Venezuela's Chavez Says No Oil if U.S. Tries to Meddle in Vote

Venezuela's Chavez Says No Oil if U.S. Tries to Meddle in Vote

www.foxnews.com

President Hugo Chavez urged supporters to approve constitutional changes that he said could keep him in power for life and threatened to cut off oil exports to the United States if it tries to meddle in Sunday's vote.

(visit the link for the full news article)

What do yu guys think about all of this?

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

i think its ironic that Chavez is the bad guy for wanting to have a popular vote on some amendments...

The amendments would remove term limits, extend presidential terms from six to seven years, grant Chavez direct control over the Central Bank and monetary policy, allow his government to detain citizens without charge during a state of emergency, and let the state occupy private properties it wants to expropriate.

"If you wish – and if you approve the referendum – I will stay as long as God wills!

when the US PARIOT ACT gives nearly the same powers to the US government, minus the extended presidental term. But if Chavez puts a vote to the people to be able to elect him over and over again, and the people agree, who are we to say its wrong? Thats what democracy is, the majority of the people want it, they get it.
And by the way, its not like Chavez would be in power forever, he would still have to be elected after every term.

The changes to 69 of the constitution's 350 articles would enshrine a socialist economic system, create new classes of property to be managed collectively and let Chavez stand for re-election in 2012 and beyond.

www.theconservativevoice.com...

How long have the Saudi kings been in power again? who voted them in? ohhh thats right, nobody. At least Venezuelans have a vote.

and what about this in egypt ??...

(Cairo, March 26, 2007) – Proposed constitutional amendments approved by the Egyptian parliament on March 21 effectively remove basic protections against violations of Egyptians’ rights to privacy, individual freedom, security of person and home and due process, Human Rights Watch said today..
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Activists were protesting proposed changes to article 179 of the constitution that would have the effect of removing constitutional safeguards requiring the government to obtain judicial warrants before searching a citizen’s home, correspondence, telephone calls, and other communications, when the government deems activity being investigated is terrorist-related. In such cases the president would also be allowed to send cases to special “exceptional” courts or military tribunals, whose decisions may not be appealed, instead of the regular courts, thereby jeopardizing individuals’ fair trial rights. The amendments would also mean security forces would be authorized to exercise powers of arrest that could lead to arbitrary, and potentially indefinite, detentions.

hrw.org...

do you remember hearing about this all over the news?
i bet you would if it was in iran, or venezuela.

and in return for this activity they get this kind of treatment..

the US has provided Egypt with about $30 billion in military aid making Egypt the second largest recipient of US military aid after Israel. Also, Egypt received about $30 billion in economic aid within the same time frame.

en.wikipedia.org...
Why the double standard???
could it be this?

Venezuela's leader Hugo Chavez has underlined his intention to develop an alternative economic vision for Latin America by pulling his country from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund - organisations that have long had a controversial role in the region.
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He has long derided the IMF and the World Bank for being controlled by US and Western interests and has said their policies of tight budget controls, privatisation and open markets have benefited foreign companies while leaving much of Latin America in grinding poverty.

I don't like Chavez. He comes off as a little guy that wants to play with the big boys. If he didn't have oil, no one would know his name. His threats with his oil just go to show how badly the world needs to develop alternate energy. Who needs a nuke or a military when you can just get anyone to do your bidding by threatening to cut off their oil?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the US's meddling in their affairs either. Two wrongs don't make a right though. The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Ballsy dude!

Hehe, I dig Chavez.

He knows full well that the world won't tolerate another US war and that their economy won't support one anyway.

I support the removal of term limits, by the way.
I believe it is undemocratic to force people from office based only on the time they have served. If the people want to keep electing someone and the vote is fair (Chavez has not even been accused of trying to rig an election, as far as I know), why not let the people keep their leader?

Think of some of the great leaders of your own nations. How much more good could they have done if they were allowed to stay in power longer?

Term limits are all about maintaining the status quo. Real change takes time. By ensuring that no-one can stay in office long enough to see long-term plans through, you ensure that no real change can happen.

Chavez, I feel, has something to teach the rest of us about democracy, vision, and how to be a stand up leader of the people.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention; I feel his is perfectly within his rights to cut off any nation from their oil if they take make criminal acts of interference against his. If the US can unilaterally impose sanctions on just about anyone simply because they disagree with their politics, why would it be unfair for them to suffer the same sort of fallout?

[edit on 2-12-2007 by BitRaiser]

reply to post by BitRaiser

the vote is fair

My problem with the lack of term limits is the case of unfair elections. I mean, I would lose my mind if Bush was able to run for election again. I understand the notion of it, in a perfect world, would be great. Have one great leader guide the country for a long time. However, it is the crappy corrupt leader that would abuse the system.

BTW: just to check, I googled "Chavez rigged elections" to see what came up.

archive.newsmax.com...

The controversy swirling around Smartmatic Corp. – which supplies voting machines to many U.S. states – doesn’t begin with the recent reports that the company has links to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez’s regime.

And that election was so rigged in advance in favor of Chavez that the European Union (EU) refused to play an observer’s role, NewsMax reported at the time.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The five main opposition parties boycotted the election, accusing the electoral body of bias.

So, it looks like a lack of term limits could be a bad think for his country.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Ya know... I just did some quick research on some of the information that I read in those articles you provided, and I haven't been able to verify any of the more "sticky" points from outside, non-biased sources.

One thing you have to remember about Venezuela is that Chazev gets a LOT of bad press because the media is almost entirely controlled by private interests and have a serious hate on for Chazev because he is a socialist (and thus rather anti-corporate).

I don't know if you've seen this, but if you've got some time and haven't, it's worth watching:

Google Video Link

The War On Democracy by John Pilger

Edit: One interesting bit (as I understand it from various reading) the comment "The five main opposition parties boycotted the election, accusing the electoral body of bias." was over the fact that the opposition considered it unfair for Chazev to encourage the impoverished citizens of the barrios to vote and to do so how they choose. He's a hero to those people... and well he should be considering what they have gained from his time in office.

Free healthcare, education, a chance to be heard.

The elite believe that they should run Venezuela. Chevez believes that the people should run Venezuela. There's a hella lot more poor in that country than rich or middle class (thanks partly to it's history of being plundered by those elites).

Little wonder why he is so unpopular with local Private Interests and the Corporate West.



[edit on 2-12-2007 by BitRaiser]

Originally posted by Karlhungis

And that election was so rigged in advance in favor of Chavez that the European Union (EU) refused to play an observer’s role, NewsMax reported at the time.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I didn't know that. Funny, Jimmy Carter said the vote was, "Good to go" and honest.

I've read through what Chavez is wanting to push through, and there is nothing really wrong with it.

*Maximum working day cut from 8 hours to 6
*Voting age lowered from 18 to 16
*Social security benefits extended to workers in informal sector

The idea is to turn Venezuela into a Socialist State, we have to remember he has giving the people free health care and education. Chavez has used oil money to help pay off Latin Ameican debt, given cheap oil to poor communities (including London. Chavez is the reason the poor don't have to pay for transport in the City). Plus, he's reduced unemployment and the poverty rate (even giving fair loans to neighbouring countries in Latin America).

reply to post by infinite
He sounds like he has done some good but it also sounds as if e is trying to be president for life and THAT is what is scary about him...not to mention tht he is a U.S. hater.

I just wish we would be able to produce enough oil where we wouldn't need Chavez' stupid oil and OPEC's either.

Originally posted by Polite American
He sounds like he has done some good but it also sounds as if e is trying to be president for life and THAT is what is scary about him...not to mention tht he is a U.S. hater.

He is against the US government and it's policy, nothing against it's people or the nation itself.

Chavez has given cheap oil to the poor in America, so I don't think he hates you all

reply to post by BitRaiser


Excellent video

I'm half way through, EVERYONE should watch it

reply to post by Monsterenergy791


I think every dictator would like to be "left alone" They would love it if they can rig ellections to end elections! You bet he doesn't want medling in his fake elections. cant have that! And then you will hear yeah, right Hugo from the left! and the hoolywood crowd will go down their and hug this guy, call him a visionary or some thing like that. But, in the end all they will get is repression. Brutal repession. and freedom takes another step backwards.

Originally posted by Polite American
reply to post by infinite

 

He sounds like he has done some good but it also sounds as if e is trying to be president for life and THAT is what is scary about him...

Why?

What's scary about that?
As long as the elections are fair, there shouldn't be anything scary about the people voting for who they want regardless of arbitrary term restrictions.

It's more democratic, not less.

You also have to remember that he is effecting sweeping change in the country. Taking it from a corrupt capitalist vassal state, to a democratic socialist nation.

I wish him all the luck. If nothing else, it's a fantastic experiment.

Then again, if you are a rich corrupt capitalist, you do have something to fear. If his experiment is a success, it's going to prove that socialism can work. There are people that would do anything to stop that from happening.

not to mention tht he is a U.S. hater.

He;s not a US hater. He is effectively the enemy of Corporate America... and since the administration serves Corporate America (not the people), they too are the enemy. They shouldn't be. They should be good friends, pushing towards better forms of democracy. But that doesn't serve the Corporate Interests.

reply to post by rockets red glare


Kinda ironic, that sig you got there.

Do you honestly believe that the US system is the only form of Democracy that can work? Are you aware that Canada is a Socialist Democracy that has been doing just fine?

I'm reasonably sure you just want to be all fanatical on the issue and not listen to anything anyone else has to say (unless it forms with your particular bias), but I would honestly like to know if you have actually *thought* about the issue and why you feel the way you do?

Chavez hasn't displayed much in terms of a dictator. He liberated the masses to have a voice, a better life, a chance to excel. What was his crime? He took from the elite to support the masses. He took the rich down a peg or two and brought everyone else up.

I ask you, what has he done to earn your ire?

Ah... other than some amusing name calling, that is.

Well, it looks like it all went smoothly.
No riots, no bloodshed.
The oil will continue to flow to the US... for now, at least.

The CNE's president, Tibisay Lucena, told a press conference that only polling stations where voters are standing in line will remain open. She added that the day's vote had taken place "happily and in peace."

"Venezuela has shown the world that it is a democratic and civic minded nation," she said.

Some 16 million voters were registered for the referendum which ran from 6:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. local time (1000 to 2000 GMT).

The reforms' most controversial measure is the proposal to extend the presidential term from the current six years to seven, and indefinite reelection. Less controversial measures include reducing the official working day to six hours from eight, ending central bank autonomy, reorganizing regional politics and changing the name of the armed forces.

Lucena also restated the legal ban against domestic and international press from publishing exit polls, saying there would be sanctions for those that did so before the CNE had published its first results.

Source

Now it's wait and see time as the votes are counted.
I personally hope it passes as it would be a major victory for Social Democracy.

Just as a sideline, I tripped over a very good example of dis-information about Chavez;

I will be citing this article in full for the purpose of rebuking it.
Telegraph UK: Venezuela votes over new powers for Chavez

Venezuela votes over new powers for Chavez

Right away, I take issue with the title of the article. This referendum is not specifically about powers for Chavez, rather it's about making changes to the system allowing it to take steps towards socialism.

Venezuelans will discover today whether Hugo Chavez, their leader, can declare himself president for life.

Should the vote pass, Chavez will not have the ability to "declare himself president for life". It will (amount many other changes) remove term limits, allowing the people to vote him in for as long as they wish.

Speaking before a referendum, which could enshrine Socialism as the country's governing philosophy, Mr Chavez threatened that the proposed changes to the constitution would allow him to "govern Venezuela until the year 2050", when he would be 96 years old.

Threatened? Aside from the fact that this comment was made as a joke in typical Chavez fashion, it's no threat when it's supported by the people. In fact, the full comment was "If the people will it, I will govern Venezuela until the year 2050", followed by a chuckle.

As last-minute opinion polls looked to narrowly favour the No vote, the Leftist president rallied his supporters, urging them to back him and send a clear message to President George W Bush.

The (almost entirely privately owned) media in Venezuela has been accused, repeatedly, of reporting false pole figures in attempts to sway public opinion. In fact, one of the measures contained referendum is to ban exit poles in order to defeat these disinformation tactics and keep the voting private (as voting is supposed to be).

"Our real adversary, our real enemy, is the north American empire," he told some 200,000 cheering supporters at a rally, before declaring that he plans to cut oil supplies to the US.

As this thread states, his threat was to cut oil supplies *IF* the US interfered with the voting (as they have been accused of in the past). This is a classic example of taking a comment out of context to make it sound like something completely different from what it was supposed to mean.

I hope this opens a few eyes as to how the media works so hard to Demonize a movement that is in support of the people, simply because it is a threat to the elite.

I am not a fan of Chavez. If I was a Venezuelan I would definitely be in the opposition. I would fight for freedom with all of the like-minded people in the country.

But...

I am an American and I truly believe that what he does in his own country is not my business. My heart goes out to the people that live under Chavez, and I would be for a law that allows these people to live in exile in the US, but military action is not a good way to solve the problem.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


I'm curious... what exactly is it that causes you to have a negative opinion of Chavez?

Why would you "feel for the people" living under him when he is hugely popular and considered a national hero to all the poor and disadvantaged that suffered under the yoke of the elite for so long?

Remember, he was democratically elected. Whats' more, when a coupe illegally removed him from power, it was the people who rose up to re-instate him.

I'm very curious as to the reasoning of anti-Chavez folk...

TextWhy would you "feel for the people" living under him when he is hugely popular and considered a national hero to all the poor and disadvantaged that suffered under the yoke of the elite for so long?

He is hugely popular. Hitler was hugely popular. Bush was hugely popular for a while. This is a moot point.

He is a socialist. I believe socialism gives to much power to the state, and this is in direct conflict with freedom.

TextRight away, I take issue with the title of the article. This referendum is not specifically about powers for Chavez, rather it's about making changes to the system allowing it to take steps towards socialism.

I think he is a power hungry person. He wants to stifle the individual and remove freedoms for his own personal gain. His amendments will allow him to be president for life if his people vote for him, but if he controls the wealth of the country as well as the media, he is already a shoo-in. He can now easily take control of the media if he just demonizes the people that own it.

Basically, I do not like Chavez because he is against individual freedom. For the same reason, I do not like Bush. The one good thing Bush has going for him, Chavez does not have. This one thing is domestic opposition. Bush is at a really low approval rating.... and that is awesome, if only Chavez could have the same.

Do you honestly believe that the US system is the only form of Democracy that can work? Are you aware that Canada is a Socialist Democracy that has been doing just fine?

The US is not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic. Democracy is mob rule.