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Iran Didn't Spark a Middle East Nuclear Arms Race, It's Joining the One Israel Started

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posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 04:29 PM
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www.mideastweb.org...

I see there are quite a few people here who need to learn more about the true history of Israel and how they came into existence.

And for the person who incorrectly stated that the US protects Israel. Tell me, how many times has the US sent troops to help Israel in any of the illegal wars waged against them??

And before someone points out that the US sends arms to Israel, so what, what do you think the Soviets were doing for the Arab nations? It balanced out. Its just too bad for the arabs that Israel has better fighters, and US equipment proved to be far superior to Soviet equipment.

As for Iran, you know if you took out there ruling mullahs and their rule of hate, the people of Iran wouldn't have the problems they face now. Let them really choose their leaders, and there would be a real peace between Iran and Israel and the US.




posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by spooky mulder
Israel uses its not so secret nuclear arsenal to keep its superiorly numericaly enemy neighbors in check.Even when they were almost overun by their enemies in 1973 they didnt launch them.Would i belive that the iranians would show the same restraint?No.If anything they would use them them to threaten the region and europe/usa.


Good point.

That is a legitimate usage of nuclear weapons, a defense to keep the "Mongol Hordes" at bay, and to allow small countries to exist in a hostile environment. Even large countries can use nukes in that manner. Had NATO tried to match the ground troops of the Soviet/Chinese empires instead, they might well have lost the cold war.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by US Monitor
www.mideastweb.org...

I see there are quite a few people here who need to learn more about the true history of Israel and how they came into existence.

And for the person who incorrectly stated that the US protects Israel. Tell me, how many times has the US sent troops to help Israel in any of the illegal wars waged against them??

And before someone points out that the US sends arms to Israel, so what, what do you think the Soviets were doing for the Arab nations? It balanced out. Its just too bad for the arabs that Israel has better fighters, and US equipment proved to be far superior to Soviet equipment.

As for Iran, you know if you took out there ruling mullahs and their rule of hate, the people of Iran wouldn't have the problems they face now. Let them really choose their leaders, and there would be a real peace between Iran and Israel and the US.


Perhaps no arms or no troops. But $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:


U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact
Summary

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact

All because of bible prophecy! This is highly illogical!

BTW, can anyone get figures from 1997-2007?

With inflation and dying USD I bet these figures would be......


[edit on 053131p://upSaturday by QuasiShaman]



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by QuasiShaman
 


I addressed that the US gave arms, and of course you did back it up very nicely with links showing the money the US has given Israel. But I ask is that any different from the money the US gave to Germany, Japan and Italy, not to mention Great Britain, France, South Korea, among many others to rebuild after WWII, and the Korean War?

Also you didn't address the fact that Iran and the Arab nations as well as the Soviets have and are still supplying money to hamas, hezbollah, Fatah and other groups bent on destroying Israel. Although Fatah seems to understand the futility of that action and are now working towards creating their own state instead of worrying about doing the impossible and destroying Israel.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 07:25 PM
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Why would the U.S. give money to a nation that attacked one of their warships 40 years ago?

It's like me giving you money and weapons and you using them to attack me.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by TheBandit795
 


Yet we rebuilt Japan after they bombed us on Dec 7th, 1941 sinking multiple ships and killing thousands of our people.

Also aside from 1 holy city that could be partioned and shared among the Jews, Muslims and Christians as it is holy to all 3 religions, the land Israel has is not filled with oil, nor is it rich in Gold or other valuables, and it is the smallest nation in the region. So honestly for what real reason do muslims have for wanting to rid the area of the Jews other then for their own hatred?

And please don't say because the arabs wanted to give the land to the Palis, we all know that is a lie and the proof is in the link I provided already. The palis were badly treated by Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. The PA is only a reason for the arabs to practice their hatred of the jews.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


Arabs practicing hatred of Jews?

I would say its actually the opposite. The Israelis hate their neighbors. Not every single person living in that state is Jewish either, but the regime occupying Israel is for the most part Jewish (Zionist).

Both sides are wrong. We are all equal under God, and no race/religion is 'chosen' (sorry to burst someone's bubble).


I forgot to add that the state of Israel is not the same as the biblical Jewish nation. The Zionist creation of Israel is a product of World War II and industrious colonizers able to take advantage of a public weary of the holocaust.

[edit on 12/1/2007 by biggie smalls]



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


You're kidding right? Tell me, is it Israel that strikes at PA targets on a daily basis with rockets and suicide bombers? Is it Israel that has launched wars of aggression against their neighbors since 1947?

Tell us all what happened in Gaza after Israel lived up to their end of agreements and removed settlements from there and gave control over to the PA? It is now a base for hamas and they launch attacks against Israel every chance they get.

The facts are there for all to see that the Arabs practice their hatred of Israel daily. The truth is there for all to see.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 08:54 PM
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Let me get one thing straight. I am defending neither side. BOTH sides are in the wrong.

No I'm not kidding you. The Israeli state SHOULD NOT exist in the first place. Now that it does, they have to understand they're under some hot water due to their OWN actions.

The Israelis attack Palestinians as well. Last time I checked, its the Israeli military versus Arab militia groups...Tanks and nukes vs. rocks and RPGs. Who do you think stands a better chance of winning?

Let's see...Where have the Israelis assaulted their Palestinian neighbors?



Of personal interest was the upswing of attacks against non-combatant Palestinians by both the Israeli military as well as Israeli civilians who are illegally residing in the Palestinian West Bank.


www.zmag.org...

Israel attacks on Palestine
Brief history of Israel and Palestine with maps

Notice its not just the Arabs who are doing the invading my friend.



Originally posted by US Monitor
The facts are there for all to see that the Arabs practice their hatred of Israel daily. The truth is there for all to see.



Arabs practice their hate of Israel, and Israel practices their hate of the Arabs. Its a two-way street with atrocities happening on both sides. You are not looking at this from a Palestinian civilian with no interest in war. You are only seeing the militants, and trust me on this one, there are militants abound on both sides of this conflict.

I could go about finding terrorist attacks started by Hezbollah and Hamas on Israel, but that would not be covering both sides of the story. You seem only interested in defending Israel.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to the topic at hand...Iran is finishing what Israel started with its nuclear program.

Maybe if they didn't lie (or neglect to tell anyone or sign a nuclear arms treaty) there wouldn't be the issue of Iran's own nuclear program.

Iran has stated it wants to wipe the current Israel regime off the map, but has not made any attacks on the civilian populace. Sounds like they hate the government, just like everybody else.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


Uhmm yep.. But you didn't retaliate after Israeli forces hit you, didn't you? Noooo.. The U.S. government let the U.S.S. Liberty be sacrificed for some strange reason.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


Your not to informed. Palestine was a region in ancient past history not a country. Palestine as a region encompassed most of the mid-east as we see it today. Israel has been there for 3000 years. Do your home work before you follow the main stream. ATS is about denning Ignorance, However many people forget that when it comes to the true history of Israel and how the Arab immigrants who came and wont leave Israel just like the Mexicans in the U.S. were called Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians before in the 70s when Arafat decide to concoct the palliation cause.
If you want to know the real truth about how old Israel is when you don't believe the bible just read about ancient Roman history. The only older country than Israel is Egypt and thats a true fact that not one person on earth can prove.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Extralien
 


I will try to look up the "how it worked out for you" but the point is as the statement below your original goes, Imagine you are a house in the middle of New York City and everything else around you is the enemy. Not just an imagined enemy but an enemy that has proclaimed itself as one that will do everything in its power to destroy you. Would you try to defend your home?
Nucs are about deterrence, Israel uses them as a deterrent the surrounding Countries would use them, they have no need for a Nuclear Deterrent. That is really all I have to say about that. It is the way it is.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Sky watcher

Your not to informed. Palestine was a region in ancient past history not a country. Palestine as a region encompassed most of the mid-east as we see it today. Israel has been there for 3000 years. Do your home work before you follow the main stream. ATS is about denning Ignorance, However many people forget that when it comes to the true history of Israel and how the Arab immigrants who came and wont leave Israel just like the Mexicans in
the U.S. were called Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians before in the 70s when Arafat decide to concoct the palliation cause.
If you want to know the real truth about how old Israel is when you don't believe the bible just read about ancient Roman history. The only older country than Israel is Egypt and thats a true fact that not one person on earth can prove.


The land currently called Israel (historic Israel as opposed to 'biblical' Israel) was called Canaan and Israel was actually a subset of Canaanite culture.

What recent archeology suggests is:

en.wikipedia.org...

Despite the long regnant model that the 'Canaanites' and Israelites were people of fundamentally different culture, archaeological data now casts doubt on this view. The material culture of the region exhibits numerous common points between Israelites and 'Canaanites' in the Iron I period (ca. 1200-1000). The record would suggest that the Israelite culture largely overlapped with and derived from 'Canaanite' culture... In short, Israelite culture was largely Canaanite in nature. Given the information available, one cannot maintain a radical cultural separation between Canaanites and Israelites for the Iron I period."


..and

Genetic research using Y-chromosome haploid analysis has identified a Phoenician genetic marker (a so-to-speak "Canaanite gene") among modern Lebanese populations, including among Maronite Christians and Shiite Muslims, especially near the coast.[38] Initial findings show that the modern Lebanese gene pools comprise indigenous Canaanites, followed by immigration waves from Arabs, Crusader Europeans, and Seljuk Turks.


So, in a nutshell they are essentially one in the same people. They are basically fighting over small discrepancies in mythology.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 11:42 PM
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I always hear about the Israelis side of the story but never hear the Palestinians side of the story. If they really want peace why doesn't Israel become a bi-national state and give equal rights to the Palestinians.

And I've always wondered who the indigenous people are in the Middle East region because the Israelis look different than all the people from the countries that surround them.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by UScitizen
And I've always wondered who the indigenous people are in the Middle East region because the Israelis look different than all the people from the countries that surround them.


They do?



posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 12:05 AM
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in my knowledge, during WW!! jewist were oppressed by nazi and they must be dispersed all over the world. after that ,jewist decided to go back middle east which is the place that their ancestor acclaimed their homeland. but in fact, in history, its arabian tribe who lived there and adopted the jewist ancestor who was vagrant to there from egypt(?).

zionists back to middle east under the UK's protection from the attack by arabian. so isreal exists.

isreali and arabian share the same holy city, Jerusalem. their religion also come down from the same root, seems like this, i am not sure of it.

bible explains this more clearly.



posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 12:13 AM
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Err...mind if I chime in?

IF the argument here is whether or not Iran should have nukes, perhaps the bigger argument should be if ANYONE should have nukes? In this world of "surgical strikes" and "selective engagement", just maybe nukes have run the route of bio and chemical weapons, i.e., They're too big, too obvious, too indiscriminate...in other words, they're yesterdays weapons.

Keep making fighter jets which look more and more like Ferarris, APCs which can role over from an IED explosion and still deliver troops unscathed, keep shielding the worlds troops in armor you can slap with shrapnel from a Howitzer round (all you have to replace is the poor guy's fatigue jacket.) And if the countries of the world want to keep slapping each other around until one or the other is bankrupt, so be it.

As far as whether or not Israel has a right to exist, let's keep in mind that in "not so ancient history", a fair portion of Europe was Muslim. Should Spain give back Seville? Better yet, how about handing over Portugal? As I recall, they were completely Muslim at one time.

My point being, of course, is history's wierd that way. England wouldn't be England without the Roman invasion...saxon invasion...Norman invasion...(I think they were invaders, anyway) and if anyone should appreciate that, It's the Arab nations. I'd LOVE to visit England...sorry...can't say the same for Saudi Arabia.

Maybe they just need looser pants.



posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 12:19 AM
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This thread isn't about Israeli history, but if you wish to enter a discussion fine.

Israel hasn't been around for about 3000 years. I don't know where you get your information. The word is denying not denning.

The 'true' history if Israel...Wow. Arabs and 'Jews' are both Semitic peoples, essentially the same tribe. 'Arabs' didn't come to Israel, they were there before it was founded.

I don't believe the bible and I don't believe all the Romans say either. Israel is not the oldest country in the world, try looking up ancient African and Asian history.

Doesn't look like you're that informed.

------------------------------------------

Now back to the topic at hand...

As a previous poster commented, should any country have nukes? It was protection during the cold war due to mutual destruction, but now any fringe group can obtain a nuke if they decide to find a rogue nation crazy (and poor) enough to sell them one.



posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by UScitizen
And I've always wondered who the indigenous people are in the Middle East region because the Israelis look different than all the people from the countries that surround them.


Perhaps they look different because, according to the following reference, most Israelis, genetically, aren't even really from the ME, they're of Asiatic Mongolian genetic stock.



The Rothschilds claim that they are Jewish, when in fact they are Khazars. They are from a country called Khazaria, which occupied the land locked between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea which is now predominantly occupied by Georgia. The reason the Rothschilds claim to be Jewish is that the Khazars under the instruction of the King, converted to the Jewish faith in 740 A.D., but of course that did not include converting their Asiatic Mongolian genes to the genes of the Jewish people.

You will find that approximately 90% of people in the world today who call themselves Jews are actually Khazars, or as they like to be known, Ashkenazi Jews. These people knowingly lie to the world with their claims that the land of Israel is theirs by birthright, when in actual fact their real homeland is over 800 miles away in Georgia.
(Emphasis mine)

So, next time you hear an Israeli Prime Minister bleating about the so-called persecution of the Jews, consider this, every Prime Minister of Israel has been an Ashkenazi Jew. Therefore when all these Prime Ministers have curried favour with the West for their re-establishment of a Jewish homeland, they have knowingly and deliberately lied to you, as they were never from that region, and they well know it, because it is they who call themselves Ashkenazi Jews.
The History of the House of Rothschild



posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 01:46 AM
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Israel is overlooked, Pakistan is overlooked, there are other reasons for the Bush Bomb Iran agenda, and multiple reasons:

1) Iran scientists developed a method of extracting uranium from low grade uranium ore using a bacteria which reduces the cost of extraction to about 1% of conventional methods. What do you think this does to the value of high grade ores?

2) The international bankers still want to rid the world of Islam because of the Koran's forbidding of the charging of compound interest.

3) Next to Saudi Arabia, Iran has the worlds largest reserves of conventional crude (though they are already past peak production).

The thing is for the 500 billion on the books that we spent on this war (not counting the 1.5 trillion off the books), we could have replaced the energy equivalent of all of Iraq's oil production several times over with clean renewable resources that wouldn't deplete.

But if we did that, the oil companies wouldn't make any money and neither would the international bankers which finance them.

I suspect too that Israel, in our absence might get along better with it's neighbors than they do. I don't think the oil money injected into the region is doing good things for it.

[edit on 12/2/2007 by Nookster]



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