German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban

reply to post by Jim_Kraken


you have a very important point possibly slander or libel too it may stick but they have enough money to bring oj's lawyer back to life and pay for him

Originally posted by Jim_Kraken
OK, here's your loophole...Scientology, at least the biggest sect, isn't a religion, IT'S A BUSINESS! Shut them down for fraud, for claiming that most mainstream drugs are poison. Why they haven't been sued into total bankruptcy already is beyond me.

I know, it cracks me up, I mean it was started by a science Fiction author, that should give people more than a clue what its about.

To get a grip about what the problem is with Scientology you have to understand the Founder. L. Ron Hubbard.

Visit the link below for a true history of the man. This history was well researched and backed up with facts and first hand accounts from those around him.

Help from a group claiming the status of a Religion should never be based on a persons wealth. Period end of subject. Probably the best way to spot a phony Cult Group is when they start stripping their members of their worldly goods. Actively recruiting the Mentally Ill is also a danger signal.

A Religion started by a Confidence Man is not a Religion so maybe this German fellow has a point.
Link to Article

Thanks but I really don't know why I speak up.

I still have some pain and anger of it of course.

I guess I still have a tiny hope for reform but alas I doubt that will be.

I feel sorry for those in who don't see it yet.

We are on the same side of what we want but they don't see what side they really are on.

I hate PR for this very reason. I don't ever believe a word of it.

Originally posted by Mira_of_lurk0more
Wow! I was gonna do chemistry but I saw FancyLady's post. I'm so glad you've chosen to share. That's totally heavy! I gotta think about this and do chemistry. You're starred and it's flagged FL!

Mira

reply to post by Sky watcher


You're mistaking scientology with Christian Scientists. They're two completely different sects.


If Scientology is considered a business, why isn't Christianity treated the same way. As another poster mentioned, the 'church' has a tithe of 5-10% of your income. That is a lot more money than the scientology initiations.




[edit on 12/4/2007 by biggie smalls]

reply to post by FancyLady


You quote me, but you don't ask a question.
You made multiple statements in your post but failed to pose any question I could reply to.

Ban all religions everywhere!

The world would be a million times better (in my opinion of course)

Take away religion, and that one less major thing for people to bicker and fight over. I mean, has anyone even come close to proving there is some type of God without resorting to the old "you have to have faith" argument? I don't want faith, I want proof. The writings of a loony science fiction writer ain't proof(wasn't Hubbard investigated for his alone time spent with young boys?)

I'm not going to persecute anyone for what they choose to believe in, but try and force any type of religion or belief on me and thats when it becomes a problem. As for Germany wanting to ban this business of Scientology, all the power to them.

Originally posted by Mira_of_lurk0more
Thank you anxietydisorder, "you can't force a Priest to testify in any court", OK.

Sort of like an above the law clause or perhaps a closed board room or "dark" command structure. It is a secret. So you can't tell me. Great. Rights before goods and opinion above all.

Any Priests doin' time? How about scientologists? Any legal troubles other than Germany? I gotta do some chemistry and put down some de-icer so I'll U2U you tomorrow after lunch eastern time.

Mira

I don't understand why a person can't confess to his chosen clergy in privacy.
Does the world need to know every sin you committed, or can some of that remain between you and the person you confessed to.

You can't grant that right to the Catholics and deny it to others.........


I'll post case for case if you want to start slagging one religion off the other, they all have their problems.

Go and de-ice what you need to, but keep in mind that you're destroying God's work.

Originally posted by Kronik98
(wasn't Hubbard investigated for his alone time spent with young boys?)

Post the facts.
Is there something that should be investigated in your statement, or did you just pull that out of your hat to enhance your post ???

Name a boy.
Post a court document.
Show any proof of your speculation.....

Pissing into the wind will only have it spray back in your face.

What level Auditor are you anxietydisorder? I want to know how low you are in the organization that's all. I don't care what mumbo-jumbo-tech you share with whatever beings you choose to do whatever with.

Do you work for Scientology? You said you weren't paid to espouse their opinions, but do you work for The Church of Scientology in any way shape or form? I see wiggle-room in what you said and I promise to pay very close attention to everything you post on this thread and seek clarification until you answer plainly in simple terms.

If what FancyLady says is true - I see the concern and I empathize. It's a choice though. Religious war is still war - not a cohesive religion cum tax dodge you all got goin'. You guys are everywhere. 200K in Canada according to a CBC estimate on "The Hour".

That Shank lady is intertesting and talks like you - Strombo took it easy on her. Likely because the questions were approved before she appeared and at the behest of CBC legal affairs. You guys are the litigation beauty queens of religion. Agents or missionaries or sales-force? Your marketing department could take lessons from ATS member werstoopid.

I so hope my brother's buddy will agree to participate. He was a Level 12 or some such artificial nonsense at the time he split and had to actually escape from the Church because they came looking... more than once with a private investigator/goon... or so my understanding of it goes. I could be entirely mistaken. Do all ex-members hide or just the one's who your religion of Scientology sees as knowing too much?

Simple answers will suffice. Or you can choose not to answer. I might just choose to give your earlier statements in this thread a good going over and relate them to this proposed German ban. Are all Scientologists rude like you are being to other members? Or is that your normal demeanor? You seem defensive and a bit touchy? Do you need an assist? Are you "clear"? How much does that voodoo-assist thing tune-up cost per commune? Is it tax deductible? It shouldn't be if it is.

Is the human placenta munching true? That's way ill'n if true but that's only my personal opinion. Others can eat what they like. I'll U2U you tomorrow after lunch eastern time but before first afternoon class to say if I can get Attila's friend to participate as an ATS member and when so you could prepare yourself to be online at the same time. I suspect if I can get him here that he may have a different perspective to offer than you or FancyLady.

Mira

EDIT: Oh I forgot sorry, no I won't play religions off like you are attempting to do. I'm lucky I can choose whatever. I choose no God (at least this week) so no work of God$ is being broken by me as you might claim with ZERO proof I might add for the edification of all. You're cagey. I like that. I look at this as true entertainment. Thank you for the wonderful opportunity to enjoy anxietydisorder. I'm glad I joined ATS.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Mira_of_lurk0more]

As johnsky and others have stated earlier in the thread, they are not banning a religion. Because Scientology is not recognized AS a religion yet ... it's a business according to the German government.

So if there's anything to get worked up about it's that fact - not "the banning of a religion."

I was raised Catholic, don't follow organized religion anymore. I've read up on alot of religions trying to find something that I could believe in ... and in doing so I realized that that's all religion was - something for me to believe in, to fulfill a need.

To my eyes there are way too many religions for one to be right, and yet most to all of them do have some very good values and insight into human nature.

But as I said earlier, to live in a country you have to abide by it's laws. If I believe in the fire god Immotl and I am required by my religion to burn down buildings in his name, obviously I'm going to get arrested here in the U.S. for arson. It's not the religion I'm getting arrested for, it's the acts carried out in the religion's name that are against the law. Much like some of the business practices of Scientology according to the German government.

My main source of info on Scientology came from the BBC documentary "Panorama: Scientology and Me.


video.google.com...


(I still can't figure out how to embed these friggin things)


Seems like an organization that I would want no part of.

It is simply staggering how anyone can believe in the e-metre. how anyone can pay over money to apparently progress through the stages of scientology.

i took their test on tottenham court road, london, in 1980. i set out to answer in every positive way. they were apparently impressed. i was grateful i never gave them my correct name or address.

thank you very much for providing a link to the panorama documentary Karlhungis.

i lean toward no organised religion, but IMO scientology appears to be greatly disturbing. Anne Archer's son Tommy is quite a piece of work, IMO.

paraphrased as the programme said: those who find scientology helpful, i don't doubt them and good luck to them.

i can only trust potntial new recruits get all the information they can before they start pouring money into this organisation.

you may not know it but i have the power to speak with the dead, after reading all of this nonsense i decided to contact mr hubard and ask him,
this is what he said.

"i cant belive people bought into this crap!!!! im a liar, i ate to many pickles before bed one night and had a weird crazy dream, wrote it down and now CRAZY people like tom cruise and all the others think its real, but it's nice to make money off of dreams now isnt it......."

his spirit started to slip away after that last line.

so that's it, scientology is nothing but a hoax.

Scientology is not a religion and they're not *just* a business -- they're a bunch of criminals, is all.

Check this out: www.cs.cmu.edu...

I guess that sums it up. Not only do they prey on the desperate spiritual seekers and relieve them of their last penny, they also aim to infiltrate the highest ranks of corporations, governments, etc. They're f***ing dangerous, folks!

reply to post by FredT


if germany were to ban all the religions that take advantage of vulnerable people guess which would be the only one left that they would allow to be "legal"-------------it woud be the roman catholic church------------the only one that all the heads of the german led "holy" roman empire has been in collusion with up till now(hitler preceded by napoleon-----born of german parents---- were the last 2 heads) and prophecy says there will be one more revival of this babylon the great before Messiah comes and ends all the false religions.

Because I was not asking any questions as I have none left as I found my answers.

I have false data stripped myself of the management of the church's lies.

Barb

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
reply to post by FancyLady

 

You quote me, but you don't ask a question.
You made multiple statements in your post but failed to pose any question I could reply to.

The members with the most vitriolic responses are members that have sign-up dates in 2007. Perhaps they haven't been around the ATS community long enough to develop a tolerance for other peoples beliefs.

This point is completely moot. I do not think that bringing this up as a valid point is responsible and does not give any credit to the argument. Most people that sign up to ATS have been lurking here for years, and some like myself have had accounts in the past.

Now, the problem I have with scientology is the same problem I have with any organized religion. I do not feel people should pay dues. The texts should be as cheap as one can print them, or free online. I am a Christian and I was trying to become a member of a church. They require of their members to donate 10% of their income. I have always donated 10% of my income (it is Biblical), but I have donated it to A WORTHY CAUSE, rather than a self-serving church. The church did not see eye to eye with me.
I think Scientology would be a lot more effective if they made donations voluntary, as opposed to in exchange for a service or text.

As far as independent Scientologists, I am with you. I am an independant Christian and do not affiliate myself with any particular branch or sect. GO INDY's

Germany has a real concern, but I do not think any religion (or even cult for that matter) should be banned. BRING OUT THE THOUGHT POLICE! The only thing, I believe, a state can do is hold individuals responsible for wrong doings.

If someone in Scientology abused his/her power than send them to jail, much like America sent those pedophile priests to jail. America was not quick to ban Catholicism, but many harsh words were said about Catholicism in the media (which is a bit understandable).

Scientology needs to lighten up as well. South Park makes fun of everyone. Jesus is on every Christmas or Easter as a gun toting Steven Segall type. Get over it and do not be so defensive.

Originally posted by FancyLady

I have false data stripped myself of the management of the church's lies.

I'm not precisely clear on what that may mean FancyLady but I like it. I want you to know that I empathize with your perspective as much as one can over the net and I respect and admire your choosing to share it with the community. And I like you.

Mira

EDIT: Oh shoot, I almost forgot. My brother is going to contact his buddy who left The Church of Scientology. He will do it when he gets off shift and I should have a response in the next day. I hope he will join this discussion. I want to know about the business practices and power structure - the "soft" part of the "religion" doesn't interest me. It's deliberate a choice on mine own part.

Some other stuff has happened via U2U but I can't discuss that specifically and stay within the spirit and letter of the ATS T and C. I may have been sent a U2U with specific information purposely so that it couldn't be disclosed. Gimme another day or so...

Mira

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Mira_of_lurk0more]

A truth I´d like to share:

Hubbard was an interesting guy but is followers are not.