BREAKING NEWS: Scuds found on North Korean ship

I must agree that there is no legal basis for anyone to have boarded and seized this ship. Seeing as how N. Korea is not part of the missile proliferation agreements (nor is Yemen). It's obvious that the US knew what was on the ship before it even set sail so, one has to wonder what the point of seizing the vessel was.
Yemen is "supposedly" siding with the west in the "war against terror". So, why seize weapons that it may legitimately need for national defence (not a very stable neighborhood) when there is no international law prohibiting such? I think this may be stepping a little too far.

On a side note...
Does anyone know what all the Nitric acid is for? Is it a fuel ingredient for the missiles? I'm not up on my WWII missile technology

Byrd,

Scuds can be modified for longer range.

MM,

Look at this map. This is to back up what JB said. www.war-times.org...



[Edited on 11-12-2002 by TigeriS]

I've been having a hunt through International Maritime Law.It's a hard slog.

The best I can say is that the vessel in question would have been under the jurisdiction of the flag it was carrying while in international waters.

AR,I don't want to go of thread but the US gov describes the prisoners in Cuba not as POW's but as Unlawful Combatants this term has no meaning in international law.Because of this terminology the prisoners have no rights under the Geneva Convention.They may well be treated in accordance with the convention(though recently released photo would disprove this)but they have no rights under it.You may think this is just nitpicking but it is a very important distinction.

thanks JB, i was going to correct AR on that one too.

as for Fry2's question, perhaps all that nitric acid is for food production.

- qo.

The ship was not flying a flag,it is considered a "pirate ship". They did find a Cambodian flag on board.If it was a legitamte weapons deal,why was the name of the vessel painted over,and the missles hidden under a lot cement?I think there is more to this than we know.It is going to interesting getting all the views NK,Yeman,U.S. and compare notes.

TigeriS, I see what you man, but I was specifically speaking of the bases we got in Saudi Arabia and Oman. Scuds in Yemen could easily reach them.

and initially I thought I heard on the radio Yemen denied the scuds were theirs. Very suspicious indeed - especially w/ the flag and ship name (for whatever reason it brings to mind when the US Navy ship flew a Taiwan flag into a Chinese port - ooops).

all the suspicious activity make me wonder -why go through all the trouble?

Heck � why buy crappy scuds from N. Korea? - I am sure the US would have sold them the good stuff!

From what we are being told you are right about the flag yet I think you are wrong that this makes it a "pirate" ship.I've not seen anything in the British media about the name.The consignment was listed as weapons and I don't think that cement has anything to do with it.The Yemeni gov have called both the US and Spanish Ambassadors in to protests according to SABA the Yemeni News agency they were both told that this incident would do nothing to improve bi-lateral relations(That is Diplo-Speak for you've really pissed us off)
It appears that the US have already agreed to hand the missiles over.I expect if this happenned too quickly the US would lose face so expect it in a day or two when another bigger news story comes out.
As for the "Unknown Chemicals"it is probably fuel but by the time that imformation is released John Doe will be distracted by yet another exagerated story and so he will be left with the impression that North Korea is exporting Chemical weapons to terrorists in the middle east ultimately threatening the "good ol' " American way of life.Sorry everyone just a bit cynical today.

JB, you are correct, I mispoke myself. However, the unlawful combantant status does not negate the Geneva conventions, and the Camp Delta prisoners are being afforded every protection. The defination of a lawful combantant is one who fights for a country or territory while wearing the uniforn of that entity. The detainees are considered unlawful because they wear no uniform, simply the dress of the local populace, yet still engage in combat. This, by international law, is deemed an "unlawful ruse." Therefore, they are "unlawful combatants".

As for the scuds, the Scud D, of which these are, have a range of over 850 nautical miles. The US has agreed to insure the delivery to Yemen. The Spaniards were just doing their duty to insure that the scuds were not bound for terrorist hands on an un-flagged vessle who's crew was lying about their identy and cargo, while the ships registry numbers and name had been painted out. Good on them for making the right call, good on the US for getting the cargo where it needs to go.

QO, Nitric acid is used primarily in the fertilizer and explosives industrys. Here is a good link to an excellent discription of it's uses.


web1.caryacademy.org...

Just today JB? j/k

I think they had ample cause to inspect the ship but Yemen should get their scuds back.

Originally posted by Bob88
Just today JB? j/k

I think they had ample cause to inspect the ship but Yemen should get their scuds back.

Agree 100%, Bob, and they will...Ari Fleicher just said so from the White House live on the news...

More BREAKING NEWS: U.S. to release Scud ship to Yemen

Dec. 11 � The United States has agreed to release a North Korean ship that carried Scud-type missiles destined to Yemen, a senior U.S. administration official said Wednesday. Yemen had protested the high-seas seizure by Spanish and U.S. forces and demanded the release of the cargo, which it said was intended for the country�s military....

www.msnbc.com...

www.msnbc.com...

I just wanted to show everyone what was left of that news report once I had cut away the face saving pleasentries.

Incidently,I have found no mention of Nitric Acid anywhere Here on CNN,BBC,or C4 or the Times online.If someone could supply a link I'd be happy.

PS.I have only cut not added apart from something in brackets.

www.msnbc.com...

Dec. 11 � The United States has decided to release a North Korean ship that carried Scud-type missiles destined for Yemen, a senior U.S. administration official said Wednesday. Yemen had protested the high-seas seizure by Spanish and U.S. forces and demanded the release of the cargo, which it said was intended for the country�s military

THE DECISION followed high-level communication between the United States and Yemen,
According to the official Yemeni news agency, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell told Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh by telephone that the crew had returned to the ship and that the weapons cargo was headed to his country.
Also, Vice President Dick Cheney told Saleh the United States had agreed to release the vessel because its cargo was Legal, the SABA news agency said.
However, the incident has strained relations between the two nations.
The United States has no choice under international law but to release the weapons.
On Wednesday, Yemen�s foreign minister, Abu Bakr al-Kerbi, summoned U.S. Ambassador Edmund J. Hull to protest the seizure. The U.S. Embassy had no comment.
�The minister informed the ambassador that the shipment was bound to Yemen and that the missiles were only to be used in defensive purposes,� a Yemeni official told the Associated Press.
A statement run by SABA said Yemen stressed the importance of the return of the shipment to the Yemeni government.
Yemen also sent a formal protest to Spain, whose warships intercepted the North Korean vessel.

The ship was stopped off the Arabian Peninsula on Monday, and U.S. officials said it was carrying a dozen short- to medium-range missiles, similar to the Scud missiles as well as missile parts.
One Yemeni official told the Associated Press that the United States knew about the weapons shipment and that it was heading from North Korea to Yemen.
The freighter�s manifest did not list missiles, instead declaring the ship was carrying cement.((nb This is a lie the manifest declared weapons)
The said the ship, while owned by North Korea, was registered in Cambodia.

INACCURATE WEAPON
It was unclear precisely what missiles were aboard the seized vessel.

JB:

reuters.com...

Spain's Trillo told a news conference in Madrid that 15 Scud missiles, 15 conventional warheads, 23 tanks of nitric acid rocket propellant and 85 drums of unidentified chemicals had been found hidden under cement bags.

It does seem something of a mess: but it's rather hard to see who's won on this one (except for the poor Spanish of course!).
It so obviously seems to be a blunder by the US that I am tempted to suspect that the US wanted it this way ( or thought they did).
This ship will have been tracked from the moment it set sail and it's fairly hard to imagine a N. Korean cargo that wasn't weapons: they haven't got anything else to sell.
So, the US may have seen it as an opportunity to annoy the Koreans, E. Africans and Yemenis at one go - it keeps the axis of evil in the public eye, and distracts from the dreadful "dossier".
On the other hand, the Koreans may have played them for suckers because it certainly LOOKS like a climbdown and a blunder by the US.
It's worth remembering that, while we occasionally reflect upon GWB as the leader of a nation in economic decline, two-thirds of whose voters didn't vote for him, the entirely mad Kim is the leader of a nation in its economic death-throes where no one freely voted for him.
Even Communist dictators have to please the home crowds occasionally. And it's not hard to see how this could be manipulated for N. Korean domestic consumption.

yeah, or maybe the whole gung-ho nature of the US military at the moment caused them to massively screw up.

GIVE THEM BACK THEIR FUC%$�^ SCUD NOW !!!

Like this, TB795 and QO will be happy when the US Soldiers will be under scuds attacks. I'm pretty sure that they will explain us that we are responsible for this new scud attacks.

Of course, these 2 great democrats and peace lovers will not explain us why they don't shout against a third world nation who don't have the money for wealth, medicare, foods, drugs for their starving peoples, but have money to buy ballistic missiles !

It's sure, now that their gov & military have these scud, the Yeminite populations are feeling proud and great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

" Look, we are starving, we can't feed our childrens, we don't have any medicare, but HEY !!!! We have ballistic missiles !!! We are a powerfull nation !!! "

sorry UP but can you explain why we should be the only nations in the world who are allowed ballistic, nuclear, and chemical weapons?

Originally posted by Lupe_101
sorry UP but can you explain why we should be the only nations in the world who are allowed ballistic, nuclear, and chemical weapons?

Cuz USA have the money and don't have the Yemen GDP.
USA are NOT a terrorists nations.
USA are a democratic nation.

I can find others good reasons, but do you need it ?