German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban

reply to post by mr-lizard


how about chilling out a bit and tolerating other ats-members and their belief-systems?

Has anyone in this thread ever heard of free will

Yep, I'm free to believe in what I want to believe as are you...

The only difference being, I don't think aliens were dropped into volcano's, I don't think the earth was made in seven days, I don't think Jesus or Muhammed or any of the others were messengers of god, I just think we are humans living on a planet that has a million different opinions of how we got here...

I won't charge anybody a single penny either.

reply to post by Skyfloating


See the post below yours and above this one then

Originally posted by Skyfloating

you see...thats one of the problems I see with religion...as a non-basher of scientology. Non-development. No matter how much the world changes, in 2000 years you will still be teaching the same stuff.

I honestly can't say how I'll feel about all this in 2000 years.
I have changing views as I learn and grow from lifetime to lifetime, nothing is truly static in this Universe.

Scientology is just the only religion I've found that follows the path I've chosen to walk.

reply to post by anxietydisorder


alright, fair enough.

I will conclude by saying that I dont like Scientology...but I dislike some of its critics even more as Ive experienced them to be nothing short of fanatic bigots.

Well done Germany, even though I find it hard to take seriously after watching the south park episode on it "yes this is really what they believe" Even after that was on screen, I still thought they were joking.

It sounds like something John Lear would come up with and its coupled with some very sinister tactics with allegations of kidnapping and murder too.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

alright, fair enough.

I will conclude by saying that I dont like Scientology...but I dislike some of its critics even more as Ive experienced them to be nothing short of fanatic bigots.

Thank-you for that, you're few among many.
Religious tolerance is probably the first step towards world peace.

If more people like us could just allow others to embrace the religions of their choice the world would be a better place for everyone.


I won't ignore the negative comments of others because I feel that's the first step towards ignorance, but I'll hold my ground.
I'm not here to convert anyone to Scientology, but I will defend the Church to the best of my ability. I feel they have as much right to teach their beliefs as any other religion has.

Originally posted by Flyer
Well done Germany, even though I find it hard to take seriously after watching the south park episode on it "yes this is really what they believe"

Even after that was on screen, I still thought they were joking.

It sounds like something John Lear would come up with and its coupled with some very sinister tactics with allegations of kidnapping and murder too.

I couldn't agree more. Scientology is some bad stuff

Operation Snow White
Operation Freakout
Fair Game

Some of these people are as bad as Muslim extremists. I guess after living with the third Reich for 10 years Germany decided they want no more of this totalitarian hogwash.

i watched a documentary on a town thats pretty much owned by scientology they pay off the police they do alot of stuff. the people who were filming the documentary were assaulted by a scientologist with a hammer then the police showed up the dialogue went "officer this man attacked us with a hammer and we have it all here on film" the officer replied "its illegal to film someoone without there consent" thats all the officer did and asked them to turn the camera off. which number 1 they were out on a public street its perfectly legal to record anything if its out in public. number two they were assaulted with a deadly weapon which is a second degree felony but that was completely swept aside. i wish tv-links was still up so you could see how these people attack whoever disagrees with them. they bought the building the cult awareness center was in a document was discovered in there early days talking about corporate AND GOVERNMENT spying; members of scientology spying on our government and businesses for some unknown purpose. unforgivable

Good job Germany.

While one person pointed out the freedom of religion, in many countries, Scientology is not recognized as a religion, instead it is recognized as a business and hence, it must comply with the business bureau's practices.

Germany classes Scientology as a business, rather than a religious organization, and Belgium, France, Ireland, Luxembourg, and the United Kingdom have not recognized Scientology as a religion.[150] Scientology has also not been recognized as a religion in Israel or Mexico. A recent judicial investigation in Belgium is now in the process of prosecuting Scientology.

Wikipedia


Until Scientology is recognized as a religion everywhere, they will have to be careful of where they establish themselves, and abide by the laws of the countries they are in.

If they don't read the laws, that's their own fault, and they deserve everything coming to them.


Outside of that, on a personal note, I cannot stand Scientology's mis-use of their own name.
Scientology is a mix of the Latin word Scio (knowledge in the fullest sense of the word.) and the Greek word Logos (the study of).
Scientology translates to "The study of knowledge in the fullest sense of the word"... which is obviously what it is NOT.

They cleverly sneak in science into their name to elude you into thinking there was some actual conclusions established from scientific data... yet there is absolutely no factual data within the religion, and the entire religion, as with all other religions resembles nothing more than a fictional story.


Make no mistake, Scientology is one of the furthest things from Science there can be, it has nothing to do with science, and it's a disgrace to thousands of years of scientific progress to dare to misuse the word science in such a manor.


Yes, they should be brought to trial, but for fraud!

reply to post by Golack


Bad Stuff, huh?...

The basic premise of a new scientoligists' experience is one of remembering bad personal experience so as to understand and let go of the impact and influence upon personal behaviour....in favor of highlighting a positive approach to life and all its' inhabitants.

I am not a scientologist. I have thought about it, however, aside from the alien belief. When you get to it, the religion is actually most based in our every day life, encountering varying levels of consciousness so as to not only improve their lives, but those they encounter. Hypnosis and NLP are actually relevant subjects to this religion.

If religion can be said to be the empowerment of people and their everyday lives, then scientology isn't really any different then current christianity....

Did you know hat the first vending machine was in actually a machine utilizing the weight/flow of water as leverage(provoked by the drop of a coin) to "magically' dispense Holy Water? Such was the competition of churches a thousand years ago...cheap mechanical tricks that the populace wasn't capable of understanding passed off as miracles....

If I were Germany, I would think more along the lines of banning...dare I even say that?...

..No. ...because I do believe in the freedom of belief..or religion, if you will...

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by IAmTetsuo

 

Yeah but Zen Buddhism and Scientology are EXTREMELY different, Scientology is based on a science fiction writers wet dreams, whereas Buddhism is a peaceful path towards happiness.

Scientology is a nasty, greedy organisation that demands money from its followers, whereas Zen Buddhism is an abandonment of all things material...

How many politicians know the fine points of all this?

There is a lot of ignorance and malice in this old world. I know many people, some of which are stereotypical Christian conservative bible-thumpers, but some not, who would ban all "cults". And to them, anything non-mainstream would quailify as a "cult".

World's First Vending Machine

Inventor: Hero (busy man)
Date: First century A.D.
How it works: A person puts a coin in a slot at the top of a box. The coin hits a metal lever, like a balance beam. On the other end of the beam is a string tied to a plug that stops a container of liquid. As the beam tilts from the weight of the coin, the string lifts the plug and dispenses the desired drink until the coin drops off the beam.
Proof of complexity: Early modern vending machines actually used a similar system, before electrical machines took over.
Quirk: It was devised to distribute Holy Water at temples, because "people were taking more Holy Water than they were paying for," Humphrey says.

www.smithsonianmag.com...

The first link I came across for the above statement...it is actually a kind of proof that early christian temples manipulated the minds of its' followers....science was used to create miracles to force the belief that they were indeed endowed by God. Do a bit more research on the subject...there was a wonderful documentary on PBS or Discovery at some point in the last year...

Maybe all of our religions should be put under scrutiny...

This is ridiculous, then again it's coming from a nation that banned a hand gesture, and tends to like to run things out of their country in general.

Even the article states that the German government does not recognize scientology as a religion, which means that they must be getting their cut, so what's the problem?

[edit on 3-12-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Freedom of religion includes all religions, even bad ones.

I completely agree with this statement.


But definitely not this one.

IMHO, Scientology is for the most part a bad religion, a true cult, built upon lies, slavery, and exploitation.

The same could be said about: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and probably even Buddhism as well (Have I left anyone out, sorry if I forgot about your crimes against humanity, my bad there's been so many).


Scientology deserves to exist as much as the next nutty religion, but then again I don't live in Germany so I pretty much have no say in the matter

[edit on 12/3/2007 by biggie smalls]

I'm solidly on the side of separation of church and state. If the state can ban one religion, it can ban them all. They should not start down that slippery slope.

On the other hand, with the information that has been brought out, Scientology should be closely watched. If they break the law, they should be brought up on charges. No religion is above the law, that is the path of social anarchy.

Ban them and they could become the forbidden fruit, they'll have more converts than they can handle.

It is not the states place to determine the individuals spiritual path. It is the states place to protect it's citizens.

This is a scary path being walked indeed.

Freedom of religion includes all religions, even bad ones.

People are still reading past the part that they are not recognized as a religion at all in many countries. They went into those countries knowing full well they are recognized as a business, and hence, they MUST abide by business practices.

A business cannot claim freedom of religion. That would be like Microsoft trying to claim freedom of religion when stealing code.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by johnsky]

I challenge you to give me a personal experience...

Has anyone here been personally harmed by Scientology ?

Have you been taken advantage of by Scientology or deceived ?

Have you lost money by paying for a service and not received that service ?

Has Scientology been a detriment to your life in any way that I might be able to help with ?


If anyone here has an issue with the Church that directly effected you, please let me know.
I'll address that for you any way I can.


The rest of you are just blowing air out your anus because you read something that someone wrote about something someone said, or you are just reiterating something that happened years ago to someone you don't even know and you don't know the facts of the case.

I'm probably just farting into the wind again on this topic because most of the members posting seem to be closed minded individuals that can't formulate a proper analytical question beyond some bit of gossip, but I'm willing to try.

I thought the motto of this site was to "Deny Ignorance", not propagate it.

Thank you for that anxietydisorder. Said with moderation and forethought. How long is this offer good for?

Mira

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Mira_of_lurk0more]

Originally posted by MemoryShock
reply to post by Golack

 

Bad Stuff, huh?...

The basic premise of a new scientoligists' experience is one of remembering bad personal experience so as to understand and let go of the impact and influence upon personal behaviour....in favor of highlighting a positive approach to life and all its' inhabitants.

Are harassment and elitism typical behaviors of those who have 'let go of the past and started anew'?

I am not a scientologist. I have thought about it, however, aside from the alien belief. When you get to it, the religion is actually most based in our every day life, encountering varying levels of consciousness so as to not only improve their lives, but those they encounter. Hypnosis and NLP are actually relevant subjects to this religion.

Then why not join a less demanding religion? Scientology will put a dent in your wallet and encourages you to cut ties with your family and friends. Surely you can study religion without becoming a cult member.

If religion can be said to be the empowerment of people and their everyday lives, then scientology isn't really any different then current christianity....

Yes most all religions share similar undertones, but like I said above why not join a more sane one. God and Jesus are more believable then stories of the almighty Xenu traversing space in his DC-9.

Did you know hat the first vending machine was in actually a machine utilizing the weight/flow of water as leverage(provoked by the drop of a coin) to "magically' dispense Holy Water? Such was the competition of churches a thousand years ago...cheap mechanical tricks that the populace wasn't capable of understanding passed off as miracles....

That was 1000 years ago. The western world has civilized a bit since then.

If I were Germany, I would think more along the lines of banning...dare I even say that?...

..No. ...because I do believe in the freedom of belief..or religion, if you will...

Germany doesn't recognize Scientology as a religion. They see it as a business scam.