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Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

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posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by JRCrowley

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by bigbert81
 


Please, spare us. If you've ever been around people who "put in work," you really have no idea what you're talking about. You really, really don't. If you think they care about police or the people inside the house they don't. They care about getting that loot and that is all. They have no regard for other parties involved and murder may have been overkill, but sometimes bad people have to die. It's what humans do. Sorry that sounds harsh, but it's reality. Deal with it.


You're an idiot. Humans also take care of each other, love each other and respect each other. Killing people for stealing is just stupid. America sure has fallen into the gutter.


You must have missed my other 10 posts in this same discussion. This wasn't a good outcome for anybody, but if you expect to break into someone's home and not have to deal with the worst outcome, you obviously shouldn't be breaking into a person's home. Crime carries heavy repercussions, my friend, and death is definitely one of them. This case is very simple, and has a very simple in the sense of "cause and effect." The death of these two men were unnecessary, but humans die. We live and die, a very relative process if you ask me. I was simply stating that there's nothing we can do to bring them back to life, and bitching and moaning especially won't help.

Some of you are asking for Horn's head, but what good is that going to do? Eye for an eye? This situation has already taken the lives of two men and will ultimately affect the lives of many more people. Our petty little arguments within this thread aren't helping anybody anywhere. We're making counter argument after counter argument with no conclusion in sight. This is a case of individual morality. It's obvious that we all believe differently and that's where the line should be drawn on the subject. Bickering back and forth is useless, and if you don't see that, I don't know what to tell you. We're talking 26 pages of useless fighting, over something we have no control over whatsoever. I say we stitch our lips and let the court of Texas decide this man's outcome.

Simple and plain.




posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 04:46 AM
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Sorry folks I've said I wouldnt post here anymore. I get irritated and angry reading this thread and I don't know why. I think it's because I hate to see so many people hating on others and admiring someone who is a cold hearted murderer. You don't kill people with a shotgun, blow their heads off and splatter body parts all over the backyard and then sit down and watch TV. It shouldn't happen in our society. Maybe in Texas, but not in the rest of the world. I don't care if it's racial, hate crime, protection, or whatever else.


here's the situation. If you worked at Walmart doing security you know that kids from ages 15-21 go in there and steal. Some of them take DVD's, electronics, clothing, or whatever else. it's a crime to steal yes. So you have NEVER heard of a security guy shooting someone after leaving walmart with private property. Even so they are watching these kids doing it on camera and follow them in the store and confront them. they go to the phone, call the cops and arrest the kids, call the parents.

the kids went into private property, stole, and walked out the front door. so if we were to allow a redneck man with a shotgun from texas to kill people randomly for stealing, why wouldn't it be allowed at walmarts accross the country? simple. because people are not crazy like this sick and disturbed "Hero" from Texas.

Conclusion. he should be prosecuted and jailed for 5 years and the FBI should look into his past and search his home front to back.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


For one you do not know what this guy is doing period....He may not have a clear concious you do not know what he feels or what he is doing...Even a soldier in war kills someone and doesnt have a clear concious that is his job....

Another thing why are you consistantly trieing to make theives look like saints??? Are you saying it is perfectly ok for anyone to steal??? Havnt you heard of armed robbery??? Do you stick up for the guy that goes in and shoots the clerk for a few dollars aswell??? And then blame the clerk??? It doesnt make any sence.....



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by Sentinel 1
Do you stick up for the guy that goes in and shoots the clerk for a few dollars aswell??? And then blame the clerk??? It doesnt make any sence.....


Did I ever say it was ok to shoot someone? I've never said such thing, please don't put words in my mouth. I said, that most of these guys who steal are uneducated, young and they think it's no big deal to do this. Do we even know how old these guys that got shot were? Please don't tell me you never met anyone who hasn't stole something from a store, because I won't believe you. the point is, you can't shoot everyone who's out there stealing. if that was allowed we would have daily shootings at walmarts, because these guys steal stuff everyday.

No more comments.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


not to make light of the topic much but,

imagine if walmart guards DID start shooting theives, or anyone else for that matter..bet theft would go down a lot real fast.


[/bad humor]



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


not to make light of the topic much but,

imagine if walmart guards DID start shooting theives, or anyone else for that matter..bet theft would go down a lot real fast.


[/bad humor]



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by gps777
 


I may be wrong but I am guessing you have never fired a shotgun if you have then you know that there is a little more to it then just aiming and pulling the trigger shotguns have multiple pieces of shot in inside (shotgun! get it) each shell that spreads out as you fire in many shotguns you can use a choke to control this in some shotguns very effectively but depending on the distance from the muzzle to the target the length of the barrel and whether a choke was used or not it could be very hard to isolate a particular part of the body and hit just that target your talking about a pattern the size of a baseball minimum and there really is no maximum.. (in free space terms)

Put all that together and include aiming at a person which almost nobody wants to do and consider the amount of pressure and stress and you have an off target shot so for all we know he could have aimed for the legs and under pressure been a very poor shot, he could have been at a large distance (for a shotgun) and or both.

So again I am not condoning the killing of thieves but when you break into someones house you put your life in your own hands... and that is a fact..

Respectfully,
GEO

[edit on 12/5/2007 by geocom]



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by jedimiller
Do we even know how old these guys that got shot were?


Those Houston papers place them at 38 and 30.

Glad to see all Texans lumped into a group of killers. At least a few states have similar laws. Using that logic I can assume most other states condone stealing and many other crimes.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by Sentinel 1
reply to post by Mr. Pele Pele
 



What makes you think he has shot a person before....I am sure he would be sitting in a prison if he was doing what you are insinuating..Remember this was not a random shooting....He shot people that where robbing his neighbors home....He didnt just go out and commit a random killing here was a reason.....Which is why we keep going around in circles on this ....If these guys where not breaking and entering which is a crime no matter how you put it....We could use any number of scenarios on this including maybe this guy thought the robbers killed his neighbors....Also you do not know if these guys rushed him aswell....That would cause anyone to shoot....Even a cop.....You wouldnt want them to get the gun from you and turn it on you.....



The way he decided to shoot these fools, that's what. I know quite a few people who have shot, even killed people, and not been to prison for it. It's not exactly a utopia.


You keep circling around the fact that he had no business killing people for robbing his neighbor's spot. And if he thought they killed his neighbors, why the HELL would he risk his life and go outside when he could have stayed inside? Damn, use common sense sometimes.

He shot one of the dudes in the yard. He shot the other one as he ran away. Yeah, he's in real danger shooting an unarmed man as he runs away.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Damocles
reply to post by jedimiller
 


not to make light of the topic much but,

imagine if walmart guards DID start shooting theives, or anyone else for that matter..bet theft would go down a lot real fast.


[/bad humor]


The other thing that would go down is Wal-Mart's bottom line. Folks would completely stop shopping there and Wal-Mart would go out of business. Why? Sometimes people shoplift without intending to. I'm sure many people here have had the experience of unintentionally heading out of a store with product without paying for it. Getting outside, realizing the mistake and going back into the store to pay for the product or placing it back on the shelves. Ever take kids shopping only to realize when everybody is packed into the car that one of them never put the Matchbox or candy bar back on the shelves in the store like you told them to? There are so many situations where a retail security guard could make a mistake that that's the reason why deadly force is prohibited by corporate retail establishments. Too many unknown factors when observing customers handling product. A shoplifter is not even considered a shoplifter UNTIL they exit the store. So many guards are trained to prevent customers from leaving the store without paying for merchandise to reduce the chances of a physical or lethal confrontation outside of stores. Not too long ago, maybe 6 or 7 years ago, it was common for guards to chase down shoplifters after they left stores with merchandise. It was common for them to beat up the shoplifters, and it was common for the guards to also sustain injuries. And it definitely was common enough, though not too widespread, for some guards to loose their lives to stabbings or getting shot, and then of course the retailers would be sued for wrongful death by the families of the deceased. Many retailers do not even allow security guards to manhandle shoplifters anymore because of civil lawsuits brought against the retailers by the suspects who have been beaten up, the security guards who have been beaten up, customers/innocent bystanders who were caught in the middle of a confrontation between security and would-be shoplifters, and, again, families of critically injured guards and guards who died in the line of duty. So maybe on the surface it sounds like sympathy for thieves but the truth is that it's beneficial for all concerned that deadly force not be used in those situations. Though, I will add that, aside from corporate retailers, mom and pop retailers in urban, suburban, and rural areas have a very different approach to dealing with shoplifter, robbers, and burglars.

If anyone has ever managed corporate retail like I have, then you also know this to be true.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:42 AM
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This is NOT an issue of self defense... the man himself was not threatened and his house was not being robbed.

Granted the robbers were most certainly in the wrong but so wasn't this man.

This is the problem with the so-called 2nd amendment debate... if we are a society of laws then the laws have to take precedence as opposed to individual citizens taking it into their own hands.... no society where that happens is worth saving.

If the man's home was the one being broken into and he was the one being threatened, then he would have had every right to defend his home... as it is he broke the law just as surely as the robbers did.

The man is no hero. Stop cheapening the word.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:45 AM
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The death penalty for burglary is insane. The mad dog murderer who did this should be locked up forever. He WANTED to KIOLL..and folund a way to do it that gave him some excuse. The cops said DON'T..but he went outside and killed two human beings . He is a cold blloded murderer who will no doubt get away due to stupid laws that place objects above peoples lives.

Sure, if the guys were armed and threatening him, let let them have it. But UNarmed and running away? Thats murder no matter what way you look at it. Sick that anone could defend this scummy killer.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 10:27 AM
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I like he debate this has created though I don't agree with many that I read I have read them none the less

What I don't like is how divided we have become because of the Race issue
it is really sad to think that one or two modern incidents can polarize an entire community , Country or world for that matter.

I think we are all smarter than this Maybe instead of celebrating white power or Black power or purple power (no offense if anyone out there is purple) we should just celebrate our heritage together yes we are from different cultures but I would rather learn about others than be a hater or challenger of another persons ethnic background..

If you want to hear something really odd to a lot of people I live just 20-30 minutes south of St. Louis MO (gateway to the west)
and I never saw a person of any other color that I can remember until I was about 8-9 years old we played in a baseball tournament together talked made friends and that was the end of that (this was back when you could still lose a game as a kid and i fyou did no trophy for you)

anyway we can all overcome this but we have to work together like MLK suggested (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson need not apply) he was a truly great man not like those that pretend to continue his work today

Respectfully
GEO



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 11:18 AM
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Good for Joe Horn!!!!! We need more people like this. The two guys that broke into his neighbors house deserve what they got. If they got away with what they took they could of ruined his neighbors lifeves for years by taking personal information alone. Not to mention if someone was in that house they could have very well beaten them to death with that crowbar. If they got away that could have come back to the same neighborhood and hit another house and possibly killed someone than. In a world where everyone turns there head to a crime, I'll say it again, good for Joe Horn I wish my neighbors were like him. Also, the New Black Panther Party can go to Hell for defending these two #s. My hats off to his neighbors and local supporters for standing by his side and driving Quanell X out of the neighborhood. Great video of it below..
www.filecabi.net...

"Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by jedimiller
the kids went into private property, stole, and walked out the front door.

so if we were to allow a redneck man with a shotgun from texas to kill people randomly for stealing,

why wouldn't it be allowed at walmarts accross the country?


No... you see... now...

It is allowed.

Look for executions at the "walmart" exit in 2008.

The castle laws are there to protect corporations because corporations are, by law, people.

just watch...

some natural disaster will come rolling through... walls will get blown down

and heavily armed guards in riot gear will stand between the masses and their daily low cost addictions.

people will die.

legally.

The case of the texas hero sets the tone.

Its ok. Nothing to see here. Just criminals getting what was coming.

I am,

Sri Oracle




note...

check my post on page 25 for "SB 378 A BILL relating to the use of force or deadly force in defense of a person." enacted in texas september of this year.

also check my post on page 29 as you may question your perception of robbery as an execution worthy infringment granting criminal and civil immunity to the executioner.

What if? What about... ?? He could've been...??

dead.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:45 PM
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On the face of it, Joe overstepped the line. THe question is whether or not the burglars posed a threat. If they were armed -- and there were two of them -- then there is a case for self-defence. But if they were unarmed, or burdened down by loot, and Mr. Horn had announced his intention to kill them, it's Murder One, even in Texas. I am a licensed gun carrier; I train with my weapon, and I will shoot, and shoot to kill, if I must. But shotgunning unarmed men, or even armed men who cannot access their weapons, especially if one started out with intent, is still murder. Sorry. If other details prove mitigating circumstances, then it's a different story. but Horn's announcement of intent will make it hard for him. Moral of the story: shoot first, talk later.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 07:03 PM
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Just thought I would give a recent update that I just heard about (for anyone who cares LOL) that the 2 robbers were 1. here illegally and 2. had criminal records.....one was deported after serving a lenghty prison sentence then came back here illegally.

I dont think they were breaking in looking for xmas presents for their kids.

Great guys


Anyways, carry on. LOL

*looking for link*

[edit on 5-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I'd like to know what the difference between shooting someone for thievery and stoning someone to death for adultery is. Is there a difference? Are we as "backwards" as these Middle Eastern countries we vilify?



I'll repost the original question.

What is the difference between an individual using capital punishment for theft or burglary and using capital punishment to execute an individual for committing adultery? Of for naming a teddy bear Muhammud?


Your talking about other countries with a different culture, religion and laws, wihich are based on their religion and has been that way for thousands of years. We are not that way, our laws are voted on and some pass and some fail. And I would say this guy acted within the law. And if there is any law you don't like you can try and chage it. And there is another issue they might also be illegal aliens from Columbia. So they shouldn't have been here in the first place.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 07:42 PM
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whooops. just noticed someone else brought up what the castle doctrine ^^^

[edit on 5-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:26 PM
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In the sight of God, real human progress is moral, not material; its real measure is possible in the life Hereafter, not in this world. -Khurram Murad



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