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"If organized religion is the opium of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe"
– Kerry Thornley, The introduction to the Principia Discordia

Take THAT organized religion.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 09:26 PM
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EDIT: Sorry, please delete / ignore this post.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by TheoOne]



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Flyer
 


The Scientologists who say "only the new posters criticize us!" apparently haven't met you.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Mira_of_lurk0more
 



I am glad you are understanding. I think that is why I am posting so people that want to understand will.

There is many shades of gray here and yes it is the members fault like it is our fault we let Bush be as he is and we buy the cheap stuff China makes.

The church could do nothing without the people's cooperation and they cooperate.

It is a person's responsiblity to go and find the truth and not take what one is told in PR shows.

I use to take the PR bait but I no longer do. It is hard to avoid at times for they know one's buttons and push them to get the result.

So that is why any group, Nation, church, and companies have to be checked out for the facts.

They know what you want and try to promise it even if they can't deliver it.

The church can no longer deliver it and keeps one on a treadmill forever. Even those who are suppose to have done the upper levels no longer get the results that use to be.

I know one who did them. When my mom passed I asked her to help me comm with her. Alas I found out she could not do that.

I found that I all by myself could do better in doing that then the current upper level people. Why because they are dealing with altered tech.

A lot of the older upper level people are dying mysteriously as well.

I am not in favor of the drugs they pass out today for mental health. But I am also aware some people are dangerous and need to be removed from society so no one will be harmed by their mental state. Treated humanily as well and not drugged to the sky and not tied up in a strait jacket.

A peaceful place with some calming drugs could be used but not the heavy mind altering stuff.


I don't know all the answers in the world but I know Scientology has a lot of Valuable data in it and why I stood by the tech but I don't stand by the church who is in the condition of Treason to the members as well as confusion which is considered lower than treason.

The church is being taken down and why people here bash it. It is being done on purpose to bash it.

Yes, Ron did wrong things and bad things. He used himself as a guinea pig in his researches for the tech. I can guarantee you one can get really screwed up thinking in that manner. The one does not know they are off the mark.

I think he needed more research on the upper levels and was betrayed by DM and gang. It looks like he was drugged till the day he died and if you do a search on his death there are tons of questions there as well. Some think he was murdered by DM. Some think DM allowed him to die and stoled his fortune.

I don't know the answers here but I do know I know enough and the Church person probably will not be allowed to post here after OSA reads these posts.

I think I don't have much more to say. If one want to throw out the baby with the bathwater there is nothing I can do to stop them.

I just want the logical rational people who think for themselves to know the truth. The catholic church has done a lot of abuses.

No church is innocent for they are made up of people and people screw up and do evil as well as good.

So thanks for thinking for yourself.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by euclid
 



The people in the church allow the church to do this. If they did not then the church would not.

You find this in families as well. One overwhelms the other side.

One can't blame it all on the church. I can guarantee you if all the members walked out from the abuse it would change. But most don't even figure they are being lied to.

it is a two sided street. One can't blame it all on the church. For the SP to have power one has to give it to him.

I know for I went deep in the money thing myself. I have money left in the church that sits there because I bought their PR. I also still have a hard time leaving it all behind me forever.

No one has to learn the tech if they don't want to.

They choose to be who they were and acting like. Most of the independents are like you and me. They work and keep their money and buy cars and houses.

Most spend a pittance of what the church charges to get to where they want to go with the tech.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 10:15 PM
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Then scientists can't use their word in terms as they are brainwashed. Your statement is not logical.

I don't use the terms as much as others would.

Suppressive person means what it says.

A person who suppresses others. We all do it in some manner at times but they just do it in most things in that they do but not in all things.

KSW is Keeping Sceientology Working write up.

HCOB is the write up itself. A bulliten by the office of HCO and don't ask me what all HCO does because I can't answer you for I did not go for office stuff in the church. It has to do with Communication. Hubbard Communication office bulletin.

I doubt I used many other words that are rech related.

I talk to a social worker and she understand me very well using these terms.

She does not use the tech nor approves of the church.



Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


Indeed. If there is one thing I dont like about them scientologists its the use of certain vocabulary without being aware that these type of expressions are not used in the "outside world". A sure sign of brainwashing.


To Speaker of Truth: I am totally against banning any belief system as well. There are ALREADY laws in place to handle criminals, no need to ban any form of thought.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 10:26 PM
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I don't think I have much more to say as some still love to be able to put their thoughts on others and how they should think and beleive.

They would have books burned because it does not agree with what they think.

One religion is banned what is to stop the next one being banned.

Mira I would talk via U2Us.

I don't think I can add to this there that I have not said.

Those who don't think will continue on their merry way.

Those who do will see the truth.

I do not support the church nor what they do in their lies.

I do support a person choice of what to follow and even be a bit off of what others think is normal.

People once thought the world flat and the round world people crazy.

It is the state of man how it is now to be as it is.

I paint and to be an artist one has to be a bit off the normal path.

I just know what people who have power will do with that power.

So I doubt I will post on this matter much any more.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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Thank you so much FancyLady. What you said about PR (amongst many other salient points) and handlers and net-nannies has me thinking of the U2U I received that I can not talk about. It resonates with the ring of crystal glass.

This was a masterful stroke on the part of the sender. I will attempt to clarify or put the same data together from other public access sources. I wish this were not the case but I will be patient and allow things to transpire as unforced as reasonable and possible. The data could be provided by another ATS member. I will not violate the ATS T and C.

I do find anxietydisorder's lack of comment here on this thread today of note and suspect you may be correct about PR, PR persons and their influences both overt and subtle inside and outside the organization in question.

I thank you again and will send a U2U to you as I develop my body of knowledge and require clarification. Know this FancyLady - you have affected me deeply and in a manner that I can respect and admire whether or not I agree with your viewpoints. You have done much - and not just I sees that as valuable. My Mom (Marty) says, "Thank you."

I want you to sleep well knowing that you have helped me to understand more than I did before learning from your experience, pain and pursuit of the truth. I will never forget this gift.

Respect and admiration,

Mira



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 12:30 AM
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He has not posted because he was called in by the church to not to do so as far as I can guess.

I spoke of the upper levels and the truth so he is not allowed to look under the threat of expulsion.

That to them means going to hell forever and ever.

They don't know they don't have to play that game and frankly agree to play it by playing it.

They choose to follow orders and not think.

They hide the independents that will be alas many have found out the truth.

LRH did do wrong things and some I fear was done to keep the church on the path but instead of helped pull it off the proper path.

He needed his case handled as well as we all have something to handle.

He did some really wrong things and so have most of us.

I can't fix that but I can understand why he did it.

I understand DM is doing far worse than LRH has ever done.

If he posts again I will be surprised.


[edit on 5-12-2007 by FancyLady]



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 02:12 AM
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This shows that freedom is not freedom anymore, a ban on a single idea is not freedom. A good thing this hasn't came in affect yet, I highly doubt it will come in affect in a matter there will be major protest.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by Mira_of_lurk0more
...has me thinking of the U2U I received that I can not talk about. It resonates with the ring of crystal glass.

This was a masterful stroke on the part of the sender. I will attempt to clarify or put the same data together from other public access sources........

I do find anxietydisorder's lack of comment here on this thread today of note and suspect you may be correct about PR, PR persons and their influences both overt and subtle inside and outside the organization in question.


You read far too much into that, I sent you that u2u so that you would know where I was coming from. I wanted to share some information with you and not the entire world. My lack of comment was only because I have other things that take my time and I can't be on ATS every minute of every day.

I find my religious affiliations a difficult thing to discuss sometimes because I come under continuous attack whenever I post in a thread about Scientology.


Originally posted by FancyLady
He has not posted because he was called in by the church to not to do so as far as I can guess.

I spoke of the upper levels and the truth so he is not allowed to look under the threat of expulsion.

That to them means going to hell forever and ever......

If he posts again I will be surprised.



SURPRISE !!!!

I have posted again, and no, I was not called in by the church. They don't even know where I am, they can't contact me, and they certainly can't expel me.

Also, Scientology does not have any Hell...



I see the thread added a few pages since I clicked on it last, so I guess I have a bit of reading to do to catch up.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 04:00 AM
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Hi anx' so YOU are a Scientologist eh? Sorry to have thought well of you at one time... this explains much. Messin' with Mira's head eh? Please don't. You know me. You still doin' PR down that end of the Lake?

Mira - consider staying away from these people on this particular subject matter. OK? I've read your posts... and I am impressed with your quality of mind. Save it for school and more worthwhile and fun stuff here at ATS. You are playing with fire kiddo. Real people have real lawyers. Don't get mad you are doing just fine.

Your Dad will explain this. Show him this post and say I said so. Mmmkay? I remember when you were a baby. I bet you are as lovely as your Mom and Sister. If you need a job kid - you have one. Actually bring friends we need some bright youngsters in research I have placements for 3.

Say Hi to your Mom and Dad for me. I hope Tommi's OK... tell him LB says his Hawg's gonna be a 120 and it'll have the Baker 6 speed. Get your Dad or Atilla to call me - we need to Pow wow about this... he knows how. Your Dad is a Bay Street legend. We play hockey together kid... We miss the "Locomotive". Get well Tommi. Just not too well - I still have bruises from last summer. LOL.

Fred-kvinne. You are a gem. Peace-woman.

Hmmm. You were interested in biz practices and power structures... good. Send me a U2U when you can Mira. We should meetup with your Dad and Mom - we need to talk about this and your future.

Scientology - they discriminate against the disabled and those will Brain Injury and Stroke. Well isn't that a coincidence I happened to be disabled. Tsk, tsk. This could be great entertainment. I need to go clean my good shotgun and go hire some people.

That's pretty low anx' slippin' the kid a data-bomb and then sneakin' in while she sleeps to slag her during the middle of the night. Lower than a snake's belly.The Scientology explains it. Who's your master in this? Those punks in Hamilton? No matter. You are dead to me.

You are no longer my friend anxietydisorder - I wish this had not occurred. Oh well. Don't screw with her Dad - just a little friendly advice from someone who knows - no charge for the "assist" anx'. Be CLEAR on that Scientologist anxietydisorder. Life is precious.

Victor Kaminski

[edit on 5-12-2007 by V Kaminski]



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:00 AM
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That's pretty low anx' slippin' the kid a data-bomb and then sneakin' in while she sleeps to slag her during the middle of the night. Lower than a snake's belly.The Scientology explains it. Who's your master in this?


I did nothing of the sort and I think this has been taken totally out of context.
I've stated I'm not a member of the church but that I used to work for them.

I defend them because I found the tech a valuable tool to use in my life, and I never experienced any of the negative things that so many people talk about on ATS. I've only tried to inform people about my experience with Scientology, not silence any discussion on the topic.

Look back in the previous threads on this topic and you'll see that I've been active on Scientology threads for a few years, so this is nothing new except for being new to new members.

I hope that shotgun remark wasn't aimed at me Vic ?



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:10 AM
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Sorry anxietydisorder, I ain't buyin' what you or your "religion" are selling. Neither will Mira or any reasonable person with a lick of common sense. Take this back to your masters: The public is aware of your activity. Good-bye recruiter "anxietydisorder".

Vic



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:33 AM
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certain topics are so "loaded" that they will attract a bunch of missionary-like fanatics from both sides who attempt to make a multi-faceted issue either black or white. Name calling and vicsousness ensue. There are certain topics that are so charged that wikipedia constantly has to deal with vandalism of its pages and legal action. 9/11 is one of these topics. Anti-semitism is another of these topics. Scientology yet another.

When do individuals loose their ability to think in a balanced and objective manner? Im sure anxietydisorder is not the devil in person. And Im also sure his church is not an angel.

Yuck. Too many fanatics. Im outta here.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating


Scientology as pointed out above comes from a science fiction writer who said "If one wanted to make a lot of money, he would start his own religion".


Are you familiar with the term "humor"? I dont understand why scientology bashers keep using this quote.

How can you not understand why Scientology-bashers keep using this quote? It's without a doubt the most damning concrete evidence Scientology will ever face. If Hubbard had never said this, I'd be more open-minded about his stories - after all, they're no less believable than much of the world's mythology.

It's the equivalent of some archeaologist discovering the perfectly-preserved diaries of one of Jesus' disciples, where the first words read: "Dear Diary, I finally got a publishing deal. My first novel, entitled "The Bible", will be on sale this time next year. I'm over the moon."



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


Because Hubbard may have been strange, but he wasnt stupid. Do you really think he`d be dumb enough to make that statement outside of a humorous context?

Think again.



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