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F15`s grounded again

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posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:34 AM
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Dec 10/07: The F-15 A-Ds remain grounded. A USAF update informs us that throughout the Air Force, maintainers have found cracks in the upper longerons of 8 F-15s so far: 4 from Air National Guard 173rd Fighter Wing, Kingsley Field, OR; 2 from USAF 18th Wing, Kadena Air Base, Japan; 1 from 325th Fighter Wing, Tyndall AFB, FL; and 1 from ANG 131st Fighter Wing, St. Louis, MO.




posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 07:19 AM
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So basically that info is the exact same i posted on this forum 2 days ago. Its kool though no worries just make sure you read the post before yours. I make the same mistake lots



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 07:35 AM
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*sigh* i`ll just go back to reading properly


nearly up to 10% now



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Well on the subject of back lash on the fighter from international buyers this may be a sign. The Suadis have moved forward with the looking for a Sniper ATP Supplementation for F-15S.


On Dec 7/07 the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency announced [PDF] Saudi Arabia's request for 40 of Lockheed Martin's AN/AAQ-33 SNIPER Advanced Targeting Pods, which would replace the older LANTIRN twin-pod systems installed on Saudi F-15S Strike Eagles


www.defenseindustrydaily.com...



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 05:13 PM
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The Air Force has begun round four of inspections. These will require 18 hours for A and C models, and 22.5 hours for B and D models. Of 442 A-D models, 435 underwent the first inspection, with 7 in the depot. 425 of those have also undergone second inspection. The third inspection comes after more cracks and damage were found in the incident aircraft wreckage. Of the 425 inspected, 8 have been found so far with cracking and damage in the longerons.

Of the F-15Es 222 of 224 have been inspected with two in the depot. All F-15Es are fully cleared for flight operations.

It's slightly confusing because this is round four of inspections, but the third TCTO to come out on the cracking and damage.


A fourth wave of inspections has begun on US Air Force Boeing F-15 Eagles as it widens the search for fatigue cracking. So far cracks have been found in the fuselage longerons of eight F-15C fighters.

This will be the third time USAF F-15A-D fighters have gone through checks, but even if cleared they will not return flight until after investigation of the 2 November crash of an F-15C due to structural failure is completed.

F-15E Strike Eagles have been returned to flight, and Air Combat Command says 222 of its 224 E models have been inspected and cleared for operations. The remaining two are in depot maintenance.

Source



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
nearly up to 10% now


Umm… 8 out of 442 is not "nearly up to" ten percent, in fact, it's no where near. And that number (8) is not likely to increase the amount needed for the figure to reach ten percent. Considering the age, use and number of flight ours on those birds it's quite frankly amazing the number is so low.


[edit on 14-12-2007 by WestPoint23]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 05:16 PM
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www.washingtonpost.com...

Structural Flaws May Ground Older F-15s Indefinitely


Air Force inspectors have discovered major structural flaws in eight older-model F-15 fighters, sparking a new round of examinations that could ground all of the older jets into January or beyond, senior Air Force and defense officials said


uh-oh

interesting discussion in that article -


Some outside analysts have said that the F-15 problems can be fixed and that the extra F-22s are unnecessary. "I don't suspect that the Air Force is lying when it says it has discovered stress fractures in the longerons of the F-15s," said Winslow Wheeler, an expert at the Center for Defense Information and a longtime opponent of purchasing additional F-22s. "But there's no big deal about that. Fix it."



where is this going?



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Well we got more info on who is covering what airspace. And as I said before it looks like the Canadians at the very least are stepping in over Alaska along side the 22's.


created by the F-15 A-D grounding. With the F-15s in Massachusetts out of commission, the Vermont Air National Guard (ANG) is covering the whole Northeast. The Oregon ANG's fighters are grounded, so the California Air National Guard is standing watch for the entire West Coast plus slices of Arizona and Nevada. To meet that need, the Fresno, CA based 144th Fighter Wing has had to borrow F-16s from bases in Indiana and Arizona and trim back training.

The Minnesota ANG is manning sites in Hawaii, while the Illinois ANG covers Louisiana. In Alaska, the new F-22 Raptors are stepping in – and so are Canadian CF-18s, which have intercepted several Russian bombers near Alaska in recent weeks.

www.defenseindustrydaily.com...



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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More news from flight global on a release of 60% of the F-15's for flight!





About 60% of the US Air Force's fleet of 442 Boeing F-15A-D Eagle fighters have been cleared to return to flight after more than two months of stand-downs and structural inspections.....

"Additionally, approximately 40% of inspected aircraft have at least one longeron that does not meet blueprint specifications," says ACC. These aircraft have longerons that are thinner in places than specified in the original manufacturing drawings......

Because of the prolonged grounding, about 75% of US Air Force and Air National Guard F-15A-D pilots have lost their currency. "Another week and it would have been 100%," says ACC. The F-15 grounding has been the longest for any USAF post-war jet fighter.


About time and good to see that the USAF still has faith in the airframe. Perhaps the RAAF may still want to look into the F-15 option or idea brought up in another forum. The implications from the grounding on currency is a substantial one. Hopefully the increase back to normal flight tempo goes well and the longerons are able to be monitored from here on in with small implications on the airframes and no accidents from here on in.

The feat that has been accomplished by base maintenance personnel is huge and the almost 24 hr 7 days a week tempo is finally paying off.

www.flightglobal.com...

www.af.mil...


[edit on 9-1-2008 by Canada_EH]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 06:19 AM
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Interestingly, and probably predictably, neither article mentions whether those aircraft cleared to fly have any restrictions on their flight envelope.

The Winged Wombat



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by The Winged Wombat
 


The possible wide spread publication that the early 15s can only do 3 quarters or half of what they were designed to do isn't good for Boeing, USAF or ANG. The likely hood that there is more restrictions on the flight enevelope etc is quite high. But with a number like 40% that would need rebuild the standards are high for longerons and if there is restrictions I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be much more then is already in place.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Well we have a answer as to why the 9 F-15s that where found with forward longeron cracks. Its seems to be a problem in manufacturing.


Cracks were found in nine other F-15s where machining during manufacture had reduced the thickness of the longeron web below blueprint specification or where there is surface roughness that could cause stress concentration.


And the go on to expand that the 40% that are still grounded may not fly again. Then they mention the 16s and A-10s but personally they need to be more concerned with the KC-135s which are in a much worse position. Though it is true they are not subject to the same extreme g-forces etc.


"I have a fleet that is 100% fatigued, and 40% of that has bad parts. The long-term future of the F-15 is in question," says Gen John Corley, commander of Air Combat Command. "The problem is systemic and goes beyond the F-15," he says, citing fatigue issues with A-10s and F-16s.







While the USAF has not decided which, if any, aircraft will be repairs, Warner Robins is manufacturing an initial batch of 15 longerons at a cost of $15,000. Owen says replacement of the longeron in an aircraft will cost $250,000.


Im assuming that is minus man hours and down time etc. Investigators say the crack started on the underside of the longeron, working its way upwards and outwards through the over-thin web until it reached the outer “posts”, which carry the bulk of the forward fuselage loads.

www.flightglobal.com...


[edit on 11-1-2008 by Canada_EH]



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 03:48 AM
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www.defense-aerospace.com...

a bit more alarmist this one (same info as above) the reporting *suggests* that the 40% with shoddy parts may never fly again lockheed used substandard parts to make more money


While 260 US Air Force F-15A to –D fighters have returned to flight, over 40% of the fleet have faulty parts and may not fly again.


www.military.com...


More troubling, however, were the findings of a parallel examination that determined as many as 163 of the workhorse F-15s also have the flawed beams, called longerons. The aircraft remain grounded as the Air Force tries to determine how broad the problem is and whether fixes should be made. Another 19 of the aircraft have yet to be inspected and also remain grounded.


theres your 40% - 163 aircraft with faulty longerons - and as all the articles say - it will cost $250,000 per aircraft to fix 1 problem - and how long till other parts go bad on these 25 year old aircraft (thats 40 million dollars to fix the problem caused by lockmart)


makes you wonder what corners are being made on the F35 to make more money - since the US are allready said they won`t be buying as many as first thought and lockmart have allready used there `contingency` fund after cocking it all up so far.

[edit on 13/1/08 by Harlequin]



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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boeing video of the breakup of the 02/11/07 accident based upon flight data.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 08:49 AM
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This next more basic CG video puts the break up into context and the aggressive ACM that where taking place.


On 2 November, 2007, a Missouri Air National Guard Boeing F-15C had just entered a mock dogfight when the pilot felt something was wrong with his aircraft. Seconds later, the Eagle broke in two and the pilot ejected from a tumbling cockpit.

Using HUD camera recordings and other data, the US Air Force has reconstructed the circumstances surrounding the accident, which occurred during routine basic fighter manoeuvre (BFM) training involving four F-15s.

The mishap aircraft, serial number 80-0034 and call sign Mick 2



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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www.foxnews.com...


HONOLULU — A fighter jet among a troubled fleet of F-15s that recently returned to the skies plunged into the ocean Friday, but the pilot ejected in time and was rescued shortly afterward.




holy s**t


if its found to be structural failure - the F15 is doomed.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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According to the article, he lost control and couldn't maintain altitude. This sounds like an engine or flight control malfunction. He was doing a routine training flight near Diamond Head, and was flying under normal conditions, and lost altitude. I'm talking to friends in Hawaii right now, and they're saying that it did NOT break apart in flight according to local sources.

On another note this is the first EVER fighter loss of an aircraft based in Hawaii.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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^^ nice one thanks for the heads up , nice to have someone local and in teh loop



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
He was doing a routine training flight near Diamond Head, and was flying under normal conditions, and lost altitude.



Cause of the crash was being investigated.

Lee said the plane had experienced no problems during a routing training exercise earlier in the day.


So if he wasn't doing ACM its a lot easier to believe that it wasn't a structural failure of any sort. As Zaphod has said all early signs show other wise. Keep us up to date if you could Zaph about what your friends are saying. Thanks Harlequin for the news posting.

I'm wondering though Zaph you mentioned diamond head which I'm familiar with but news and air force sources say he was 60 miles south of Honolulu at the time of crashing. As I understand it diamond head is only 5-10 miles from Hickam at most.




[edit on 2-2-2008 by Canada_EH]



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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Because if you zoom in on Oahu and draw a straight line from the crash site to the green arrow that's east you end up at Diamond Head. It was in the same vicinity where the USS Greenville hit the Ehime Maru a few years ago in a surfacing accident from what I'm being told.

The last time HiANG lost an aircraft was in the 1960s when an F-4 pilot had to eject from his bird due to a fuel malfunction (sorry, I was wrong earlier, it's their second loss). The F-15s were approaching 80,000 accident free hours. The incident aircraft had been doing ACM earlier in the day with no problems, and was on at least its second flight of the day. They were returning towards Honolulu in formation, when the incident pilot reported he lost control of the aircraft and couldn't maintain altitude. He was at the low end of the ejection envelope when he decided it was time to depart the aircraft.

HiANG has been flying against F/A-18E/F Hornets operating out of Kaneohe MCAS, and were scheduled to fly against them until the 20th of Feb. After the incident yesterday all HiANG F-15s were grounded temporarily. They had seven that were still grounded due to longeron issues, and 13 that had been returned to flight before yesterday's accident.

[edit on 2/2/2008 by Zaphod58]



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