UFO's...OK! Aliens...uhhh, still waiting?

To all the alien believers,

Have any of you ever seen one? Not the memory of a supposed abduction, but an actual account of what they look like, act like, feel like, or whatever? Nearly every occurrence seems to be shrouded in a dreamlike fashion, maybe that's just what they are!?

To the UFO believers,

OK, maybe you have seen a UFO...that's cool, but that's it right!? Just because it is Unidentified and Flying and an Object does in no way mean that there is an alien piloting it, right? So, why are so many people jumping to that conclusion? I mean really, that's just downright bad assumption! Unless the thing flies up to your window with a little alien dud that waves hello, there's no way to make the leap in thinking that it has an alien driver.

I have asked many UFO supporters to tell me exactly what they saw. They go into detail and then somewhere in there appears the alien jump. I ask where the alien comes in and the usual response is, "well there's no way that we could make something like that". There's the problem.....who knows that? Why not?

Yeah UFO's by definiton are out there......BUT that means only that, as of yet, they are unidentified, that's all. No little green men, no greys, and for sure no ridiculous reptilian things either, right? Or am I wrong, your chance to share your stories/videos/thoughts.

Looking forward to it...Peace, Mondo

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
I have asked many UFO supporters to tell me exactly what they saw. They go into detail and then somewhere in there appears the alien jump. I ask where the alien comes in and the usual response is, "well there's no way that we could make something like that". There's the problem.....who knows that? Why not?

Yes I agree with you that people could be observing secret technology and aircraft developed by someone on Earth, but UFO sightings didn't start 10, 20 or even 30 years ago.

There are accounts of objects performing incredible maneuvers at surreal speeds 60+ years ago. I think that's why a lot of people jumped (and still do today) to the alien hypothesis when faced with a UFO sighting.

From the documents that has been released and declassified we also found that the US Military (in particular) were extremely worried and interested in the phenomena at the time, which leads me to the conclusion that whatever it was flying it wasn't theirs.

Interestingly enough, the Russians - from what I know and read - also seemed to have had the same reaction as their American counterparts regarding UFOs at the time.

So who else do you think was able to build such craft at that time? Or do you believe that the US and/or Russia could have built them 60+ years ago?

reply to post by Mondogiwa

Unless the thing flies up to your window with a little alien dud that waves hello, there's no way to make the leap in thinking that it has an alien driver.

Well that is where most people get turned upside down. The problem isn't with the "aliens," it is with the "humans." Unfortunately our concept of alien is a little green man. Our concept of a greeting is a wave.

As danx pointed out UFO sightings have been going on for quite some time. Therefore it is logical to exclude the possibility that they are made by Americans or Russians.

On another note, I feel like our understanding of "the big picture" is probably very incomplete. I believe some circles in Russia and the United States know this already and thus don't talk about it. They don't know either. What good does it do them to come forward and say: "They appear to be intelligent objects. We don't where they come from. We don't know their intent. We are powerless to stop them and they come and go as they choose."

Look at this way... think about some primitive tribe in S. America or Africa. When something happens that is unexplainable the people in the tribe turn to the tribe mystic/medicine man/elder/you get my point. Does this individual tell the tribes people, "look honestly I don't have a clue!!" No of course not. Instead he will probably scatter some ashes and say a prayer and tell his fellow tribesmen that "it's the spirits." Just think of the USA as a huge tribe and "big brother" is our tribe's mystic. Instead of "spirits" you'll be told it was Venus reflecting off the clouds, a weather balloon, an airplane, etc and not to worry. I hope this analogy makes sense to you.

If you really think about it, our reality is a vast place. You would be a fool to not seriously consider the fact that there are higher intelligences than our own, especially given the evidence. One thing you might want to seriously consider is that the "aliens" are AIs. Look at the direction humanity is going. Computers are the future and everybody knows it.

"Sometime in the next thirty years, very quietly one day we will cease to be the brightest things on earth."
-James MCAlear, President Gentronix Laboratories

I got that quote from one of Michio Kaku's books titled "Visions." When you have one of the most respected theoretical physicists in the world quote one of the most respected biophysicists in the world... well it is what it is. Thirty years might not be accurate but that's not the point. The point is, there is a very real possibility McAlear is right whether you want to believe it or not. There is no stopping it because as you can see our species thrives on competition. In other words, if one guy doesn't invent the A-Bomb another guy will. What if humans are unable to figure out the UFO problem? Because it is meant for their successors to discover..

Never forget the great Carl Sagan. Although the UFO community has some mixed feelings on him due to his public shunning of the UFO topic, everyone still respects him. Many consider Kaku to be his successor in regards to his ability to discuss advanced topics in laymens terms.

“What does it mean for a civilization to be a million years old? We have had radio telescopes and spaceships for a few decades; our technical civilization is a few hundred years old … an advanced civilization millions of years old is as much beyond us as we are beyond a bushbaby or a macaque.”

-Carl Sagan

Sagan asks a very good question. What does it mean? I certainly don't have a clue, although I can specualte like the rest of you. What do UFOs mean? Indeed..

Have any of you ever seen one? Not the memory of a supposed abduction, but an actual account of what they look like, act like, feel like, or whatever? Nearly every occurrence seems to be shrouded in a dreamlike fashion, maybe that's just what they are!?

Mondogiwa,

I take your point here but you can't ask if anyone has ever seen an alien and then immediately discount their memory of seeing one. That makes no sense. From what I understand, the vast majority of supposed alien abduction victims usually report seeing the type of beings during their encounter.

I've never seen Jesus, yet billions of people around the world worship him and think he's the Son of God. Try questioning that, and people will condemn you, and say "How dare you!?" Yet their only proof is The Bible, the "Word of God" funnily actually written by men...

I have seen aliens and UFOs, and they are a lot more real than Christianity, my friend. They are a lot more real than "The War on Terror" or "America, the free." or any of the other illusions people don't even bother to question and just accept as fact.

It's good that you are skeptical, but can you question millions of people who can give detailed accounts and even pieces of evidence to back up their claims, and NOT be skeptical about the rest of the rediculous dogmas our societies are FOUNDED upon???

Aliens should be at the bottom of your list of things to be skeptical about.

the reason i think aliens pilot Some of them (not all) is this

ive seen ufo's before, One particular incident being the important factor.

I saw one flying around, acting really weird (zig zagging, stopping, acting like a drunk basically).

Then i saw two US AF Jets approach it from 2 separate directions. "Boxing it in" So to speak.

Then the UFO Shot off directly upwards into outer space instantaniously, at unbelieveably high speed.

Then the jets turned around and went home.

Key words :: The ufo shot directly upwards into outer space, very fast.

All i saw was the Tracer light left in its trail.

Thats why im convinced Some of them are aliens. The type of vast conspiracy required to make this type of craft "man-made, man-piloted" is so mind boggling and complex, id rather not even go into it.

Occams Razor, it was alien origins. Simple answer. Trying to say it was "man-made" would mean
1) Humans have space-faring technology
2) humans have a massive coverup regaurding the hiding of that space-faring tech
3) The shadow group that pilots these craft , flys into regular airspace, plays with F-16's for fun, then darts off (testing defenses?)

anyhow, you can see why the arguement that what i saw was alien, makes sense and why the arguement that what i saw was man-made would require a huge leap of faith.

Thanks for listening.

Well,

I wanted some things to make me think and you have all done that so far.....kudos to you all and thank you.

Wickedstar,
I think my meaning may have come across unclear here. I have found that most people that have claimed to actually see an alien have been in either a hypnosis sort of state, and only then do they have any memory of that being. I do not speak of all people here, i was just searching for anybody that may want to respond that had a very clear and coherent account of such an encounter. I was actually trying to get some responses from people on this, not to offend or discredit anybody. My apology if it sounded that way.

Indierockalien,
Regarding Christianity I completely disagree, but then again I can understand your basis point of logic here. I guess if there were a book written by the aliens that had tons of factual and archaeological evidence I would tend to lean that way more, but not yet.

Scramjet and Danx,
As far as the aliens maybe being a sort of AI, that's an interesting idea I suppose. I really like your analogy of the tribes and their medicine men and what they would or would not say. Your point is well taken on that note and I really tend to think in your direction if I loosedn up on the idea of the technology really being our own, however as it stands, I still believe that. The events happening 60+ years ago is debateable still as well. Do I think we or Russia, as you used the example, hace had that sort of technology for that long??? Well actually, I think it's much further advanced that most would really believe or imagine possible. Again, i hope you both express more of your thoughts, they are based on good theory I think.

Muzzleflash,
Last, regarding the UFO experience reply, I still don't see it. Yes, you may have seen an amazing craft doing an amazing feat, but that DOES NOT mean it's alien. I do not know what you saw, or why you saw it even, but there could be reasons that we just don't know as to why it did what it did. Again, i do not discredit that you saw something truely bizarre, but there is an error in the assumption that it is alien.....and yes, that's just my opinion. Thanks for the reply, i respect your time and thought in posting the info, but it's yet another unexplainable event involving a craft is all to me.

Thanks again, I look forward to reading more ideas...Peace, Mondo

reply to post by Mondogiwa


I think you make a very good point here. I do believe there is "some" new life form visiting us, because the accounts and evidence of the tactical ability of UFOs are simply otherworldly. I digress however, as there isn't any really "good" evidence either way. I choose to believe in something because of the way our government has handled people who have come out to disclose earth-shattering information.

The reason I believe in "The Greys" is because of the vast amount of reported sightings of these beings by former military and researchers. The Greatest Story Ever Denied had some really influential people in it making some very interesting claims. I cannot discount anyone's claims when they have so many to back their stories.

However, I don't take it as proof. I believe there is a God, but I can't prove that. I just choose to believe in something and if it is unproved, then I will nod my head and be thankful I know the truth.

I think its a great post though and something everyone should think about before getting on these forums and making outlandish claims they say they can "prove" and then only talk about it as if their word means anything.

But I do ask you, what do you think of all the people with similar experiences? Can we not at least speculate over something reported so many times? Or do you think the people around you are really that deceptive and rotten?

I'll give humanity the benefit of the doubt.

SantaClaus,

Hmmm...my thoughts on what I think of all the people with similar experiences? Can we speculate, of course, but that's all it can be at this point...speculation!?
My initial feelings on the similar experiences could be a few things. I think it could be real of course, but as you have read by my posts I doubt that as of now. I think they could for any number of reasons, most of which we may not understand either......BUT, and there's the big BUt, pardon the pun.
People tend to group together over anything common, whether it be spiritual, racial, whatever have you. Now, enter into this very typical human characteristic something that people do not understand, an alien experience in this case. Maybe it's some fear of something innate, maybe it's a child regression stage, just don't know so far...but I do know that people will elaborate a story and then believe in that story. It's sorta like the telephone game, where there is an initial story, very mundane in most cases. By the end, that initial story is totally different, and that's only a few people based on a not so serious subject. Are you sort of seeing where I am going with this??
I do not claim to have the answer to any of it really, but i do want to set the point out there about it. We tend to make these quantum leaps to get our brains to wrap around what cannot be easily understood right away. Give it some time, search for what other reasons could explain what is going on in the mind. That, my friend, is what i really think to be the culprit of it all, the mind. We carry it around all day long and don't understand even the least bit about it it seems. I just think that we can play some unbelievable tricks on ourselves and get ourselves to believe anything we want to believe. Then again, there we go into what reality may be, or is it self justified?
I appreciate your response and look forward to your next post here. I need to go sort out my own reality for the moment and think on this some more!

Peace and thanks, Mondo

reply to post by Mondogiwa


Well that's a perfect post, as I cannot rightfully argue any of it. I can only offer some more to ponder.

I completely agree that our minds can really do some strange things to us and our creativity can sometimes be influenced by others to form a false reality. That's an argument for any post on this forum. I minored in Sociology in college (didn't finish the minor if that matters) but we discussed just such a tendency. I'll try for an example:

There are 100 people on the same city block. A man on that block walks up to a woman and begins beating her senseless. People will all look at each other as if to say "should we help?". As a group, they most likely won't, as they will deceive each other to believe that it isn't possibly as bad as each one of their own minds perceives it. When I lived in Philly, just such a thing happened to a woman for almost 5 minutes before she was beaten to death in front of approx. 300 witnesses.

Sociology says that you are more likely to help if there are only 3 people on that street and the 2 other than you are the people involved in the problem. You're given your own choice without having the privilege of being deceived by the people around you.

Point is, our objectivity, as human beings, has either been societally or biologically weakened. Or maybe it was never there. We don't think as individuals if we are given the chance not to.

So yes, many many people saying the same thing does not make it true. But to me, I need to decide whether a person is trustworthy enough to let them form a perception for me. Its all a very convoluted and I probably should think more on this myself, as my typing diarrhea here has made me wonder.

I would rather try to debunk actual "abductions," although it probably hurts my point, but its because I've experienced sleep paralysis and it is VERY real to me. But I know it isn't, because no one else heard the sounds happening in my room, even my girlfriend in the bed with me. I see how people can make themselves believe it, but it just is too familiar to me when I hear an account.

I'll wrap it up. In the end, I really think it might just be that if we want to believe, we will. That's why we have some of the fantastical claims we have on here. Its like a snowball effect, each person fills the next one's head with more bulls***, until there are many people with tons of bulls***. I guess the only reason I'd believe more is because I've got a few more scientists and field people behind my theory.

Again, thanks for the post, as I think more people should be posting here and ridding their heads of cobwebs and getting to actual evidence. For now, sadly, its all like some science fiction novel slowly being written be all of us. S+F

-SC

EDIT: I's don't speel good

[edit on 2-12-2007 by SantaClaus]

reply to post by SantaClaus

I guess the only reason I'd believe more is because I've got a few more scientists and field people behind my theory.

Scientists are like everyone else. They are specialized in their respected fields. But they still need to bring a pay check home at the end of the month.. There is no money in UFOlogy. But there are scientists who have tried to tackle the UFO problem and there are many more who are interested in it as a serious hobby.

Also, I'm not sure how you think all these credible people make up

tons of bulls***?

You are talking about very intelligent people with esteemed positions in society and nothing ($$) to gain from coming forward other than making themselves look odd? Who wants to do that?

If it was just a few washed up actors and hillbilly farmers I would believe they were probably on drugs or booze and didn't know what they saw. But you have tons of credible people from all over the world blowing the whistle. And physical scientists who have gone to "landing sites" and discovered physical traces.

My aunt saw a five foot spinning metal disc in Chimbote, Peru, in the 1960s. Right up close. Either she's a liar or she saw it. There was no sci-fi culture in Peru in the 1960s. My family (in Peru) are drug free. They are very Catholic (as are most Peruvians) and go to church every sunday in their best clothes. If my aunt was going to invent something in her head to get attention, why not claim she saw the Virgin Mary? Why a spinning silver disc which shot up at tremendous speed and she didn't tell anyone about it till the 1970s (7-10 yrs later) when she finally told her husband?

reply to post by Scramjet76


We are not arguing the UFO theory. Just the theory of the beings that pilot them. Mondo is right to say that there isn't any evidence to support the "grey" phenomenon.

Mondo, good post! I have thought this for a long time. I would agree with you entirely if it was not for my own research into ancient artwork and biblical references that make believe in alien life (although not necessarily these "Greys"). But yes a persuasive argument. Keep up the good work.

reply to post by SantaClaus


I started off good and then just got off topic... maybe just looking for excuse to tell aunties story again.

As for the pilots... we know someone or something is piloting them. We can spend our whole lives dreaming up ideas on who pilots them. So we are going on the best available evidence. People who claim to see short skinny grey beings with big eyes might sound whacko, however that is our best available evidence. Could these people all be dreaming about the same thing? Maybe. But there is physical evidence when a person is physically missing. Could the intelligence behind this just be feeding the "abductees" false memories of little grey aliens? Sure. In fact I would expect them too.

Right now we just don't know. But some people outright remember their experiences and remember little grey beings. Others have undergone hypnosis to recover memories which turned out to be little grey beings. Little greys are the most common type.

And by the way, I feel the term "piloting them" makes them sound like an airplane pilot. I'm assuming that they don't "pilot" in any conventional way that we are accustomed too. So I would refer to them as occupants and not pilots.

Haha, yeah you're right, pilot does sound funny. "Inhabitants" maybe?

I've said this on many threads, and I believe many abductions are just night terrors (sleep paralysis) influenced by stories. Many abductions may not be explainable this way, which is why I try to keep and open mind.

But really, all we have to go on are accounts. Yes there are many, and I think there has to be something to them, but I can say that with no certainty because I've never seen the frightened face of someone I truly trust who has seen one. Its a conundrum, and until we get some high-quality footage, better than Alien Interrogation (which I thought had some plausibility), we can only have faith in the fact that everyone who says they've seen them are not lying.

UHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I dunnooo really but like, many professional people have seen these OBJECTS..not just weird blobs of light and like, they are military trained observers too and beyond that actual radar contacts of objects doing this no human equipment can do (back in the day especially) and I do not think we have devices which can do this or at least not made by humans so its like you gotta take this as evidence we are not all looney tunes seeing shapes in the sky especially consider the pedigree of some witness and evidence (RAF Bentwaters) I dont think your really considering any of that at all. Peace out