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What is the purpose of hell?

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posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Raphael
 



You will know it's time when Venus is making it's next transit.


What is this supposed to mean? God gave us all the signs to look for already. I really hope you are not referring to astrology or saying that something will happen with planetary movement. Such things are not of God.




posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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Hi AshleyD,


Originally posted by AshleyD
Hey Paul...

Remember, it is not a case of only Christians experiencing heavenly NDE's while all non-Christians experience hellish NDE's. There have been atheists, Muslims, Hindus, and Agnostics who experience good NDE's as well.

Quite true.


Originally posted by AshleyD
Although hundreds of NDE accounts support the Christian view, it is not absolute proof so I have to remain cautious and skeptical as to their origns.

I'm not a Christian. Haven't been in a long time. In my view, the prophet Jesus/Issa was just that - a prophet. Which is why he is not here now, on international television, in a youthful body, healing many people on a daily basis. I was just trying to address your vantage point of understanding in order to help you understand the reality of the Near Death Experience.



Originally posted by AshleyD
This matter could have scientific explanations such as oxygen deprivation that explains some of the cases but not all of the cases (such as those who come back with supernatural knowledge or know what happened rooms away in the hospital) or spiritual explanations such as demonic deception.

That's a balanced statement.

The materialist explanation of oxygen deprivation and the chemicals released in a dying brain do not take into account the awareness that is brought back. Awareness that can only be obtained if the consciousness of the individual managed to leave the body. There are many cases of this.


Originally posted by AshleyD
One of the traps Christians fall into is accepting anything that validates our beliefs. I can't be like that. I have to review everything and all the facts completely before making my decision. As much as this subject fascinates me, I'd be going off half cocked if I were to say this is irrefutable evidence of an afterlife and the Christian faith.

An afterlife...yes. Jesus being part of an infinite Tri-God...no way. Not even close.


Originally posted by AshleyD
Don't get me wrong- I wholeheartedly believe in Christianity but for other, more substantial reasons. But the jury is still out on the NDE subject.

Hope this helps to clarify my stance.


Sure it does.


Kinglizard did a good job of explaining his own Christian-based NDE.

Which is why I referenced it.




posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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THE PURPOSE OF HELL WAS FOR THE DARK AGE RELIGOUS LEADERS TO KEEP THE MASSES IN FEAR OF HOLY RETRIBUTION FOR HERESSY AND VIOLATIONS OF CHURCH DOCTRINE. IT WAS ALL A SINISTER PLOT TO CONTROL THE MASSES WITH FEAR OF HELL AND DAMNATION TO GET THE MASSES TO DO WHAT THEY WANTED. THAT FEAR HAS CARRIED ITSELF INTO MODERN TIMES AND HAS AFFECTED PEOPLE IN MUCH THE SAME WAY. YOU CAN HEAR THIS DAMNATION SPEECH AT MOST BAPTIST CHURCHES ON ANY SUNDAY IN ANY PART OF THIS NATION AND TODAY IT IS GEARED TOWARD IMPROVING THE DONATION PLATE BECAUSE PREACHER NEEDS A NEW RIDE.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by ronbn56
 


I am glad you agree with everything I have said so far ronbn... but ouch.. could you not use all caps. It implies you are screaming and.. well.. it is rather annoying.

Thanks!
VV



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by ronbn56
 


Do you own any guns? Maybe pounding your fist on the desk as foam drips from the side of your mouth? If you don't want to be a Christian, that is your choice to make, but preachers warning you on the dangers of hell is like when you're driving your car towards a cliff and someone says, "Hey! watch out!!". In either case you don't have to listen or believe. But don't you think you could at least have some respect for other views while attempting a debate.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


I find nothing in the scripture to indicate that God just abandons anyone at any time. Since there is no such thing as time in the spiritual dimension, words like eternal have little meaning. I believe that God's justice will be perfect, and that everyone will get just what they need/deserve. In a timeless dimension, hell can be both eternal and finite. We shouldn't expect to fully understand the ways of God, they are beyond us.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD

What is this supposed to mean? God gave us all the signs to look for already. I really hope you are not referring to astrology or saying that something will happen with planetary movement. Such things are not of God.



You do not really believe that do you? God created the Universe but your saying it is not of God?

Which God is it that you pray to?

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Raphael]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 10:10 PM
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I firmly believe we are taught to reject astrology and the alignment of the planets and stars to ascertain the future. It is true that the "heavens declare His wonder" and that the sun, moon, and stars were given to us "for signs and seasons" but this was not to predict the future. It was for navigation, seasonal changes, crops and farming, etc. only.

There are over 100 signs given in the Old and New Testament referring to the end times but not one of them includes the positioning of the celestial bodies. The only "celestial sign" that is given is when the sun's appearance dramatically changes during the tribulation.

I'm not harping on you, though. I just wanted clarification on what you were implying by Venus.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 10:56 PM
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Venus is called the "morning star" or "Daystar"

It is a position in God's Kingdom. It has been held by:
Venus, Aphrodite, Helil, Resheph, Ishtar, Inana, Horus, Lucifer, Enki, Quetzylcoatl, Krishna, Asmodeus, Ba'alzebub, Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, The Deceiver, and The Accuser
and HER position of power coming to an end described in Isaiah 14.

Isaiah 14
12. "O Daystar (Venus) son of Dawn."

13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.

14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

17 the man who made the world a desert,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?"

18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.

19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,

20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
The offspring of the wicked
will never be mentioned again.

21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons
for the sins of their forefathers;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.

22 "I will rise up against them,"
declares the LORD Almighty.
"I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,"
declares the LORD.

23 "I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,"
declares the LORD Almighty.

The scripture in Isaiah depict the fall of Lucifer as Lord.


Revelation 2:28 says, "I will also give him the morning star."

Revelation 22:16 Jesus is called the "bright and morning star."

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Raphael]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by resistor
reply to post by resistor
 


I find nothing in the scripture to indicate that God just abandons anyone at any time.


I was just thinking, as soon as god sends us to hell in the first place, for what ever reason, isn't god then 'abandoning' us? God resides in heaven not hell......that's where Satan is, unless god is Satan as well, but then that just creates more questions then answers.....

And just out of curiosity, who is Satan, isn't he the god of hell (or miner god), but I thought there was but one god, no wait, there's three, but one, but three, wait what……...?

Satan from what I’ve read he is the prince of darkness, a fallen angel, a demon and is known as many names: including Lucifer, Hades etc.



Since there is no such thing as time in the spiritual dimension, words like eternal have little meaning.


If you are referring to the Christian bible, I haven’t done enough research to know what the exact meaning of eternity is in hell, but certainly in the Islamic religion the Qur’an firmly states that once you're in hell, you're in there for ever.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by andre18]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Raphael
 



Venus is called the "morning star" or "Daystar"

Isaiah 14
12. "O Daystar (Venus) son of Dawn."


You only quoted part of the verse and inserted the interpretation as being Venus so allow me to quote Isaiah 14:12 in its entirety without assigning it any additional interpretation:

"How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low to the nations!"

Has the planet Venus ever fallen from heaven? Has Venus ever fallen to the earth? Has Venus ever conquered nations?

As I say to the readers of my website, when in doubt look at the context. Isaiah wrote this around the time of the Babylonian captivity. Babylonia was the first world empire, a hub of the ancient world in regards to religion, culture, and commerce, was a splendor of majestic wonder, and had military might never before seen on the earth that allowed it to conquer all other nations (including Israel).

Isaiah is prophesying the fall of this great city that will fall from the pinnacle of power (heaven) to ruin (the earth). It also has a dual spiritual meaning describing the fall of Lucifer from grace. Lucifer was once referred to as an angel of light and the bright morning star. He was one of the most beautiful and powerful of God's angels but rebelled and lost his place.

Simple exegesis tells us exactly what this verse means in both the literal sense (the fall of Babylon) and the spiritual sense (the fall of Lucifer). There is really no need to assign it another interpretation.

It is an interesting theory but we would 1) have to be putting things into the text that simply aren't there 2) assume a completely different interpretation of what internal biblical evidence provides 3) completely ignore the context of what else Isaiah is saying.

Even still, let's pretend for a moment this is talking about a sign in Venus (which I do not believe). How is this evidence of Jesus' return concerning the position of Venus?

Again, please don't think I'm attacking you one bit. We're just having a friendly discussion.




posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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You only quoted part of the verse and inserted the interpretation as being Venus so allow me to quote Isaiah 14:12 in its entirety without assigning it any additional interpretation:

"How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low to the nations!"

Has the planet Venus ever fallen from heaven? Has Venus ever fallen to the earth? Has Venus ever conquered nations?


Yes, Yes, and Yes.. Venus is the habitation of The Lord and HER army includes Mars. Venus betrayed God and fell in love with Mars who crafted weapons for Her. She was then bound to the bottomless pit for 1000 years along with Mars. She loved Mars and Mars heart burned for Her.

Today she loves Earth and has once again setup Babylon. She is the Harlot and she was responsible for the Trojan War. Venus is the symbol of love; and we often see Venus looking at herself in a mirror. We also know that Venus (or Aphrodite in Greece) rose from the sea. Some have described her as wearing a necklace of pearls.

Sounding familiar yet to your scriptures in Revelation?

Venus is also the Flaming Sword in Genesis guarding the way to justice which lies in Love and Truth.


As I say to the readers of my website, when in doubt look at the context. Isaiah wrote this around the time of the Babylonian captivity. Babylonia was the first world empire, a hub of the ancient world in regards to religion, culture, and commerce, was a splendor of majestic wonder, and had military might never before seen on the earth that allowed it to conquer all other nations (including Israel).


Where do you think we have come back to today? Who do you think has been influencing the movement back to a one world society of Babylon?


Isaiah is prophesying the fall of this great city that will fall from the pinnacle of power (heaven) to ruin (the earth). It also has a dual spiritual meaning describing the fall of Lucifer from grace. Lucifer was once referred to as an angel of light and the bright morning star. He was one of the most beautiful and powerful of God's angels but rebelled and lost his place.


Exactly what I am telling you.


Simple exegesis tells us exactly what this verse means in both the literal sense (the fall of Babylon) and the spiritual sense (the fall of Lucifer). There is really no need to assign it another interpretation.

I haven't, for my interpretation is the same.


It is an interesting theory but we would 1) have to be putting things into the text that simply aren't there 2) assume a completely different interpretation of what internal biblical evidence provides 3) completely ignore the context of what else Isaiah is saying.


You have only reiterated what I have said.


Even still, let's pretend for a moment this is talking about a sign in Venus (which I do not believe). How is this evidence of Jesus' return concerning the position of Venus?


Venus reveals hidden "monsters" that are ordinarily invisible or out of reach of us.

Trust me you do not want to see Venus jealous or angry but most of us will.



[edit on 12-12-2007 by Raphael]



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by Raphael
 


I understand what you are implying but I have to say it is unscriptual, Hon. Nowhere in the Bible is the following taught:

1) Heaven is on Venus.
2) Venus' army includes Mars
3) Mars crafted weapons for Venus
4) A love affair between Mars and Venus
5) The other half a dozen Venus references you mentioned

So I have to answer your question with a no because nowhere in Revelation, nevertheless anywhere in the Bible, are such things taught. You are trying to merge Greek/Roman mythology with the symbolism mentioned in the Bible (that predates Greek and Roman mythology for the record).

I believe the only two planets mentioned explicitly in the Bible are Venus and Saturn. However, neither of their mentions are used for prophetic purposes via signs. I'm not sure where you are getting this information but it is not Biblical.

[edit on 12/12/2007 by AshleyD]



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD

1) Heaven is on Venus.
2) Venus' army includes Mars
3) Mars crafted weapons for Venus
4) A love affair between Mars and Venus



I am not saying Heaven is on Venus. I am saying The Lord's Bride which is HIS SPIRIT is from Venus. The FLAMING SWORD that guards the tree of life.



So I have to answer your question with a no because nowhere in Revelation, nevertheless anywhere in the Bible, are such things taught. You are trying to merge Greek/Roman mythology with the symbolism mentioned in the Bible (that predates Greek and Roman mythology for the record).


It is the same parallel being played out over and over in history.



I believe the only two planets mentioned explicitly in the Bible are Venus and Saturn. However, neither of their mentions are used for prophetic purposes via signs. I'm not sure where you are getting this information but it is not Biblical.


It is described all over the bible but you are lost and do not understand because you are reading it from this world which it is not.

Babylon will fall AGAIN

One recommendation I have is for you to familiarize yourself with The Book of The Dead.

[edit on 12-12-2007 by Raphael]



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 01:07 AM
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I thought that maybe this would be a good discussion between people who respect one another, but I was surely wrong. As soon as one opinion comes in there are other self righteous "I'm right because I'm me and this is what I believe so I'm better" people. It doesn't matter what your faith is in or what you believe. As soon as you think you're BETTER than other people don't expect to get a warm welcome to whatever afterlife you hope to transfer to.

People who really do have good will and love for one another don't immediately turn self centered and have to quote and try to shove their religious texts down others throats just so they have a REASON to be selfish about their beliefs. Religions are old, reused, changed, and renewed for the sake of keeping people in line, and it works. But you know what? Ask yourself one thing. If the God or Goddess were like the text read, do you really think they'd send you to hell for getting rid of religious beliefs so people would be peaceful about it? IMHO no I don't think so. No loving Creator would get pissed and punish someone getting rid of something that makes people judge one another, think they're better than others because their religion says it does, and get people to stop using it as an excuse to act inhumane and down right cruel towards each other.

thanks for reading night night



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Raphael
 




I am not saying Heaven is on Venus. I am saying The Lord's Bride which is HIS SPIRIT is from Venus. The FLAMING SWORD that guards the tree of life.


Alright, I'm sorry I misunderstood you but this is still bogus and unscriptual.



It is described all over the bible but you are lost and do not understand because you are reading it from this world which it is not.


All over the Bible? You're going to have to cite some references for this. Again, the only planets mentioned explicitly are Venus and Saturn and the context of their references has nothing to do with astrology.


Babylon will fall AGAIN


This is something on which we can agree. However, I don't see this as being foretold with the positioning of the planets.


One recommendation I have is for you to familiarize yourself with The Book of The Dead.


What relevance does this have for me? Exactly what Book of the Dead are you referring to (there are quite a few)? Why would a Christian feel the need to learn about God in mythological pagan texts? How is it scriptual to look for signs in such mythological nonbiblical texts? What is your favorite pizza topping (thought I'd throw this in)?



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by UnderCoveted
 


I haven't seen very much of this in this thread. It seems most people are handling it quite well and are enjoying a good discussion with civility.



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by UnderCoveted
 


I haven't seen very much of this in this thread. It seems most people are handling it quite well and are enjoying a good discussion with civility.



I agree this is still a civil thread.

I am trying to enlighten you to the history of God which has been repeated over and over throughout the ages. The end times presents an actual event happening in our reality which has been revealed by God through The Spirit and through Jesus himself. The Mayans were some of the wisest astrologers of human history and they speak of Venus and associate her with Religion.

The Aztecs believed in Quetzalcoatl who was sky and creator god. The name is a combination of quetzal, a brightly colored bird, and coatl, meaning serpent. Haven't we learned who the Serpent is yet? I really hope you begin to get this..



The serpent, when forming a ring with its tail in its mouth, is a clear and widespread symbol of the "All-in-All", the totality of existence, infinity and the cyclic nature of the cosmos. The most well known version of this is the Aegypto-Greek Ourobouros. It is believed to have been inspired by the Milky Way as some ancient texts refer to a serpent of light residing in the heavens.

In Norse mythology the World Serpent (or Midgard serpent) known as Jörmungandr encircled the world in the ocean's abyss biting its own tail.

In Hindu mythology Vishnu is said to sleep while floating on the cosmic waters on the serpent Shesha. In the Puranas Shesha holds all the planets of the universe on his hoods and to constantly sing the glories of Vishnu from all his mouths.

The demi-god Aidophedo of the West African Ashanti is also a serpent biting its own tail. In Dahomey mythology of Benin in West Africa, the serpent that supports everything on its many coils was named Dan. In the Vodou of Benin and Haiti Ayida-Weddo (a.k.a. Aida-Wedo, Aido Quedo, "Rainbow-Serpent") is a spirit of fertility, rainbows and snakes, and a companion or wife to Dan, the father of all spirits.

In many myths the chthonic serpent (sometimes a pair) lives in or is coiled around a Tree of Life situated in a divine garden. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is situated in the Garden of Eden together with the tree of immortality.


The Serpent is The Spirit of God. The Vision Serpent was also a symbol of rebirth in Mayan mythology.

"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made,"



"The Queen of Heaven".
the most important goddess of the
Sumerian pantheon in ancient Mesopotamia.
She is the goddess of love, fertility, and war.


The Akkadians called her Ishtar.


What does this have to do with Venus?
Who comes form Venus?
Who offers Eternal Life to the Living in the material world? God and His Flaming Sword bride. Verily, this is the light bearer which is the light and the truth and life!

[edit on 12-12-2007 by Raphael]



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
(Posts in general)


Are you saying that someone who isn't Christian is automatically the equivalent of Adolf Hitler?

...sure seemed to...



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by Kacen
 


That would be a no. Not remotely. I was using him as an example to demonstrate the two extremes of humanity.



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