German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban

reply to post by gigaplex


You didn't disprove a thing. You threw out a splurge of random numbers at me, and "debunked" evolution with probability. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. I'm through with you here. I believe we've made it obvious in our little argument just why Scientology shouldn't be allowed anywhere, not even Germany.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by gigaplex

 

You didn't disprove a thing. You threw out a splurge of random numbers at me, and "debunked" evolution with probability. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. I'm through with you here. I believe we've made it obvious in our little argument just why Scientology shouldn't be allowed anywhere, not even Germany.

Yeah and while we're at it, let's ban darwinism too! I mean we wouldn't want eugenics getting out of hand again. How many people have died due to that? Yikes!

Oh but wait, eugenics isn't darwinism and the church of scientology isn't scientology. Maybe I'm on to something...

Just today, the proper steps have been made and one year from now, the cult of scientology will be categorized as enemy of the constitution and banned from germany. With the way, the EU works, it will be just a matter of time before those parasites will be banned throughout Europe.

It's simple as that.

Originally posted by anxietydisorder

Originally posted by FredT

Yes I said feeble.

I'm sorry to hear that you think of me as feeble minded FredT. I think you've read enough of my posts here at ATS that you would have a different opinion of me.

I have met and worked with John Travolta and know he is not feeble minded in any way, and I've seen many successful people apply the precepts of Scientology in their lives to better themselves.

If Germany bans Scientology it's only to their detriment, typical action on their part though.
Too many people espouse their views on this religion without the least bit of understanding what it's all about.

Silly humans, if you had any sense you would ban Christianity and Islamic faiths. Scientology causes no wars.

Do you not think that demanding money in quite pervasive ways (if direct demand isn't accepted) for getting a happier mindset is a bit too much like commercialism? Some countries want people to have the right to choose, but at the same time wants to keep it illegal to acquire money by using beliefs of somebody about religion. Its called abuse.

Originally posted by gigaplex
reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

 

If someone has memories of past lives, if someone remembers past civilizations, not that someone told them but memories they've discovered on their own and then they hear that some guy named Xenu set off a bomb, it's not really going to sound quite as far fetched. So the core thing that leads to your absurdity claim is that you don't believe in past lives. But really, how are past lives any crazier than your mud to man theory which has less than a one in 100 duodecillion chance of being the case?

We do not know what is the chance of being here, nor do we know anything at all about chances of any life being around. We haven't found any statistical data that would be sufficient in calculating those odds. We just do not know, so your argument wont hold in scientific method.

Space may or may not be infinite, I don't know. I do know that scientists claim there is a finite number of particles in the universe, not an infinite number of particles in the universe. So my calculation still stands. Or maybe you only believe the science that supports your religion?

We do know that much, of course, I admit that much.

Let me try and simplify this. If there was a universe that consisted of 100,000 particles in a random configuration and you needed a specific configuration of 100 particles to make something and only enough time had passed to rearrange the particles 10 times, you will more than likely not end up with what you are looking for. If under these conditions, you viewed this universe in its final state, found the configuration you were looking for but did not see anything that happened before this, you could conclude that it is highly improbable that this happened by chance. Believing that it did happen by chance would be a leap of faith.

The thing that it is a chance means by definition that it can happen, and as we do not have any other realities we must assume that it did indeed happen. If it did not, we wouldn't be here. Proof enough.

You might say that because we are here, because these bodies exist, that proves the mud to man theory even though it is a statistical improbability. This is basically identical to someone saying that God is proved to be real because the bible is the word of God. It is called circular logic and it has no place in science. Your mud to man theory is a belief system just like christianity or any other belief system. I don't really have a problem with it but it should be noted that it is a belief system.

The thing is, that empirical tests can prove those things true, that if thought forwards create alternate explanations. Empirical tests however prove exactly that there is no room to think such things forwards as they prove that it is impossible. There's a differency in semantics and logics. Words alone don't prove anything if used to mentally associate things true because of a word that exists in a theory.

What most do not understand is that if something does happen and becomes existent, it doesn't matter what the odds against it are. All we can do is that because of reality we must accept that something did happen despite low chances.

FredT- You are right about that Feeble Minded and Weak comment. However, many are just naieve and lost folks who have found Christianity and other religions sorely lacking- hence scientology offers some pretty good solutions which pretty much leaves Christ and God out of the picture except when needed for non-profit status.

Scientology could not do crapola if Germany kicked their sorry arses out of their country. I hope they do- it would definately send a message to religions (which are all cults if you ask me) and we could pursue spiritual endeavors without blashphemy- we would also avoid war, poverty, wealth and pollution and be motivated by bettering ourselves rather than financial gain. Governments would decrease in size and only operate out of neccessity- which we have not really seen yet in full swing.

Gene Roddenberry and Carl Sagan were awesome and way ahead of their time.

Score one for my team. This has officially been banned in Germany and deemed "unconstitutional." Now we're making headway!


Thanks MikeBoydUS for your attempt at posting and at least bringing it to our attention.

[edit on 7-12-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]

Well this is new news, as opposed just "German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban"

Here we have the the religion now being declared unconstitutional.
news.yahoo.com...

Since my original thread announcing this development was closed this thread should be renamed. The title is misleading and does not reflect Develoments in the last Hour.

This is the Breaking Alternative News Forum right? Not the Week old news title/story discussion forum?

reply to post by IAmTetsuo


I agree with you in one sense, but in another, don't we have an obligation to rescue people who have ended up in a situation in which they have bee defrauded and threatened? Don't we do that with people who have been kidnapped?

I think you have to prove, first, that scientology is a religion, before it is entitled to religious protection. And I think freedom of choice whether to be a part of the religion or not is a central element.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I agree, man. I thought it was unfair that they capped your thread so quickly. It is relative, but that's the reason we've been talking about this. I think we could have had better discussion about the latest developments in a new thread.

reply to post by Flyer


Then you should ban Islam for all the Terrorists.
And ban Christianity for the Crusades.

You can't paint everyone with the same brush. Individuals murder, kidnap, steal. Religion is the flag they fly, true, but not everyone that flys that flag does those things.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


No, unfortunately it is not banned YET, although the cult is declared unconstitutional, it will take a year at least to get the ban.What happened today, was that the internal ministers sat together to discuss a possible investigation and later ban. For now, evidence is being actively collected and after the legal process ( yep, it will take 12 months at least ) it will most likely be banned.

Just take into account, that you're talking about a country, that just two weeks ago awarded a "courage" price to the midget mouthpiece of the cult :/


[edit on 7-12-2007 by Phil J. Fry]

Who cares about the tread issue! Scientology just got it right in the arse- and deservedly so. We should be celebrating!!!

how could anybody buy into scientology, its NOT a religion it's pure bull. Hubbard would be in jail if he werent dead, hell his wife was thrown in jail over all this bull......seriously anyone who belives this horse#### should give their head a shake because you've been taken by a scam and a bad unbeliveable one at that.

SCIENTOLOGY IS A CULT NOT A RELIGION (so stop comaparing it to religion)

HUBBARD IS A CROOK NOT SOME SAVIOUR OR PROPHET OR WHATEVER.

anyone who is or may be a scientology follower i am laughing at you!!!! (and you deserve to be laughed at)

If this site allowed stronger harsher words i would use them all to describe how ridiculous scientology and their weak minded follower truelly are!!!!!!!

if your not going to leave have fun wasting your money for no good reason at all on a audit that does NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

scientology=

Originally posted by Togetic

I think you have to prove, first, that scientology is a religion, before it is entitled to religious protection. And I think freedom of choice whether to be a part of the religion or not is a central element.

Do you think there is less choice in Scientology than in present day Islam or Christianity in Mediaeval Europe?

If free choice is so important, how does the German government banning Scientology promote it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally with you on freedom of choice but I don't agree with your using it to define a religion. I'm also afraid that the Germans appear to be developing an appetite for Fascism again.

Realy this is nonsence! Isn't it time we though out our dead gods from thousand of years ago, and old worthless dogma, and instead get to know our neighbors and enjoy our cultural differnces and share our varieties of foods? If we are ever to advance and move out into the stars and join our brothers and sisters, we simply must dump religion. How many poor sould have died in the name of "god/God"? If you could bottle up all of the blood, I'm sure it would stock the shelves of all grocery stores world wide for years....please....please...PLEASE!!!! for the sake of humanity and world peace; dump religion, get rid of your gods, and awaken your selves. The world and all her inhabitants, as well as those in the universe are counting on you, and we need you to finally bring peace. We will only have peace when you people let go of your gods and your mind altering religions.

German Official Wants Nationwide Scientology Ban

Good. Europe, and the Germans in particular, appear to be evolving. The US could learn a lesson here, but it won't.

Originally posted by skyshow
Realy this is nonsence! Isn't it time we though out our dead gods from thousand of years ago, and old worthless dogma, and instead get to know our neighbors and enjoy our cultural differnces and share our varieties of foods? If we are ever to advance and move out into the stars and join our brothers and sisters, we simply must dump religion. How many poor sould have died in the name of "god/God"? If you could bottle up all of the blood, I'm sure it would stock the shelves of all grocery stores world wide for years....please....please...PLEASE!!!! for the sake of humanity and world peace; dump religion, get rid of your gods, and awaken your selves. The world and all her inhabitants, as well as those in the universe are counting on you, and we need you to finally bring peace. We will only have peace when you people let go of your gods and your mind altering religions.

If you think institutionalizing atheism is going to stop people from killing each other. Well thats insane.

The Reign of Terror ring any bells? How about Stalin and Mao? I can tell you right now that more people have died from Ideology, Greed, and Ambition than have Religion in all of human history.

We are a violent species and we will not stop killing until we are extinct.

Um, read what I wrote again. You completely missed the point sir. In my statement (misspellings and all) nowhere does it say anything about atheism. Instead you in fact help me to make my point even clearer as to why we need to abandon religion and these dead gods. *sighs* Why is the concept of life without religion and dead gods so hard to grasp? Even the point to much of Jesus' teachings themselves appear to be that organized religion is not needed. And indeed more people have died in the name of some god or relgion than have ever for institutionalised atheism.