reply to post by DeadFlagBlues
Well honestly RP, it is what it is.
I assure you the situation is not what it is.. it is highly complex for one, with countless dynamics. To sum it all into "one problem" you again
ignore the true situation as to why there are so many problems between these two people.
What it boils down to on this topic is "what's real." Not hypothetically "could be." These two nations were just talking about peace, and
unifying a people. Less than a week passes and now Israel is not only ready, but vocalizing their intentions? That doesn't make sense to me, and that
kind of immediate posture right after a peace talk looks like blatant aggression, not unification. I know with the current state that Gaza is in under
the control of the Hamas doesn't make Israel too secure, but those are the events that have transpired due to their lack of reason in the past.
It can be said another way as well.
Israel and Palestine just sat down and called each other friends in Annapolis. Then Palestine started throwing mortars and rockets into Israel
without provocation right after a peace accord. Now Israel is going to retaliate.
The only truth of the matter in the entire situation is this: Peace talks don't work. They never do. They never will. Especially when a third
party as clueless as America is trying to set the standards.
The main problem with Palestine that is holding back any possible dialogue is the fact that these little Islamic militants keep acting on their own
accord and have no direct leadership within the government. So Palestine says Peace. Israelis say peace. Then some punk group fires a rocket
anyways and the whole thing falls apart and Israel invades again.
Is that Palestine's fault? Absolutely not. Hell Israel is at fault for targeting infrastructure and means of travel for the Palestinians to ever
establish a true connection of its peoples over its territories.
I've heard report after report of "zoning laws" that Israel enforces on a weekly basis that are creating more and more Palestinian refugees. They
bring USA supplied Cat backhoes with a military escort and "rezone" portions of land. This land they're "rezoning" are the inhabited homes of
I would love to read the report. The only things I have seen close to these actions are 1. The demolishion of terrorist houses. You bomb Israel,
Israel knocks down all of your families homes with bull dozers. Sounds cruel, I find it to be an aggressive plan and well deserved. 2. When Israel
pulls out of an area they had to force their own people out of the land. The settlements left behind had well established farms, orchards, vineyards,
sometimes million dollar houses. Israel burns and tears down everything, so that Israeli citizens do not have to see their hard work utilized by
Palestinians squatters. Israel does not, or at least I have never heard of this, tear down part of a city to "re-zone" just for the sake of it.
Hamas is the only line of defense when it comes to Palestinian rights.
Hammas was elected in primarily for their humanitarian record. Sounds odd, an American classified terrorist group also being known as a humanitarian
group eh? When they elected them in, primarily in smaller towns, some citizens rejoiced it was the first time in several years a mayor showed up for
work! I don't think they realized the outcry from the West when doing it, or simply could give a rats arse about what we think. Hammas exploited
what they where given and instead of focusing on the people like they used to, put more effort into its military wings, which it quite often has no
control over. The result was civil war, when political leaders decided they wanted to be the next arafat.
Those people who don't want any part of that circle of violence try and leave, but are met with resistance from surrounding nations as you've
This is imo the saddest part about the situation. So many do want out, and many actually want Israeli citizenship, since they are a conquered people
the UN requires Israel to give them fair rights. As said before, Israel will never accept a Islamic majority, and very few Palestinians ever get
Israeli citizenship. Some do however. And some even enlist as full time soldiers. However the situation is not the average guys fault. Is it
ever? When Palestinians move into another nations territory, like say Jordan the political and military leaders simply cause hell for the host
nation. Maybe its because where ever they are they are treated as second class humans, even in fellow Islamic countries.
They crawl back into the refugee camps
They are called Refugee camps. I am not sure why exactly..
If you saw the pictures of the camp that was surrounded by Lebanese forces (surprise, Muslim nation attacking Palestinians
) these camps are
Very dirty, broken down cities. Most of the inhabitants where born in these cities. They are more like city states within a state.
I am in hope that Israel will see it has engaged in another unpopular war, and one of which cannot be brought to a conclusion.
Israel has a long history of not careing what the West thinks, even spiting the Americans. I honestly don't think it even phases them as far as
morally when they attack Palestine. Where Palestine has built up hostility for suppression, Israel remembers home raids in the Israeli hinterlands,
and the bus bombings. Long deep seeded anger on both sides.
This situation is undeniably human and easy to dissect from an outside perspective, but none of us are in their shoes. Not a single person on these
boards could possibly know what it feels like to be faced with the kind of dire situations Palestinians and Israelis face every single day. We should
all definitely feel blessed that we're not.
Couple years ago now I watched a special report on like 20/20 or something. It was about these kids from Israel and Palestine going to sumer camp
together. The objective was to make the next generation more friendly and human, so thousands of kids have gone to these camps. At first no one is
friends with the other side. Then they start talking. There are a lot of co-op missions the kids do to build trust.
By the end they where all friends, and when sat down in front of a camera at the end of camp a girl and a boy they simply said "Ya, we are great
friends, but when I get older I will still join the Israeli army, and not think twice about shooting a Palestinian" and the Palestinian replied he
would expect nothing less and he would probably join a militia to fight for his people.
I don't think we in the West in our comfy arm chairs and high tech computers could ever honestly understand what its like to live with real problems.
Their nationalism is strong on both sides, probably the two most stubborn peoples in the world.
You have to admire the Palestinians in this respect though .. relentlessly they stand up to a giant regardless of the outcome, and the outcome is