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German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban

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posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Mira_of_lurk0more
Said with moderation and forethought. How long is this offer good for?


That offer is open for as long as I can maintain this body and I have an account on ATS.




posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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Not that I think much of Scientology, but it's funny how so many people slag it off when they believe in something just as ridiculous such as a big invisible man in the sky who watches you 24/7 and apparently needs your money lol

hell if they're going to ban Scientology then they should just ban all the religions that actually cause harm or have ever caused harm to people. that would stop a lot of "my religion is real but yours isn't" arguments.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:03 PM
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Just to add some flame to the fire:

The entirety of scientology-material can be obtained for free in the internet, without paying a cent. This is due to a spin-off organisation called "freezone" who have vowed to remove the learning materials from the cultish context.
so, although scientology hates hearing it: its all available without paying a cent.

As for the Germany thing: The whole anti-scientology-campaign comes from a woman by the name of Caberta who lives in Hamburg and regularly gives press-releases calling for a ban of Scientology. These calls are being made since decades, but nobody in his right mind is going to ban a belief-system.

Furthermore, strictly speaking, scientology is both a business and a religon (and guilty of practicing counseling without a license - lol).



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by Golack
 


Harrassment and elitism are a result of class distinctions...not religious belief.

Western Civilisation, I would contend, has evolvedrather than civilised. Every religion has a financial heirarchy....where scientology may require a fee, christians call it 'tithe'.

I suggest maybe having a bit more of an open mind....people in every faction of life attempt to 'scam' others. Do we not have Enron as a potential proof of that? What about small time business 'pyramid scams'? There is something to be said for a 'religion' that helps you sort out the negative experiences of your life....



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:13 PM
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Just a note of interest..........

The members with the most vitriolic responses are members that have sign-up dates in 2007. Perhaps they haven't been around the ATS community long enough to develop a tolerance for other peoples beliefs.

Whatever the case, I'll take your hand and help you understand any religion you choose to follow. Just ask.......



edit: missed a vowel :shk:

[edit on 3/12/2007 by anxietydisorder]



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by anxietydisorder


The members with the most vitriolic responses are members that have sign-up dates in 2007. Perhaps they haven't been around the ATS community long enough to develop a tolerance for other peoples beliefs.

[edit on 3/12/2007 by anxietydisorder]



Very true. After a few years of ATSing they will start realizing that scientology is one of the more moderate belief-systems compared to what other people come up with here. Wait till they meet the group of reptilian-pedophile worshippers.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:18 PM
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Cool. I think my brother has some contacts who might want to participate as members at ATS. I'll ask, he'll be phoning us tomorrow and I'll see what I can find out. he knows one guy who bailed-out for sure.

In the interest of clarity and openess within the ATS community I should ask, you wouldn't be an Audit of Class 12 or higher would you? And are you in anyway remunerated financially by The Church of Scientology or an employee of a scientology owned corporation or subsidiary thereof?

I will openly disclosure that I am currently an atheist and not affiliated with any organizations having to do with any agency of intent for nor against any particular spiritual belief or anything deceitful. I promise.

I'm 18 and stuff happens... who knows? Selecting spiritual beliefs are matter of choice at least for me at this time. Anyway thanks and I'll U2U you 1st before I post anything after Atty phones. Just from some quick Googs I see that some who leave The Church of Scientology have difficulties.

I am currently of the opinion that the potential of the ban in Germany is nothing but common sense on their part in that specific geopolitical-jurisdiction for now. Your chosen religion/technology has some really bad press and just my opinion at this time I want to know more.

Mira

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Mira_of_lurk0more]



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Wait till they meet the group of reptilian-pedophile worshippers.


You kill me.

I don't even tolerate the reptilian-pedophile worshipers.

We need to draw the line somewhere...........



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by anxietydisorder
I challenge you to give me a personal experience...


I tried Scientology for a while and actually liked it. I wasn't around long enough to get into advanced doctrine but the teachings that I was exposed to actually made psychological sense.

It mattered nothing to me that the founder wrote mediocre space operas or inflated his military record. History is rife with atrocities committed by religious figures, and it's not as if Hubbard burned witches or sent teams of Dominican torture squads after Jews.

My only issues with that particular religion are the ridiculous costs involved, their focus on Hollywood recruitment, and, to a lesser degree, their tax-free status.

Advanced Scientology beliefs - as I understand the media's version of them and when viewed objectively - aren't any more or less outrageous than that of any other religion. They are merely different.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Mira_of_lurk0more

In the interest of clarity and openess within the ATS community I should ask, you wouldn't be an Audit of Class 12 or higher would you? And are you in anyway remunerated financially by The Church of Scientology or an employee of a scientology owned corporation or subsidiary thereof?


I can assure that I am not employed by the Church of Scientology, and I receive no remuneration from the Church for the views I post on ATS or any other opinions I espouse concerning Scientology.

The Auditing I have provided or received are of a personal nature and not open for discussion. Think of it like a Catholic confession, you can't force a Priest to testify in any court, the Scientologists deserve the same right.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:56 PM
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The one that that is often not said here and is happening. The tech is being altered by David M. the leader of the church.

I know of one specfic one and that is the definition of the words F/N. I was taking a course at the church before I left and I could not figure it out for the life of me.

Now that I am with the independent Scientologist it is all more understandable. I am not in the game to get more stats and points for a stupid game.

I read the original tech without the changes in definition of words and things dropped out because it was no longer wanted by DM.

Some of the critics picking at the church do have a bone of contention with the church.

The church has not reformed and will go on time after time saying the current books are bad and so they had to go find out why it is so. I don't know how many times this has been done.

Or how many times a course is taken over and over again.

A lot is hidden behind PR and so I wound up with the independents. They have their own issues but not as bad as the church have.

Yes some of the independents also think they know best as well.

DM the leader is not trained beyond a class 4 auditor who had never done an internship.

Mike Rinder has left the church and he was a big person to leave.

There is too much to say here about what really is.

I consider the tech works and yes, all religion is man made but guess what we are all still spirits.

I don't like organized religion any more. I see the brainwash in all of them.

One can learn one's knowledge about life without the brainwash.

So if you are saying the tech is not being altered in the church that is a big flat out big PR lie by the church.

I had the chance to join the Sea Org but I could see they were not allowed to walk out the door without permission and worked up to 20 hours a day.

As well as I saw their security escort a guy in the sea org back from a place I stayed to make sure he went back. I also talked to a wife of one sea org person who did not want to be in it. She reported where he was.

The big bucks one has to pay when one spends years working for it for about nothing then one leaves and then one has to pay all of it back. They worked for years for about free so they earned it.

So much I can say and I hardly ever bother to say it any more.


Fancy


Originally posted by anxietydisorder

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I dont think Scientology is the black-white issue that people are going to make of it in this thread. But honestly: You being a scientologist, dont you feel that your church at least has to be reformed?


You're right, nothing is black or white.
I've seen some reformation of the Church over the years, but the tech is the tech, the teachings don't need to change.

Scientology is not going away, and nobody is forced to join the Sea Org. or even take a course. They won't strap you down and put you on an E-Meter for Auditing if that's not your choice.
Has anyone in this thread ever heard of free will



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:16 PM
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Thank you anxietydisorder, "you can't force a Priest to testify in any court", OK.

Sort of like an above the law clause or perhaps a closed board room or "dark" command structure. It is a secret. So you can't tell me. Great. Rights before goods and opinion above all.

Any Priests doin' time? How about scientologists? Any legal troubles other than Germany? I gotta do some chemistry and put down some de-icer so I'll U2U you tomorrow after lunch eastern time.

Mira



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:17 PM
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I wanted to die after I was no longer in good standing for part of my fight was to keep the tech in and RTC did not like that idea. I wrote RTC about the out tech and instead of looking for the out tech they checked me out and found out I get upset and so I was out PR and bye bye me.


To a Scientologist that is brainwashed being not in good standing is equal to going to hell and dieing forever. The program they gave me was undo able due to the church's bad Pr and they would not give it to me at first.

One day I scared my mom to death as she thought I would do myself in as I was so upset after I was removed from the church for standing for what I thought should be.

But alas I accept my low self thinking at the time. I decided to quit then I would surely lose and if I fight I could win. Not long after that I bought a computer and got on the net and one thing led to another and I found the independents and it took a while after that to get it all sorted out in my mind which I have.

Then I found the truth on the net of the alterations and I found the independents. Over the last few years my mind has stabilized and I realize I am not going to hell nor do I need the church. I understand far more of the tech out here than I ever did in the church.

They got my money on account which if I ask for it back I will not be ever allowed to speak to the people in the church ever again as well as I am not allowed to do that anyhow as I am not in good standing. They practice shunning which breaks up families. It is forced upon them. If they don't do it then it happens to them as well.

It has held me back in so many ways I can't tell you but it also helped as well by learning the tech. It is not the tech that held me back. It was how it was being used or not used. I was the weak minded who did what others thought in the church that lead me down to my near wanting to die.

I have had much help in the independents and I false data stripped myself over more than a few years by reading on the net.

So yes I was harmed by it and by my stupidity.

I still follow the tech and always will. I don't follow the church and their suppressive ways being run by an SP.

I choose for me now and I started to go the way I should have went.

Fancy


Originally posted by anxietydisorder
I challenge you to give me a personal experience...

Has anyone here been personally harmed by Scientology ?

Have you been taken advantage of by Scientology or deceived ?

Have you lost money by paying for a service and not received that service ?

Has Scientology been a detriment to your life in any way that I might be able to help with ?


If anyone here has an issue with the Church that directly effected you, please let me know.
I'll address that for you any way I can.


The rest of you are just blowing air out your anus because you read something that someone wrote about something someone said, or you are just reiterating something that happened years ago to someone you don't even know and you don't know the facts of the case.

I'm probably just farting into the wind again on this topic because most of the members posting seem to be closed minded individuals that can't formulate a proper analytical question beyond some bit of gossip, but I'm willing to try.

I thought the motto of this site was to "Deny Ignorance", not propagate it.




posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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finally someones taking action against those money grubbing dim wits!



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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Have you been taken advantage of by Scientology or deceived ?

- My mothers friend.

Have you lost money by paying for a service and not received that service ?

- He did, they got him when he was down, gave him a fake test that everyone of us would answer yes to, Have you ever felt alone, have you ever been depressed, do you feel you have a bigger purpose in life? Would you like a better life?

Has Scientology been a detriment to your life in any way that I might be able to help with ?

- They drained all the money they could off him before his friend could save him from the cult. I suppose you could offer to pay him back all the money they conned out of him.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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Wow! I was gonna do chemistry but I saw FancyLady's post. I'm so glad you've chosen to share. That's totally heavy! I gotta think about this and do chemistry. You're starred and it's flagged FL!


Mira



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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Okay, apologies if i offended anyone with my earlier posts, but i do truly believe that scientology is a scam and as another member pointed out, scientologists have been involved in many... (See previous page for links plus you'll find more if you search).

Don't get me wrong, there are many religions out there that exploit the masses with their laws, propoganda, false interpretations, orders, rituals, brain washing and exploitation... so I'm not singling out Scientology...

But Scientology is as corrupt, it's NEW and already it controls the media in certain angles, it already blackmails people, already it has hands in many pies.... I mean it's taken the Vatican thousands of years for that privilege, so fair play the Hubbard posse in that respect.

But for the love of your own God's, Germany is doing a righteous thing here, Every German I have met (and I've met lots and lots when I go travelling) have been fine and decent people, they know they have sinned, but they also know it wasn't them, it was their grandparents and great grandparents, the new youth has come out of a dark time and are shining... I frown upon the few who remain as neo nazi's in modern Germany, but in all honesty I believe Germany was right to ban the nazi salute....

Why?

Well, it was a symbol of something terrible, they are essentially censoring something bad, and that in itself proves that censoring certain things is not the evil we believe it to be.

So, in that respect they are banning Scientology because it brings bad vibes.

They also banned violent videogames, which i also think was fairly just reaction in a century where kids are shooting each other up in classrooms.

Why is that bad?

Don't get me wrong Scientologists, I bet there's thousands and thousands of great people involved, but essentially you're just jumping on the latest religious train that passes through our junction of existance.

But why pay thousands of pounds for the secrets to living, when you can be spending that money on ACTUALLY living.... Go see the world... Not everbody wants to kill you...

Why base a philosophy on a fantasist and liar, sure he was educated, but so was hitler.

See the irony?

That's my tuppence, and if you don't like it, go pay for a counter arguement....

Peace x



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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If it wasn't for their money they would have been shut down in Florida. They let a sick kid die here in their so called church and people here were very angry. People wanted to burn it to the ground. People did try to get them shut down, However the big wigs in the church came to through their money around and the politicians were happy.
I don't care what your religion is, You don't let a child die when he or she can be healed easily.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Sky watcher]



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by anxietydisorder
Just a note of interest..........

The members with the most vitriolic responses are members that have sign-up dates in 2007. Perhaps they haven't been around the ATS community long enough to develop a tolerance for other peoples beliefs.

Whatever the case, I'll take your hand and help you understand any religion you choose to follow. Just ask.......



edit: missed a vowel :shk:

[edit on 3/12/2007 by anxietydisorder]
thats a pretty bold assumption to make my father is a hardcore right wing christian my mom is wiccan all of my friends dont believe in god ive gone from christianity to buhdism to christianit again i have friends that worship satan. but the point is scientology may not affect me directly but i have seen what it does. ive heard people who were involved with it say "im glad i got outta there" i know people that lived in that town i described in a earlier post. a belief system can only be banned if it becomes dangerous to the civil structure of any populated area. they take over a town no matter how small; pay off cops practice corporate take overs and assault those who try to show what they do then it becomes a problem. they are a danger if they keep this up. what if its your town next then what will you say. when they drive you out by refusing you service at shops and restraunts and grocery stores. when you protest like the people do in the town i was talking about earlier and get assaulted and even when theres cops watching they dont care. it would be a completely different story then. and their code is to remain non-violent so the government wont take them down. so even though they have a bad history they should be allowed to practice it no matter what? then what about radical islam? should they be allowed to set up mosques and do what they want under the guise of freedom of religion?



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 07:09 PM
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OK, here's your loophole...Scientology, at least the biggest sect, isn't a religion, IT'S A BUSINESS! Shut them down for fraud, for claiming that most mainstream drugs are poison. Why they haven't been sued into total bankruptcy already is beyond me.



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