Why Don't You Belive In God???

I was raised Christian for the first 16 years of my life. I am proud to say I no longer believe in a "god."

How can a "loving and caring god," like I'm sure you believe in, allow for thousands of people to die daily from starvation and AIDS and malaria? Don't give me any crap about, "its for their own good" or whatever the hell else you think.

Wouldn't a "loving and caring god" do something about these things?

Wouldn't a "loving and caring god" WANT his children to live in peace on Earth, instead of suffer for the last six years of their mortal lives and magically be transported to a "heaven" where they float around on clouds with their boyhood heros?

My grandfather died this past year after a long and painfull battle with cancer. I watched him slowly die for six years. He was bedridden for the last four months of his life. When he died, he could hardly speak, and weighed less than 100 pounds. He went through 3 months of daily radiation treatments in 2003. Five days a week, twice a day. For three months.

This man was a veteren, a husband, a father and a brother. A veteren of the Korean War, married for I don't know how long, a loving father of two daughters and a son, and a brother with 5 siblings, and am proud to say he was my grandfather.

Why in the hell would a "loving and caring god" allow for such a thing to happen. Don't you dare tell me he brought it on himself. Don't you dare.

I have cursed your "god" nearly daily over the past year, and will say it here. There is no god.

I won't even try to say anything like that about anyone, and I am certain he was a great man.. That same thing happened to me, with my grandfather, and all my great-grandparents.. None of which died of natural causes. But I will say one thing, you have only brought up an argument against a "Loving" and "Caring" god, not the idea of a god. God could also be a being that created the world then let things happen as they may. You can curse god as much as you want, and I won't argue against it. That is your choice to do so. I would only ask that you don't tear down other's beliefs because of your grief. I have seen it happen far to often.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Kirev]

Originally posted by Kirev
I would like to ask you a similar question.. Where is your backing for what you believe? Which is apparently that there is no God?

Actually, I think that you should have gone back and read my entire post before you started bashing what I was saying. Here's my next question: Did I ever ONCE state whether I do or do not believe in any God? I just think that it's ignorant to state a position the way that they did. You cannot outright come out and say "There IS a God" If you had read my whole post you would have seen that not only was I pointing out the flaws in their original post - but I was also defending other religions that they had ruled out through their point of view. I really don't think anyone has the right to tell anyone else what to believe in or what is true, which is why the statement "there IS a God" is an incorrect statement. As I stated in my first post, that statement should say "I believe there is a God". No one on this Earth has the authority to tell anyone else whether or not there is or is not a God, who they are, or how many they are.

When you are asking why some people do not believe in god, you are probably trying to convince some to accept a belief.
Let me tell you this, the reason why I do not believe in god is exactly the same reason for why you do not believe in the gods of other faiths.

I will say only this.. I personally do not believe that anybody has it right.. Atheists, Agnostics, Theists, Deists, Polytheists... I dont think that anyone has it right. I think the most we can do is choose whichever religion appeals to us the most and stick with it. And, by definition, Atheism is indeed a religion.

reply to post by rhombus24


Its interesting you ask for proof or evidence and provide none of it yourself. You answer the questions you have been GIVEN answers for and avoid ones that use logical assertions.

Know what I believe? I believe in a soul and it is something that someday will be scientifically provable, many, many years from now. I also have a hard time this universe just "blinked" into existence without "someone/thing" giving it some help. Should I praise and worship said being? I debate myself for that answer.

But I can't provide any evidence for my belief, which is why my belief is only of relevance to me. And you provide nothing but a question, which is why threads like this turn into bashing sessions of their OP and are of no use. Not because people have a problem with what you believe, but vis versa.

I am glad for you that you have found something that fulfills you and makes you happy, I truly am, and I think people search for that all their lives. But guess what? It doesn't work for everyone, and you cannot keep asking people questions without providing some sort of answer. I think you'll find yourself talking to a wall soon enough.

I think this thread should be closed now before it gets uglier.

Aren't we coming at this the wrong way?

Shouldn't you first put the case forward that God exists. This will then provide the platform for any argument stating that he does not exist.

Do you think that, subconsciously, by making this post you are in fact seeking confirmation of your new found belief?

Im sincerely glad you have found something that makes you happy

[edit on 3/12/2007 by skibtz]

Doh - double post removed.

[edit on 3/12/2007 by skibtz]

Originally posted by Cuhail
If you live like you think God wants you to live, why do you need a church in the first place?

True spoken words Cuhail!

'You ain't gotta go to church to get to know your God.'

Something completely unknowable in its totality cannot be explained away as a divine son (sun) or one single entity. I think the closest thing that has come close is consciousness studies over the past century, and even then its not perfect...Although that's what has been admitted, that they can't find all the answers, which is unlike religions which have every answer you need eh?

Because he doesn't believe in me and that sort of blasphemy goes far beyond even MY acceptable standards.

God needs to start showing me some more love here at ATS before I decide to return the favor.

Would it really hurt you to at least U2U me every now and again? Sheesh, and I thought we was tight!


Jasn

I suspect that “God” exists for Rhombus. But this is a highly volatile subject. I doubt he expected to get blasted like this.

Personally, I think the terrestrial versions of ”God” are allegorical in nature and were designed to appeal to primitive cultures. It’s the grand joke of all time, that mankind glommed onto a literal interpretation and hung with it since the time of Christ. You’d think we could manage to evolve our religions as we evolve as cultures and as a species. Not hardly.

I can’t imagine the creator of “ALL” in human terms. I think its far more than this lonely little planet on the edge of the milky way. Modern Christianity makes its believers and adherents turn inward. And that inward turning keeps them from having to look outward and…truly…contemplate infinity.

Raf

Originally posted by Skunky
I do not believe in God / a God because there is no compelling evidence to suggest he / it exists.

If that is to brief an answer for you, try substituting 'faeries' or 'Santa Claus' for the word God.

The reverse is just as valid...

I believe in God because there is no compelling evidence to suggest God doesn't exist.

It's virtually impossible to prove a negative.

Originally posted by Steff
For some reason I've always equated, being religious with being WEAK! YOu cant fend for yourself, did your dad leave you at a young age, you never got the cheerleader. Were you molested, were people cruel to you in the sandbox?

Well, that's ironic 'cause I've always equated a lack of FAITH as a sign of weakness.

Mind you, I make a DISTINCT difference between "Religion" (especially "organized religion") and "FAITH". The former is a man-made construct and -- by definition -- is full of human errors, and human politics. The longer I live the more I understand why many "primitive" human cultures count as "One, two, three...lots". Anytime you have more than three people involved ANY endeavor you will get factions, politics, and all the nasty ick that clutters up human interactions.

Faith, on the other hand, is an intrinsically personal concept. One cannot "share" faith, nor can one explain it or prove it. It simply is. Or it is not. One cannot be "kinda faithful" just like one can't be "kinda pregnant."

I find it ... compelling that virtually EVERY human culture has SOME kind of mythology and concept of some existance beyond that of simple humanity. From geeks who believe in superheros to zealous muslims bowing daily towards Mecca, even the atheists seem to use science or logic in place of religion, there is a belief in something beyond.

Now, whether that universality equates to truth (with or without capital T) is something that everyone has to decide on their own. Hence "faith."

I pose the question again to those who believe in the conventional loving, caring, anthropormorphic God:
"Why would such a god create us and then turn around and create viruses to destroy us (and don't give me any mythology about a fall!)?"

My personal view is that what we call God is the primal consciousness that permeates and connects everything (Jung's "ground of being"). It is us that brings love into the world and not some imaginary projection of ourselves that we call God.

Originally posted by whatsup
I pose the question again to those who believe in the conventional loving, caring, anthropormorphic God:
"Why would such a god create us and then turn around and create viruses to destroy us (and don't give me any mythology about a fall!)?"

My personal view is that what we call God is the primal consciousness that permeates and connects everything (Jung's "ground of being"). It is us that brings love into the world and not some imaginary projection of ourselves that we call God.

Except that you invalidate your own thesis by stating that your view of "God" is NOT anthropomorphic. Since you do not accept such a belief-view, the possibility of anyone meeting your requirements is slim to none.

I also find it interesting that so many people immediately seem to accept that "God" (aka Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, etc., etc., etc.) is automatically "anthropomorphic." NO where in either the Old Testament nor the New does it specifically state that "God" is humanoid. Yes, I will acknowledge that there are references to "[being made] in His likeness" but I submit that this "likeness" is NOT necessarily physical, nor is this stated explicitely.

In fact, in several passages "God" appears as a) a burning bush; b) a loud voice without form; c) a rushing wind and other decidedly NON humanoid forms. If you actually accept John's psychodelic trip that is related in "Revelations" most of the images are so UN-humanoid as to be almost what some would refer to as "demonic."

Perhaps the "likeness" being referred to as "in [His] likeness" is the ESSENCE of what makes humans ... human. I.e., our inquisitiveness and ceaseless search for what makes the universe run.

may i pose a counter-question?

why don't you believe in all of these deities and spirits?

Originally posted by die_another_day
Let me tell you this, the reason why I do not believe in god is exactly the same reason for why you do not believe in the gods of other faiths.

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

Originally posted by Kirev
And, by definition, Atheism is indeed a religion.

Actually, no it's not, and I find this line of thought to be so...schoolyardish. "Well, we can't seem to prove that there is a god, so they win that battle. Hrm, let's just shift the debate to semantics and try to upend their entire argument that way"

Humans don't need religion, as much as the religious would like to think so. Religion is not some core attribute, it's an aftermarket add-on. It's not something like your eye color, something that everyone has even if it's different from person to person. Atheism is a fundamental lack of religious belief and belief in a higher power, for any number of reasons. If you're having trouble with this concept, imagine this debate except substituting "pet" with "god", like so:

"What kind of pet do you have? Do you have a dog?"
"No, I don't have a dog. I don't have a pet at all."
"How can you not have a pet? Surely you have a cat."
"No, I don't have a cat."
"A bird then? A lizard? A hamster? What kind of pet do you have?"
"I told you I don't have a pet at all"
"How can you not have a pet? That's impossible."
"I don't have one, that's just how it is."
"Well no, you do have a pet. You have a Nopet! That's what it is."
"A Nopet? A you for real?"

You see how this can be frustrating, I'd hope. And in this vein, I'd like to answer the OP's question with this: Why don't I have a pet? Because they can be loud, expensive, sometimes they bite, you can't move freely because a lot of people won't allow them in their homes, and I really don't like having my carpet defecated on.

reply to post by rhombus24


i believe in G-D and i try to obey G-D but i do not believe in or obey the catholic god-or for that matter the muslim god with their friday sabbath----or the rabbinic god that they believe gives them the authority to come up with their own rules more important to them than what moses told them to do-------you keep sunday/xmas/easter/valentines/new years/halloween/lent/trinity------------and i keep G-Ds holydays found in leviticus 23------------tell me where do you find the authority to keep your festivities in the scriptures?where do you find the trinity in the scriptures?they are not there and to follow a man that says he has authority to change G-Ds holydays-----------you must believe that that man is a god---------------the 1st commandment is----you shall have no other gods before Me

People, suppose I do want to get saved, can I just declare myself as a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, and Hiduist at the same time before I die? Just in case 1 does work

reply to post by rhombus24


There is definately a higr being of some sort. But an actual god... no don't think so.

That is just a title we primitive little people gave it.

Religion is a farce. Not just cristianity, but all religions.

If a benoviolent Supreme being dose exist, I am sure it wouldn't want mankind wasting ll it's time down on our knees asking for this & asking for that.

We should do things for our selves & stop wasting time with stupid Worship.

A true God would not like to be Worshiped & those that tell us worship is the way to enlightment are simply lying.

The Churches of this world are just dead space & all humans should just get along, believe n what they will & stop the usless worshiping. dthefihingt omsfrte difrnwwa f wohiig.

Get on with things that really matter & become all we can become, which at this time is hindered by stupid religions made up by greedy people for their own gains & control over the peole.

C'mon, the Chrisian church & the Vatican are one of the ritchest & most powerful organisations on the planet, because idiots believe in the crap they spin.

Yes there is a higher being, but it isn't what the churches say it is.

My God is the Universe its self. We all live within it, it gives us life & through our existance, we in turn give it life. And in the end, we are returned to it to continue the cycle of life.

How could this not be a devine thing...?