Alternative to money?

Originally posted by curiousbeliever
I think a society like this could work... with the right technology.

what we need is zero point energy and an army of robots to serve us. the robots do all of the boring repetitive jobs while humans would have the creative jobs that we enjoy doing. we'd just have to make sure the robots aren't programmed to be self aware so that we don't turn them into a slave race of sentient beings.

we could program robots that harvest/cook food, sew clothing, build shelter, etc. etc. Then any one human wouldn't be required to 'work' since they'd have all their basic needs taken care of.

that's my idea of a utopia anyway.

Interesting, robots could solve the problem of people who are not willing or able to work...

i too think we should get rid of all forms of money, it is the root of most evil. i just had this discussion a few weeks ago with my parents and they said that if we had no money we would be a communist country. that last part didn't make any sense to me at all.

so how would trade work without money? What if I wanted some apples, but had nothing to offer the person with apples? What if I was a plumber or something, and I wanted a load of bread. How would I acquire it without money?

Money is simply a standard unit of trade, nothing inherently evil about it. Quite naive to think otherwise. Again, I'll state the only problem with our system is fractional reserve banking.

Why do we have lazy people? Because obviously, money does NOT inspire everyone. We are all unique individuals who should be able to get by in life with the skills we are good at. Nobody should be forced into a miserable factory making next to nothing an hour, unless that type of thing doesn't bother them. Some people aren't bothered by it, but I will tell you now, some people find minimum wage jobs at hellhole work environments to be the equivalent of Satan ****ing them constantly. Why do you think the suicide rate is rising? You can't blame people for not wanting to work as more or less slaves, especially when you look at the education system in America. It's designed to crank out obedient drones, and those who don't conform, who rebel against the bland sham of a system, or those that have learning defficiencies, they eventually get weeded out with the No Child Left Behind system.... in high school.... dropout rates are rising, and lemme tell you from personal experience in a suburban school system (no doubt it's worse in urban areas), these people ENCOURAGE dropping out. If someone isn't following the curriculum to satisfactory levels, they eventually get talked into dropping out by teachers and counselors. I saw so many people around me drop out, and they were all encouraged to do so.... SMART people, nonetheless.
So... when you're a high school dropout, and you can't really get a good enough job to really advance upwards in the system, you get disillusioned with it REAL quick, especially when you get just how much of a lie it all is.
So just because somebody doesn't wanna slave away for 3/4ths of their waking life just to be able to live, DOES NOT make them lazy. It makes them possibly a deeper thinker than the rest of the mindless drones in this society who think this is NATURAL.

I'll admit, there are lazy people out there, but you have to wonder why people are lazy? Is it ALWAYS because they are selfish and think it's right to feed off other people's work? Not in my opinion.

Usually, the people with more money than most are the ones who are selfishly lazy....

Some people are just fed up with this system of society. It goes against their natural instincts. Simple as that.

You'd find a very very few amount of lazy people in a society where everyone is allowed to live using skills that come natural to them, instead of being forced to do things that don't fulfill them to earn meaningless pieces of paper and consume mindless man-made poison, only to die broken, miserable, overweight, unhealthy, life wasted. Everyone has a calling, but very few are actually ever allowed to realize that calling, or it's put on the backburner as just a hobby, while they spend their valuable time making someone else rich.

It's common sense, man. Bitterness towards people who think outside of the box just because you're stuck in the rut and fooled into thinking you are happy, that is not needed here.

A cashless society is inevitable if we are to survive on this earth. Back to following nature's guidelines. We will all flourish that way.

Just because you can't see it now, doesn't mean it's not possible.

reply to post by indierockalien


you are all over the place man...

suicide rates, no child left behind, etc. I'm still interested to hear someone's take on a cashless society. How would that work? Honor system?

Originally posted by RancidCat
Money is the cause of all evil, well the pursuit of it is, no doubt the majority of you are aware of Star Trek and as some of you are aware at the times that it is set Earth has done away with the concept of money, people have roles and everything is provided.
Could this be a reality? how would jobs be assigned, the garbage man, the policeman the entertainer? I.Q? genetic disposition/tampering? would all still be seen as equal?

Personally i would love to see the concept of money abolished and a method of bartering items and skills for goods and services, but that will never happen again in my life time.

Any thoughts.

This is the one thing I hated about Star Trek..lol

It's simply wrong to force a social class onto someone..

"you will be a street Sweeper"... "You will be a starship captain"....."you will be a Sex Worker"....etc.

I know I would'nt like to be simply given a lot in life & then just have to live with it for the rest of my life.

What you are suggesting is a Hive mentality. Humans just aren't capable of being satisfied with a single role in life.

We like diversity & we like to experiment. Most humans just can't sit still & have to try new things untill they find the profession or lifestyle thay are happy with.

If this sort of sociaty came about tomorrow, People would become unhappy with their lives very quickly, if they had no choice in how they wish to live.

I know I'd rebel pretty quick if I was a talented & well know Artist who had to give up painting to be a reletively unknown Toilet cleaner, just because my Genes were a little off...!!!

DNA has nothing to do with an individuals ability to do a particualr job. Life experience, education & Emotion & dedication, dictates what each individual is capable of.

Having the ability to choose your own future is human, having someone else do it for you will only make you less human.

A sociaty like this would crumble fast unless it was a shared duty style sociaty, where everyone was a toilet cleaner or a sex worker or starship captain. Where every responsibility was shared by evry person.

But because we are human & not Bees or ants, this will never be a reality.

[edit on 12/4/2007 by Ironclad]

reply to post by scientist


just take what you NEED and leave the rest for other people. but i know we will never actually see that because people are too greedy, they won't help any one but themselves.

It's not money itself that creates greed it's the love of it. It's a mental problem. If you have laws which prevent monopolies and power hungry corporations then capitalism could work. We do not have laws punishing accountants for cooking the books. There needs to be much more stiffer laws pertaining to white collar crime. Maybe these CEO's ripping off the share holders could face the death penalty. When you take someones life savings you just killed them so I think we should bring back the guillotine.

It would never work there are too many greedy materialistic people in the world and half of them probably live here in the U.S.

Originally posted by coryblood
reply to post by scientist

 

just take what you NEED and leave the rest for other people. but i know we will never actually see that because people are too greedy, they won't help any one but themselves.

A poor man is poor because he want's to be poor. A wealthy man is wealthy because he has the drive & dedication to become that way.

People who dislike Capitolism are the are simlpy lazy & selfish people who want it all right now & for free.

I made a lot of money by painting Sci-Fi & Fantasy Art & selling it to collectors or companies for book covers etc..

I took a skill & made a living from it. What right dose anyone have to tell me to give all that away to a poor person who has never done a thing to help himself?

Everyone has skills, everyone has the potential to become wealthy "if they reeealy, reeealy want to", or atleast to make themselves comfortable. EVERYONE!!!

This is what capitolism is about So whats so evil about people helping themselves?

I came from nothing "0", "Nada", to where i am now If I could do it, anyone who really wants to can also.

BTW, my Avatar is one of my own works...

Oh and before anyone goes sprouting off about all the countries where everyone is poor and starving....

Whats capitolism got to do with that?

Those countries are not capitolistic countries, they are dictatorships, communist or fanatcal religious countries & thats why the people there are poor & hungry.

Fair enough to help the poor & starving in places where nature has had a role to play & not other humans. Cases like that are differant these people truly ccannot help themselves because nature has delt then too big a blow.

But poor ppl in every major western country have only themselves to blame for being too lazy to get them selves out of their rutts!!!

[edit on 12/4/2007 by Ironclad]

Technology is the alternative to money. And it will be the private sector that makes it real. We the citizens of our countries are gonna have to turn into Tesla's, Einstein's, and Brown's etc.. We have to make money disappear. Free energy is there, money didn't make our universe. I believe we are in a time when we only think we know what's real. By that I look back to history when people actually thought the world was flat and that everything orbited the earth. Well they were wrong. How do we know we aren't wrong about all our theories and believes? To me it looks like all the things in Star Trek and Sci-Fi movies are coming to be. I sometimes wonder if we can imagine it then it can become reality. We have to do it ourselfs with education, inventions and passion. It will take awhile for the powerful and the corrupt to fall by their own ignorance, but in the end we the people of earth will win. Just believe it can be done and focus on making it happen. Teach your children to be their own person and to educate them beyond government education.

I have to agree with Ironclad.

Usually wealthy people are wealthy becasue of the mindset they have in which they are not interested in working a 7-8 hour day 5 days a week job. They want to be comfortable and not have to worry about their next pay check.

Wealthy people after they have finally "made it" from a recent book I've read called "CEO's of Australia" dont really care of how much money their company is making but rather keeping it growing and developing. You have to understand that these people also make jobs for other people... Which in turn keeps the economy rolling.

A society without money... Well you would still have the "have's and have nots"

Who gets to have positions of power? Management, officals etc

reply to post by Ironclad


so you are trying to tell me that someone who is born into a family with no money, therefore they can't get an education, wants to be poor and lazy and a person born into a rich family will remain rich because he is hard working even if they just sit around all day? don't say that the poor people could use a musical or artistic talent because not everyone has a talent like that, yes they have talents but it might not get them any money

[edit on 4-12-2007 by coryblood]

Originally posted by coryblood
reply to post by Ironclad

 

so you are trying to tell me that someone who is born into a family with no money, therefore they can't get an education, wants to be poor and lazy and a person born into a rich family will remain rich because he is hard working even if they just sit around all day? don't say that the poor people could use a musical or artistic talent because not everyone has a talent like that, yes they have talents but it might not get them any money

[edit on 4-12-2007 by coryblood]

These people are fortunate enough to have been born into families where the founders of wealth decided to pass on their riches to their descendants. If these people are "lazy" they and their heirs will squander away the money and they will be back to being poor. Its been like this for centuries, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

And please dont give this BS about if your poor you cant get educated. If you study hard you can easily get through school on scholarships and student loans. I personally know plenty who are doing it. With enough determination you can get through all obstacles.

reply to post by surf911


i'm not saying that it isn't possible but there is a much lower chance and they would probably need a full scholorship to a school.

Originally posted by coryblood
reply to post by scientist

 

just take what you NEED and leave the rest for other people. but i know we will never actually see that because people are too greedy, they won't help any one but themselves.

that doesn't make any sense. If somebody is clearly a better shoemaker than me, than who are you to say I don't NEED some good shoes. Unless there is a medium that we can trade with, I get eliminated from benefiting. Sounds like a horrible idea to me, but then again your avatar explains a bit more.

reply to post by scientist


whats with the insults i thought that we were mature here and i have no idea what you are talking about in that last post. are you saying that you will go out of business if someone is better than you?

insults? I mention your avatar with the anarchy symbol. clearly you are for no system at all, unless it's more of a punk-rock statement. either way it does provide some insight into where your reasoning comes from. not sure where the insult comes into play

im saying, there's no such thing as "going out of business" if there is no money, and no means to trade goods with other people. If you make shoes, and I own cows... but you are a vegan... how would i get shoes from you?

Another thing to consider (among an infinite amount): what happens when somebody in the family dies that was running a trade... there is no inheritance without personal property or money. so if a husband leaves a widow with 3 kids, how does that work?

Money, money, money, money.....

Yeah, it makes the world all go round, round, and round. I believe money is slowly turning to be into "credits" thus making it a cashless society. (I mean, money are obviously means a credit, right? You work. You get credit for it. Therefore you get money, money = credit)

Meh, we are probably turning into a cashless society. I've seen enough movies and clips that demonstrates of a person using his fingerprint as a money amount or bank.

That'll happen for sure.

Money will cease to be our driving goal when there is something else that is even more desireable than money. Money inherently is not evil. Its the people behind the money. Money is no more than a means to purchase items, services....etc. Acquiring wealth shouldn't be a goal. Greed should not be a positive thing.

Money is a form of payment. Gold, silver and copper were all forms of wealth and payment. Beaver pelts and furs were bartered for supplies. Oil is a bartering tool. Water, in a water poor area can be a bartering tool. Your hard work is a bartering tool. Crops are a bartering tool.....there are many forms of money. They can all hoarded and controlled.

Corruption ought to be the first thing to eliminate.

Where there is "money" you will find corruption and controll.

Sloth, Greed, Pride, Envy, Lust, Wrath & Gluttony......all bad things. Even the church can't adhere tho them.