It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

What is the purpose of hell?

page: 4
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 7 2007 @ 06:52 AM
link   
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 

The source you reference is an example of BIAS.


Wake up and smell your PREJUDICE


Yes, they can duplicate some of the elements of the Near Death Experience in a laboratory.

But the most important aspects, that which prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that consciousness can exist without a body, cannot be duplicated in a lab with chemicals and/or electrical stimulation.

Namely, the fact that many people, when declared clinically dead, have:

1. Witnessed specific conversations (like at a party of a relative miles away), that was subsequently confirmed to have happened.

2. Brought back scientific advancements from their NDE.

3. Seen and heard doctors and nurses, from the vantage point of hovering over them, and have also seen other things in the hospital, that could not possibly have been witnessed unless they were out of their body.

There are many other examples. Explore the references I provided.

Materialists try so hard to disprove the reality that there is life before birth and life after death, and that we are constantly surrounded by more life on the Other Side than there is on This Side.

But many people have had one or more Near Death Experiences and/or After Death Communications, and the evidence continues to increase.

And always will.






posted on Dec, 7 2007 @ 09:57 AM
link   
reply to post by tgambill
 


Hi/tgambill,
Thank you for pointing this out to me....
Im sorry, I did not word my answer properly!


...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Phil 2:12)


And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank Thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (St. Luke 18:9-14)

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom...." (Proverbs 1:7) and "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell" (St. Matthew 10:28)
In the New Testament(Gospels)Hell is a place where demons dwell and will be let loose for a little while(one thousand or so years-biblically speaking)



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 01:42 AM
link   
the purpose of hell is for bad people to get what they deserve according to god through there sins



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 02:03 AM
link   
IMO, hell is simply a metaphor for separation from God. Those who reject God and don’t want to be with him get what they want. Unfortunately, they don’t understand that everything that is good in this existence is due to God’s spirit being present, and that’s what makes hell so horrible, it is total separation from everything good. We all decide whether we want to be with God, or his enemies. Do what thou wilt.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 10:22 PM
link   
reply to post by Dark_Ace
 


As I’ve already said in my original post, we have jail for three main reasons: for correctional purposes, to serve detriment for someone else and to help society continue to run.

Hell doesn’t fit any of those three categories, for example: once you’re in hell you don’t have the option to leave even if you repent for your sins, you’re in there for eternity. If you don’t believe in hell, hell itself is not going to stop you form doing bad things and etc etc…..

We have jail for bad people (we can see jail, we know it’s there) and so people gradually stop doing bad things or think twice before doing it incase they end up in jail.

So since hell doesn’t have the effect on us as jail has, what's its purpose?



[edit on 11-12-2007 by andre18]



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 10:35 PM
link   
reply to post by andre18
 


You're applying earthly matters to the spiritual. It's an inapt analogy. There's really no such thing as true justice in this life, and I admit it takes faith to believe that there will be such in the next.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 10:37 PM
link   
reply to post by andre18
 


That is a good question but not all forms of human-issued punishment are based on the principle of reform either. Life sentences and obviously death sentences are meant to solely be punishments and not to rehabilitate the criminal.

Still though, this is comparing man's law and consequences to God's law and consequences.

However, even as a Christian I detest the concept of an eternal hell. People might have believed Christianity was as a nonsensical myth before but would surely accept it as fact after seeing Hell. This desire of mine goes against the Bible which states Hell is eternal but I do hope the original text is only a hyperbole of sorts.

I don't wish an eternity in Hell on anyone- not even Hitler or Osama Bin Laden. As much as such people disgust me, the thought of anyone suffering eternal torment breaks my heart.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 10:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by resistor
IMO, hell is simply a metaphor for separation from God. Those who reject God and don’t want to be with him get what they want. Unfortunately, they don’t understand that everything that is good in this existence is due to God’s spirit being present, and that’s what makes hell so horrible, it is total separation from everything good. We all decide whether we want to be with God, or his enemies. Do what thou wilt.



Perhaps God, being merciful, will show them what it looks like without him, and give them a last chance. Of course, I'm a doubter that God simply abandons you to fire without trying to help you.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 11:42 PM
link   
Hello everyone,
I think this thread is cool.I have wondered this for a long time.My question is can there be redemption if you go to hell.I mean lets say you aren't a good person but not a real bad person either.Does that mean you are dammed to hell forever?I know what we do carries over with us in the afterlife but if god is all loveing and merciful I can't see him keeping us in hell forever.Like in NDE's I watched on tv where a guy died and went to hell.They were tearing him apart etc and he begged god and jesus for help and jesus came down and brought him back to his body.So I ask again can there be redemption in hell?Me personaly I think hell could be a place for finale redemption if we can find it with in ourselves.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 12:01 AM
link   
reply to post by othello
 


Othello, I swear I almost brought that man's experience up in my previous comment but decided not to since I remain very skeptical about near death experiences. Too funny!

He was an ardent atheist who converted to Christianity and now fearlessly spreads the faith after his experience. Of course, it could have been a hallucination caused by oxygen deprivation and we must remember that no matter how much someone believes something was real does not mean that it was real.

His is an interesting story indeed.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 12:01 AM
link   
Death is eventually pitched into the Lake of Fire. Death is no demon or angel doing God's bidding. Death is an eventuallity. How can death, a concept of finality, be tortured forever?

The Lake of Fire is also referred to as the Second Death, the place of no return. Bury a dead body in the earth and there will be remains if the body is dug up later, proving the person lived once. Burn up a dead body in a crematorium and the remains becomes dust, no longer showing proof that the individual ever lived.

The concept of the first Hell or grave is being remembered.
The concept of the second Hell or Death is not being remembered.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 10:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by Gorman91
I'm Christian, but Highly doubt "permanent" hell. I just can't believe what you did in 100 years will get you eternity of hell.


You are a wise man. The world we live in today is the world of doing. When we die and receive eternal life we also receive eternal truth. It is is here where we experience the eternal reality of what we are. Hell? Hell is a place of separation where you can not be transformed. Not many people will ever get to here. Pharaoh may have made it there.

Our lifetimes in the face of eternity are short. There has to be some punishment for evil throughout all of history, but to think eternal punishment and damnation is what is ahead for petty offenses, especially after such a short time in the scope of eternity, is misconstrued.

When a person dies their soul will relive their own lives in front of everyone. Every decision and every thought, all the good deeds, and the embarrassing things a person experienced in private is all reviewed without any embellishments. It's fully bared for all to see. That's why the next world is called Olam HaEmet. This translates "the World of Truth."

Here we clearly recognize our personal strengths and shortcomings, and the true purpose of life. Then God will show you what you could have been had you followed all of God's laws and lived in righteousness.

This is God's FLAMING SWORD. The Spirit will dwell within you and your heart will be cut by your own transgressions.

This is the way to Eternity. Through God's Spirit which is his Flaming Sword and manifest through his Cherubim. The books of truth will be opened in front of all to see. No one will be a stranger and the spirit of God will dwell among men. Those who receive life will hear the sounds of 1,000,000 symphonies rejoicing and praising God for all his righteousness and truth as you are raised up into that heavenly cloud. Blessed is the one who seeks righteousness in every aspect of his life. Your reward will be great.


[edit on 11-12-2007 by Raphael]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 10:57 AM
link   
Hell was not made man but for the devil and his angels. But if you reject God and make Him your enemy you get to go there. God sends no one to hell who has not chosen to go there themselves by rejecting Him. The choice is your to make. Want to stay out of hell? Say yes to the offer that Christ has made to take your sin upon Himself as paying your debt for you and then say yes to His offer to live. That is to be reborn through Gods Spirit by grace. If you will accept the gift of eternal life through Christ, you will live. If you reject the offer, you will stay dead as you are now and when your physical body expires you will go where you have chosen to go. To show how merciful and loving God is, He's goning to let you be your own judge and let you choose life or death. How do you choose life? Or rather, how did I choose.


"Lord Jesus, I believe that you are the Son of God.
I realize that I have sinned against you.
Please forgive me of all of my sins and make me clean.
I accept what you did for me on the cross that you died to save me.
I believe you rose again and I ask you to be the Lord of my life.
I accept you now and forever as my Lord and saivior, amen"


If you can believe and say that from your heart, you will have been given the promise of eternal life from God the Father forever. You will never go to hell as you are no longer God's enemy, and not found guilty of the origional sin of Adam that has come upon everyone till now.

So what do you choose. To some, this is it here and now. Some will live. And some will die by what they do now.

Stay out of hell.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Fromabove]

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Fromabove]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 11:00 AM
link   
Hi othello,


Originally posted by othello
Hello everyone,
I think this thread is cool.I have wondered this for a long time.My question is can there be redemption if you go to hell.I mean lets say you aren't a good person but not a real bad person either.Does that mean you are dammed to hell forever?

Of course not.

Spirituality, growth, and evil are all a matter of degree.

Past-life regression research has many cases whereby someone was hypnotically regressed to an Interlife or period in-between incarnations, and it was a hellish place for them. They all knew that they were there because of how they conducted themselves in life and were glad to eventually leave.

You leave from striving to live by The Golden Rule, by serving to counterbalance your negative karmic debts to people, and by learning to be a more caring, more loving, more spiritually responsible individual.

We all get what we deserve in The Light and there is no bargaining or shortcuts.


Originally posted by othello
I know what we do carries over with us in the afterlife but if god is all loveing and merciful I can't see him keeping us in hell forever.Like in NDE's I watched on tv where a guy died and went to hell.They were tearing him apart etc and he begged god and jesus for help and jesus came down and brought him back to his body.So I ask again can there be redemption in hell?Me personaly I think hell could be a place for finale redemption if we can find it with in ourselves.

Similar accounts have occurred with other god-icons in other religions.

Technically, when one has an NDE or astral projects, one only ventures to the First Plane. Demonland. That is, unless there are people who are on at least a slightly higher dimension and who can assist in temporarily severing the silver chord (the bond to the flesh) and raise the soul vibration to at least a basically spiritual place in The Light. As with most NDE's, this is typically on the Fourth Plane, where all the religious heavens or large cities of light are located.

Traditional Seven Plane Paradigm & Beyond

That is why I recommend that people not pursue astral projection for spiritual illumination.

reply to post by AshleyD
 

If you are a Christian and are skeptical about Near Death Experiences, you should read about kinglizard's account.



[edit on 11-12-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 01:08 PM
link   


If you are a Christian and are skeptical about Near Death Experiences, you should read about kinglizard's account.


Hey Paul. It's not that I don't believe something is happening- I believe without a doubt these individuals experienced something. As to what that something is remains a mystery.

Remember, it is not a case of only Christians experiencing heavenly NDE's while all non-Christians experience hellish NDE's. There have been atheists, Muslims, Hindus, and Agnostics who experience good NDE's as well. Although hundreds of NDE accounts support the Christian view, it is not absolute proof so I have to remain cautious and skeptical as to their origns.

This matter could have scientific explanations such as oxygen deprivation that explains some of the cases but not all of the cases (such as those who come back with supernatural knowledge or know what happened rooms away in the hospital) or spiritual explanations such as demonic deception.

One of the traps Christians fall into is accepting anything that validates our beliefs. I can't be like that. I have to review everything and all the facts completely before making my decision. As much as this subject fascinates me, I'd be going off half cocked if I were to say this is irrefutable evidence of an afterlife and the Christian faith.

Don't get me wrong- I wholeheartedly believe in Christianity but for other, more substantial reasons. But the jury is still out on the NDE subject.

Hope this helps to clarify my stance.





posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 01:14 PM
link   
reply to post by andre18
 


Actually the concepts of 'Hell' and 'demons/angels' etc. were invented by the early Christian church as a psychological tool to keep chuch members from straying from the tenets of the Bible. There are a few very good scholarly works on the early christian church - highly reccomended.

J.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 01:16 PM
link   
reply to post by AshleyD
 


Interestingly, all the effects of NDE's have been recently re-created by scientists using brain stimulation. This was in the news only a week or so ago...

J.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 02:06 PM
link   
I had stated before that there is no real purpose to hell other than to scare the early christians into behaving as the church wanted them to. Whether this be spiritually, physically, and/or mentally.

In the medieval time, it was the church who had the power and they were the ones who kept the population in check for the nobility. The sermons of hell were used to keep the peasants in line. No rebellions through fear. It worked most of the time.

Either way, a place of punishment is suppose to reform the one being punished. Not keep him there eternally in torture. For any who say that the christian god is merciful and loving, simply look at what hell is ( a place of eternal torture) and then apply that to the definitions of merciful and loving. It doesn't add up. A parent loves their child and is merciful to their child. When the child does wrong, the parent punishes the child to teach them to not do that again. A parent does not torture a child for the rest of their life. A parent does not separate themselves from the child for the rest of their life.

The concept of hell is made up. It is a fear tactic and it, sadly, works.

VV



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 02:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by jimbo999Interestingly, all the effects of NDE's have been recently re-created by scientists using brain stimulation. This was in the news only a week or so ago...


I heard about this but weren't they only able to simulate the "light at the end of the tunnel" and "hell" type experiences? Didn't it leave out the supernatural and explained knowledge that often accompanies NDE's? I only heard it in passing because I don't pay too much attention to the phenomenon so let me know. Thanks!



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 04:29 PM
link   
The Prince of Eternity waits till the day of Judgment. You will see him in the clouds, white, and glowing like silvery fire. He is the light bearer, the way to everlasting life and he is appointed authority to Judge the people. He controls the principalities and powers related to Venus and holds the key to the underworld.



"I am the heir of endless time...I, even I, am he that knoweth the paths of heaven."

"I have given bread to the hungry man and water to the thirsty man and clothing to the naked person"

"I am the light of the world....I am the way, the truth and the life."
"Before Abraham was, I am"


The seal will be opened to the book of life. The seal is broken by the Spirit of God, which does, and will dwell amongst the souls of Men. Your eyes will be open like when Adam took the fruit from Eve. Everything you have kept secret your entire life will be out in the open. The Spirit of God can only dwell in Truth and does not mix with darkness. There are no secrets to God for his Spirit knows all things.

And when you noticed that you were naked and could no longer hide your transgressions from yourself you wept in all the sorrow and pain that you wouldn't believe the truth.

In that time many will claim the Serpent or God's Son tricked them! But in the end they tricked themselves because they did not follow God's law and lived by their own iniquities. God tempts man all the time but men are expected to stay strong and firm in the way of goodness, which reside in God's commandments.

May you all find eternal life at the feast of tabernacles, which is soon upon us. Where the books are open and the gates of salvation descend in the site of Man. Which is coming very very soon. The time left is nothing but a blink in the face of Earthly time.

You will know it's time when Venus is making it's next transit.


[edit on 11-12-2007 by Raphael]




top topics



 
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join