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posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 12:55 PM
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Affirmative Reaction

Not to continue the flame war you're so fond of starting with anyone whose opinion is opposite yours, but you're just another prime example of a Right Winger with a little bit of propaganda couched as knowledge swearing to all that will listen that you have gospel.

You want to start that pardon crap, to flip your phrase? A financier versus folks like Abrams, Poindexter, Otto Reich - all now put back in our government by the Bush crime family - who were felons and by their actions, endangered or lost American military and led to the deaths of countless South Americans. Bush was so complicit, he had to PARDON HIMSELF! That fact not getting a blip on your radar is more proof of partisanship over critical thought, at the very least.

Bush went AWOL, period. That he comes from one of the most powerful American families and the connection to the government are rock solid is lost on you; Kennedys & Bushs can kill people, go AWOL, go DUI, and get away with it if you haven't noticed. If he was 'equal' as you profess, he would have been in South East Asia with the rest of the unconnected youth. That he did not release his military records during the 2000 campaign, and that the Boston Globe -Washington Post -NY Times and almost every other major US paper said so, as well as a US Congressional member from his OWN FREAKIN' STATE made a formal complaint on his desertion to the Dept. of Defense, is evidently also lost on you.
No, the site I listed brings something that should make you fearful right to your closed eyes: that the GOP idiots screaming to launch perpetual war are the same ones who did everything humanly possible to avoid one when they were called. Gore getting shot at in the war:nice medal they gave Gore, huh? Where's the one for Georgy Boy?
(**hold on to that check son, that New England Blue Blood spoiled Child of Privilege ain't kicking any NY'ers azz, especially mine! Though if I got to chase him, I can't do back to back 6.5 minute miles.....the boy can run!)

I agree 100% that the whole Monica thing brought shame to our country. To have Bob Barr & Ken Starr bring ALL the sordid details out to the court of public opinion to defame a sitting president, spending $70M of our taxpayers money to prove a man got caught in an affair & lied about it, is truly a great shame. I totally agree Clinton was stupid for doing it, but a bit of common sense to realize that Reagan had affairs ( people forget Nancy was his mistress on his first wife), and most US presidents have had something on the side....I just feel that is far from important in the grand scheme of things to any one but his spouse...she's the only judge/jury/executioner that he had to answer to.

My info? That was a direct quote from CNN online in an article written by Bill Press ( I'm not at my other computer where I have it saved; just go to the search feature, it'll come up)

Jingoism, after all, is just misguided patriotism, and I definitely don't question you have that.
That you've been in a very segmented portion of society for 20 years should also give you a heads up that you have not 'been there, done that' on a wealth of experiences & topics.
You'll get thanks from me for serving our nation....but it's not carte blanc or anything that I haven't done ( 2 years) as well as most of the other posters here, not counting the youngsters, the board is probably 90% military veteran since most other nations have a mandatory service standard ( which I think the US should adopt, but that's another post and we've gone way off topic as it is!) and I've talked with the other Rabid Right Wingers about where they served.
Start a thread on any of the above, I'll respond there & leave this to the topic.


Air 101 : Medic Alert button, 'ighlight for Kids'.....man, that's some great stuff!

Keep up the great quotes!

Side note:
Falcon & Air101 - what's the scoop down a Ft. Bragg? About the murders and all?




posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 12:55 PM
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posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 01:02 PM
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"1) So, you think that I'm nothing ?"

Did I say you're nothing??? I didn't even mention the word "nothing". "Nothing" and "anything" are two different words.

2) Yeah, Einstein.The guy who gave us the A-bomb, and after, was crying on his mistake.

His theories led us to the A-Bomb. He didn't give us the A-Bomb



"4) Im' not surprised.

These 2 assholes are the guys who told us that Adolf Hitler was not a warlord and didn't have any bad intentions, and that we didn't have to take any military actions against him. They were thinking that the war was impossible and Hitler was a peaceman ! Normaly, you know the rest of the story...."

And how are they similar to me???

"EXACTELY, YOU RIGHT AND I AGREE WITH YOU ! They hates us and they want to kill us. But that's EXACTELY why I don't like them. Don't tell me that you like/love your ennemy, I'll not believe you."

You don't see it, do you??? What you quoted from me there is exactly how YOU act on this forum.

And let me ask you a question. You say you believe in God... Would God hate your enemies?? People that he himself created???

"We were living in peace, we were cool and....BAM !!! ""

OH PLEASE!!! When have we EVER really lived in peace for the last two, three, four thousand years!!!

"Take this in your tooth., fuc*% Westerners ". Hey , wake up man ! I wonder in wich world you are living."

Yeah, the westerners have never done anything wrong. We are totally 100% innocent. They naturally hate us for no reason whatsoever. There is no cause for their hate. They're evil. They're demons. They're the devil. We are good.

Now, U-P, who has to wake up???



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
To have Bob Barr & Ken Starr bring ALL the sordid details out to the court of public opinion to defame a sitting president, spending $70M of our taxpayers money to prove a man got caught in an affair & lied about it, is truly a great shame.


When it help your country to remove a bad president, it's not a shame. It's a shame ONLY when you have a good president.And Clinton wasn't a good one.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Airborne 101
mad scientist...I am glad to see that you can rebute an argument with solid, intelligent, hypothosies. Grow up!



Dude...I wouldn't be so friggin self righteous if I were you, because this is what you said just a few posts ago...



***"We need someone in the white house whose forgien policy experience is broader than Higlights For Kids "***

Not what I'd call "an argument with solid, intelligent, hypothosies"...

Or is this a "Do as I say, not as I do" kinda thing???



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by Bout Time
To have Bob Barr & Ken Starr bring ALL the sordid details out to the court of public opinion to defame a sitting president, spending $70M of our taxpayers money to prove a man got caught in an affair & lied about it, is truly a great shame.


When it help your country to remove a bad president, it's not a shame. It's a shame ONLY when you have a good president.And Clinton wasn't a good one.


Tu et dans la lune!

***Pssst, he finished his term, no one removed anybody...pass it on****



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 01:56 PM
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The truth is when it comes to politics you either love Clinton or you hate him. You either think Geroge W. is doing a good job.....or you are awake. I can't believe all of this talk about Clinton. Does anyone really believe that because of his involvment in the Lewinsky sex scandal the country is any worse off? Yet, lets take a look at dubbya's performance. Since he has been in office the economey has tanked....people are out of work....our allies are all questioning their ties with the us....enviromental cleanup has been set back fifteen years.....september 11, 2001 (am I the only one who thinks that it is odd that the invesitgation into this took so long and was stalled by the white house?).....we are on the verge of another vietnamn in Iraq.....business are failing.....Enron, Worldcomm, Martha Stewart, Dick Cheney investigation cover ups....North Korea, Iran nuclear weapons facilities.....billions wasted in failed missle defense.... MY GOD!!! How much more can go wrong before the american people finally wake up to the fact that Bush and his lackeys are killing this country. The only one in that cabinet with half a Brian is Collin Powell, and we all know that he got the shut up or get out speech for initially opposing war in Iraq!

PLEASE, someone prove to me that I am wrong, because from where I sit I am seeing a pretty scary picture for our future.



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 02:00 PM
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Dude, I can repeat what I have said over and over like you did, and it wouldn't make me right, just like it doesn't make you right. Come up with some solid evidence, because "Bush went AWOL, period" is just you piling more bullship on top of bullship. You show no proof, no evidence, nothing but your word, and that's worth about as much as the rest of your posts.

This isn't a flame war, as you put it, it's just people trashing your lies, becaus that's all you post; unsubstantiated lies, smoke and mirrors. I didn't think it was possible, but you have actualy taken over from Loopy as the most laughed at poster on the board. Your claims are just that ridiculous. If you want people to stop flaming you, stop posting the junk and post some verifiable facts. Or, in lieu of that, just post them as your opinions. No one can say your opinions are wrong or right...they are just your opinions...and you know what they say about opinions, right???



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Airborne 101
The truth is when it comes to politics you either love Clinton or you hate him. You either think Geroge W. is doing a good job.....or you are awake. I can't believe all of this talk about Clinton. Does anyone really believe that because of his involvment in the Lewinsky sex scandal the country is any worse off? Yet, lets take a look at dubbya's performance. Since he has been in office the economey has tanked....people are out of work....our allies are all questioning their ties with the us....enviromental cleanup has been set back fifteen years.....september 11, 2001 (am I the only one who thinks that it is odd that the invesitgation into this took so long and was stalled by the white house?).....we are on the verge of another vietnamn in Iraq.....business are failing.....Enron, Worldcomm, Martha Stewart, Dick Cheney investigation cover ups....North Korea, Iran nuclear weapons facilities.....billions wasted in failed missle defense.... MY GOD!!! How much more can go wrong before the american people finally wake up to the fact that Bush and his lackeys are killing this country. The only one in that cabinet with half a Brian is Collin Powell, and we all know that he got the shut up or get out speech for initially opposing war in Iraq!

PLEASE, someone prove to me that I am wrong, because from where I sit I am seeing a pretty scary picture for our future.



Whoa, whoa, whoa, AirborneÖreign in that horseÖ

The economy has tanked? 5.2 percent growth in the last quarter is tanking? Dude, you have some wild ideas about poor economies. the day after Thanksgiving was Wally Worlds biggest day EVER. Thatís not the sign of an economy in the tank. Besides, the first year, and sometimes longer, of any presidency is unaffected by the sitting prez, as the policies of the previous one are still effecting things. And if you are talking about the drop in the previously over inflated stock market, it was bound to have an adjustment downword, and 9/11 just sped it up a little.

Yep, people are out of workÖalways are, always will beÖnot GWBís fault. Can you say terrorists? This event has had a huge impact on our country, but we will recover, as we are doing right now under the leadership of GWB.

Our allies are still our allies, and even Saudi Arabia, whom I wouldnít trust as far as I can throw Bout Timeís big head, has even given us permission to da what ever we need to do should it come to war with Iraq. Others in the region are thrilled to have us. Qatar comes to mindÖany idea whatís going on there????

Investigation? Stalled by the white house? Proof, pleaseÖsimple investigation to meÖterrorist azzhole flies plane into building, people die, end of story.

There will never be ìanother Vietnamî. The military learned itís lesson, and congressmen will not be choosing targets any more. Didnít you learn anything from Desert Storm? Overwhelming force, short warÖthree days, and it was all overÖthree daysÖwow ..even boggles my mind, and I was thereÖ

Enron, Worldcomm, Martha StewartÖnow youíre blaming criminal actions by corporations and individuals on GWB? DudeÖget a life. And hÖby the way, there never was a cover up, thatís why the frivolous suit against Cheney was dropped.


Billions wasted in failed missile defense. HmmmÖdid that just start when GWB took office? No, it was there the whole time Billary was in office, and he never stopped it, because it makes good sense to protect ourselves. One thing he did right.

Shut up or get out speech, huh? And you know this is a fact, how? Oh, goodie, another psychic on the board.

MY GOD! How much more doo doo can you post before you see the light of day???


Finally, you said:
***î PLEASE, someone prove to me that I am wrong, because from where I sit I am seeing a pretty scary picture for our future.î***

Why donít you prove that you are rightÖ



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 05:46 PM
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Stop drinking before you post A-R, it's really starting to get sloppy.
Now we are to assume you have some economic credential as well?
"everyone knows" has been disallowed since the message board kicked out all the grammar school kids, don't use it, its weak.
The knee jerk reaction to deflect everything going wrong is from what, denial or stupidity? Neither one is going to save you from getting ripped on your crappy assesment of the US economic situation.
Even making the stretch to say that this is all still carry over from Clinton ( Which it's not; $160 billion surplus says so) , where are his policies to STOP the erosion? You going to try and quote me a tax cut for the wealthiest 2%?
5.2% growth in the last quarter!?!? Not only false, but not even the real number.
People who could previously afford shopping at Macy's, JC Penny or J.Crew now being forced to shop at Walmart is the sign of a strong economy to you!?!
We're on track to lose over 38,000 jobs in the US for the fourth consecutive month. Our labor Secretary Chao said we were going to GAIN 38,000 last month.......meaning our administration was off by 78,000!!! Talented folks we got there.
1.3 million American slipped below the poverty line last year, giving us close to 12% of All American in poverty.
2.3 million American have lost their jobs under Bush as well. Nearly 1 million will lose unemployment benefits 3 days before Christmas with 95,000 each week afterward, and he did not sign the bill to extend unemployment benefits.
His leadership to respond to this?
Fire O'Neil from Alcoa, big campaign contributor from back in his Texas days, and Lindsay, former Enron man.
THEN
He hires Snow, from CSX..a person whose company made over $1 Billion in the last 2 years but DID NOT PAY ANY TAXES!!! Wow, I didn't make nearly that and I payed over $40K!
Then the guy from DLJ brokerage.......so, another guy from the fat cat fold sent to wrangle ....the fat cats!?!?!

Read this for part of your education
xmb.abovetopsecret.com...

Bush AWOL: Boston Globe
www.boston.com...

Dude, how did you know I have a huge head? I mean it's in proportion, but it's pretty damn big!

I always had a custom order football helmet!

Airborne: don't sweat the Radical right Wing, you're on target!



posted on Dec, 13 2002 @ 10:11 PM
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It should be obvious the shortcomings of Clinton's policies. It's just hard to keep on repeating the facts. No matter how many facts are put up, there are those who still refuse to open their eyes.

Just briefly it was Clinton's weak polocy which allowed Al-Qaeda to gain the strength they have. Bush cannot be blamed for 8 years of neglect by Clinton. As well, how stupid can he be. exporting supercomputers to China. This even after the first one exported was taken directly to their nuclear weapons facility. So instead of cancelling future technology transfers, he keeps them going. Talk about incredibly stupid.

Clinton's vanity to leave an enduring legacy no matter what has caused this. Come to think of it, what he has done should be classed as treason. I could think of nothing better than to have Clinton lined up against a wall and shot.



posted on Dec, 14 2002 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Bout Time

1) Tu et dans la lune!


2)***Pssst, he finished his term, no one removed anybody...pass it on****


1) Well done, but it's not " et ", it's " est ".

Anyway, it wasn't the point.


2) I didn't write that he didn't finish his term. We know all that he finished his president term. I just tryed to pint that Starr helped us to see who was BC. But we can't have the same POV. You are ( or you are loking ), a BC fan, and I'm not one. I don't like BC and his wife to.



posted on Dec, 14 2002 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by mad scientist
It should be obvious the shortcomings of Clinton's policies. It's just hard to keep on repeating the facts. No matter how many facts are put up, there are those who still refuse to open their eyes.

Just briefly it was Clinton's weak polocy which allowed Al-Qaeda to gain the strength they have. Bush cannot be blamed for 8 years of neglect by Clinton. As well, how stupid can he be. exporting supercomputers to China. This even after the first one exported was taken directly to their nuclear weapons facility. So instead of cancelling future technology transfers, he keeps them going. Talk about incredibly stupid.

Clinton's vanity to leave an enduring legacy no matter what has caused this. Come to think of it, what he has done should be classed as treason. I could think of nothing better than to have Clinton lined up against a wall and shot.


Mad Scientist: Let me ask the obvious, are you an American living abroad or did you live in the US over the past 10 years? If the latter is true or you just never lived in the US, you are without merit in discussing US domestic policy and especially advocating the shooting of one of our ex-presidents. Even if you're studying American History in Oz, you're still off base.
The discussion starts and stops with the fact that the incoming Bush administration immediately stopped all investigations into anything Saudi, recalled equipment and personnel from the region, stopped all FISA warrants, ignored congressional studies for increased airline security (such as reinforced locked cockpit doors) and generally took an 'Anti-Clinton' approach to everything that was turned over by the out going administration. Our Dept. of Justice under Ashcroft listed their priorities at the same time as budget...terrorism was not in the top 10, but the evangelical minister sure did have his dept. focused on breaking prostitution rings in New Orleans.
The supposition that Al Qeda should have been taken out eight years ago is also without legs. Actions of hunting down and killing, if necessary, foreign nationals outside of your own state are politically improbable if not impossible without some domestic loss to seek retribution for first. We did not have that. They did actively partner with those whose domestic front sustained attack, providing resources after the common goal.
Vanity? Name me a head of state without it, especially US presidents. The vanity of the Bush team to think their interpretation of world & domestics facts was so superior to Clintons that they immediately scrapped or reversed all his policies, which lead us to be attacked, into a deep recession when there was still a possibility to avert it and much less safe anywhere in the world Americans frequent.
Clinton sure is a vain S.O.B., but it wasn't on his watch or by hi negligence that America was attacked, look no further than Bush.
As for technology, multi national corporations are the source of a technology espionage. But you don't even have to go as James Bond dramatic as to call it espionage; they freely sell computing powerful enough out in the open. Hell, while Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, they tallied over $70 million in sales to Iraq alone during the course of his tenure.
You want Stupid Bordering on Freakin' Retarded...again look no further than Bush:
Pease explain to me how in one breath a country is an Axis of Evil member, and in the next the Bush gives them $95M for NUCLEAR REACTORS WHILE WAVING THE INSPECTION CLAUSE!?!?!?!? Yup, Bush calls North Korea an Evil axis member and THEN gives them a ton of money to go play with nukes.

"In releasing the funding, President George W Bush waived the Framework`s requirement that North Korea allow inspectors to ensure it has not hidden away any weapons-grade plutonium from the original reactors.
President Bush argued that the decision was "vital to the national security interests of the United States". (WHAT THE ?!?!)

news.bbc.co.uk...

You or any other Bush apologist.....please explain that one to me.



posted on Dec, 15 2002 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795

1) Did I say you're nothing??? I didn't even mention the word "nothing". "Nothing" and "anything" are two different words.

2) Yeah, Einstein.The guy who gave us the A-bomb, and after, was crying on his mistake.

His theories led us to the A-Bomb. He didn't give us the A-Bomb



3) And how are they similar to me???

4) You don't see it, do you??? What you quoted from me there is exactly how YOU act on this forum.

5) And let me ask you a question. You say you believe in God... Would God hate your enemies?? People that he himself created???


6) Now, U-P, who has to wake up???


1) I wasn't speaking about what you write, but about what you try to insinuate.


2) Oh yeah ? Without Eisnstein, no A-bomb. You don't know it, but Einstein asked to the US President to do not use the bomb.


3) You are similar to them cuz you are blind and you don't see that we have to pretect ourselves against our ennemies. You think that we can speak with them.You think that we can do peace without war. It's possible ONLY when your ennemy is like you and share almost the same values.

4) What don't you like in my acting way ? I'm not a gentle and blind peace dove, that's it ?

5) God don't hate. He love everybody, even Satan is loving by God. But you see, I'm not God, and you are not God. We are just humans, evenu you.
So, we sometimes, we can hate.


6) It's still you, why ?



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 12:27 AM
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Hey, everybody, we need to stop picking on Bout Time. Remember, he's right, we're wrong...you know why? Because he said so. Just look at what he posts for proof...links to his own posts. Now, if that's not good proof, I don't know what is.

It tends to get boring when you try to have a meaningful debate with someone who has to belittle you because they have a lack of knowledge and nothing to back thier bull# up with except "your wrong". Talk about schoolyard antics. You'd get a much more intellegent response from a sack of potatoes.

Dood, you ought to look at your posts before you actually hit that "post" button. Wow, talk about saying a lot without actually saying anything at all...

Oh, and 5.2% growth? GAO, buddy...go look it up. And while yer at it, look up "single lever pulling liberal". Look it up in your dictionary. Your picture is next to it...



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by Bout Time

Mad Scientist: Let me ask the obvious, are you an American living abroad or did you live in the US over the past 10 years? If the latter is true or you just never lived in the US, you are without merit in discussing US domestic policy and especially advocating the shooting of one of our ex-presidents. Even if you're studying American History in Oz, you're still off base.




I hold duel citizenship in both the US and Australia. Spending maybe 7-8months in Australia and 4-5 months in the US a year. I am in St Louis now.



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795

1) Did I say you're nothing??? I didn't even mention the word "nothing". "Nothing" and "anything" are two different words.

2) Yeah, Einstein.The guy who gave us the A-bomb, and after, was crying on his mistake.

His theories led us to the A-Bomb. He didn't give us the A-Bomb



3) And how are they similar to me???

4) You don't see it, do you??? What you quoted from me there is exactly how YOU act on this forum.

5) And let me ask you a question. You say you believe in God... Would God hate your enemies?? People that he himself created???


6) Now, U-P, who has to wake up???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"1) I wasn't speaking about what you write, but about what you try to insinuate."

Again... You assume too much. I meant, "anything else"


"2) Oh yeah ? Without Eisnstein, no A-bomb. You don't know it, but Einstein asked to the US President to do not use the bomb."

I damn well know, without Einstein, no A-Bomb and I know Einstein sent a letter to the US prez...
www.trumanlibrary.org...

But there are also speculations that dropping an A-bomb
wasn't necessary either and that the Japanese military was already close to surrendering. And that it was used with other intentions in mind than forcing Japan to surrender.

danandmary.com...

"3) You are similar to them cuz you are blind and you don't see that we have to pretect ourselves against our ennemies. You think that we can speak with them.You think that we can do peace without war. It's possible ONLY when your ennemy is like you and share almost the same values."

Enemies are created. (and that's mainly by violating the golden rule). So having enemies is not natural.

"4) What don't you like in my acting way ? I'm not a gentle and blind peace dove, that's it ?"

Again, you assume to much. I wouldn't care less about how you act. That's up to you. I was just explaining to you that by your posts you remind people of the way "your enemies" act.

5) God don't hate. He love everybody, even Satan is loving by God. But you see, I'm not God, and you are not God. We are just humans, evenu you. So, we sometimes, we can hate.

Look... If you've seen my earlier post. You'll see that I think we are all one with God. Which coincides with the holographic theory (which is the most accurate description of our universe IMO). Which means, we are one with our enemies. Which means hate is unnecesary and unnatural.

6) It's still you, why ?

TSssssssss...



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
Hey, everybody, we need to stop picking on Bout Time. Remember, he's right, we're wrong...you know why? Because he said so. Just look at what he posts for proof...links to his own posts. Now, if that's not good proof, I don't know what is.

It tends to get boring when you try to have a meaningful debate with someone who has to belittle you because they have a lack of knowledge and nothing to back thier bull# up with except "your wrong". Talk about schoolyard antics. You'd get a much more intellegent response from a sack of potatoes.

Dood, you ought to look at your posts before you actually hit that "post" button. Wow, talk about saying a lot without actually saying anything at all...

Oh, and 5.2% growth? GAO, buddy...go look it up. And while yer at it, look up "single lever pulling liberal". Look it up in your dictionary. Your picture is next to it...


Affirmed Reactionary

Thanks for the concern, but nobody picks on me; you seem to be the only half wit that takes issues of debate as points to launch visceral arguments that go off into flame wars. A couple assumptions you should make so your time here is more enjoyable:
1) It's assumed folks are well read on a breath of subjects & current events - so when they see stats, they harken back to where they read it previously or saw mention of it.
2) If they question something, they look it up independently so they can make a reasoned response.
3) A poster is taken at their only true measure of worth...their posts. So if I or any other regular poster lists a topic that they've shown some expertise in, it's assumed noteworthy. Does that mean carte blanc? Hell no! People will rip & roar if something is out of line, as they should.
4) Fairy tales get picked apart right quick - inflating stats to make your argument is a very weak ploy, as is posting the Right Wing Internet hoax of the day
5) I put up a Political Compass thread - 'Liberal' is only a dirty word to reactionary demagogues; lot's of shades of gray in the real world. If you read what's posted, I'm far from a 'welfare loving Liberal'.

The General Accounting Office serves the purpose of Auditor to the Federal government. What you should have said is growth as posted in the third quarter as release by the Commerce Department. The other falsehood of yours I noted was a 5.2% growth. That's wrong because it's an exaggeration; we had a growth in our Gross Domestic Product of 3.1%, the GDP is our country's total output.
As I noted by virtue of the link to the other thread, it's only something to be happy about if you're a Bush Apologist, as you evidently are. It was an abysmal 1.3 % for the second quarter. "Well, it doubled, that's good!"...no, it's not. Wall St. was looking for 3.6%. Since that wasn't hit, those corporate money managers & CFO's didn't let loose on Capital Expenditures ( buying new raw material for production, purchasing services, increasing inventory), so new business wasn't done. The GDP number, as per Forbes, was due to almost exclusively gains in new car sales and government spending ( defense contactors are cleaning up...that's why I suggested you should retire and go work for one)
We have exactly 11.7% of Americans living below the poverty line. Again, not good. A quarter year with successive months of near 40,000 job loss, not good.
We don't have Bush changing his supply side economic philosophy, just hiring guys who can sell it better. Alan Greespan can't do anymore: cutting short-term interest rates 12 times in two years ó to 1.25 percent now, their lowest level in four decades ó the Federal Reserve is almost out of obvious ways to stimulate the economy. The federal budget, which had a surplus of more than $200 billion in 2000, may have a deficit at least that large next year. In the short run, the increase in government spending has propped up the economy, but over time big government deficits drive up interest rates and crowd out private investment.
I suggest Forbes online and the NY Times online, both free and both far less apt to prop up failed economic policy than most.
On third quarter growth: www.forbes.com...



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 03:37 PM
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Affirmative Reaction

Ok, here is the proof, since you obviously don't watch the news

"The economy has tanked? 5.2 percent growth in the last quarter is tanking?"
Ever heard of a thing called the stock market? Well, it is about to end its third consecutive year in decline. Oh, and according to recent reports the economy has slipped even
further:
www.forbes.com...

We will be lucky to avoid a double dip recession.

Unemployment is at 6%! That is the highest that it has been since last April. Indications are that last week the US economy lost 83,000 jobs!
www.bls.gov...

"Besides, the first year, and sometimes longer, of any presidency is unaffected by the sitting prez, as the policies of the previous one are still effecting things."
Maybe, but indecision 2000 and Bush depletion of the surplus with one fell swoop with his tax cut didn't exactly have a positive effect on the economy.

"Enron, Worldcomm, Martha StewartÖnow youíre blaming criminal actions by corporations and individuals on GWB?"
He certainly has participated in his own shady dealings, not to mention that Bush has done nothing to put real pressure of big business other than to say that he wants to see "CEO's in handcuffs."

"Our allies are still our allies, and even Saudi Arabia, whom I wouldnít trust as far as I can throw Bout Timeís big head, has even given us permission to da what ever we need to do should it come to war with Iraq. Others in the region are thrilled to have us. Qatar comes to mindÖany idea whatís going on there????"

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!! If you really think that the US is welcome in the Middle East, then I have a bridge in Brooklin...real cheap! Our best friend in the region, TURKEY, isn't sure if it want's the US there. Saudia Arabia is financing terrorists, Iran, Iraq's sworn enemy hates us even more, Egypts, Jordan, and Syria are all experiencing an increase in anti American sentiments. Even France and Germany are starting to bad mouth the US. In fact, the German Prime Minister was elected on a anti-US banner!!!!

"Investigation? Stalled by the white house? Proof, pleaseÖsimple investigation to meÖterrorist azzhole flies plane into building, people die, end of story."

There is a clear link between Dubbya's inattention to the Clinton administrations intelligence and 9/11.
www.mikehersh.com...
"There will Never be another Vietnam"
I wish that was true. Unfortunately, you are not correct. An invasion of Iraq will turn into a unpopular war in which our troops will be forced to face protesters, hatred, anti war demonstrations and the like.

"Shut up or get out speech, huh? And you know this is a fact, how? Oh, goodie, another psychic on the board."

Hmm, that's funny, I seem to remember Collin Powell being against war, now he is for it. You are right....he must have come to his senses once he realized how stupid he was being for thinking war was a bad thing.

"Billions wasted in failed missile defense. HmmmÖdid that just start when GWB took office?"

No, it started when Ronald Reagan came to office, but Bush continues to allow it to jeopardize our relationships with our allies. But don't worry, once we have it we will give this technology that we are spending BILLIONS on to our allies....FOR FREE!!!

I do not mean to be rude Sir, but your responses are the typical Republican responses. You give no thought to your arguments other than to spout party politics. I would ask that you think about these issues, do a bit more research, and then reevaluate your sentiments.



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 04:26 PM
link   
Lets see Ö where to begin.

BT, Donít presume to assume for me. You know what they say, when you assume, you make an azz out of you andÖwell, you. No one here assumes anybody else knows anything about anything. If they did, there would never be any arguments. Reasoned response? Come onÖIíll just ignore that stupid remark. As far as the word ìliberalî, if the foo shiitsÖyou should really take some of your own advice. Read back your post to yourself and pretend itís coming from one of the myriad of people that routinely rip you a new one, and youíll see just how hypocritical you really are. And oh, I'll point out another hypocracy...let's see, did you just call me a "half wit"? Hmmm...I guess your name calling continues. I was going to point it out sooner, but hey, sticks and stones...

Both AB and 101: Numbers are numbers, just depends where you get them from. Show me a number, and Iíll show you 20 other reports that discredit it. www.bls.gov... for exampleÖGDP being only one indicator of economic growth, hereís another place to look www.bea.doc.gov... We could go at this all day longÖ Bottom line is, we are in a recovery period after a lull due to a terrorist act that dissuaded investors for a time. Now they are coming back, and things are looking up. And there are those that believe we should be running in deficit mode for a while to bolster the economy. any ideas on that? Iíll bet Öand oh, by the way, the Bush tax cut did NOT wipe out the ìsurplus in one fell swoopî. Great Gatsby, where did you come up with THAT piece of Democrat rhetoric? Get a new lineÖ

101..Wether you choose to believe it or not, our allies are still our allies. While I agree that I would choose another ìfriendî before Saudi Arabia, as they are treacherous, at best, they have still agreed to allow use of the bases there for any operations against Iraq. And just in that region, Quatar, Bahrain, and Oman remain steadfast supporters of the United States.

Hereís a really funny oneÖ

***î"Billions wasted in failed missile defense. HmmmÖdid that just start when GWB took office?"

No, it started when Ronald Reagan came to office, but Bush continues to allow it to jeopardize our relationships with our allies. But don't worry, once we have it we will give this technology that we are spending BILLIONS on to our allies....FOR FREE!!!îî***

So, I guess we went right from Bush to Bush, eh? Nobody in between? Get real. Revisionist at best to place all the blame on Republicans when Billary was in the White House for 8 long years. The fact that he did nothing to change the scope of the operations should tell you that it was the right thing to do. Think about it. If you have a defense system that makes ICBMís obsolete, then Ö figure it out if you can. And oh, by the way, we havenít ìgivenî anything away to anyone, and I doubt we will. Sell, maybe. The US Army runs all Patriot missile batteries.

And 101, Iíll quote your hypocritical last little dig, because it fitsÖone word edited, of courseÖ





***I do not mean to be rude Sir, but your responses are the typical DEMOCRAT responses. You give no thought to your arguments other than to spout party politics. I would ask that you think about these issues, do a bit more research, and then reevaluate your sentiments.***





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