Shoot UK teacher, say protesters

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Of course its not all mooslims that are deranged but since there are so many of them, even a small percentage of extremists equals multiple millions of lunatics.

...and the same can be said for Christians, atheists, or "fill in the blank here".

In the Koran, the Prophet Muhammad cites that anyone who insults him should be killed by the observer. This is exactly why these people are getting worked up. But the thing is, the texts of Islam have been interpreted so much over the years that any real meaning the text may have had, are becoming lost. Take Islamic extremists, for example. It is also cited in the Koran that if a Muslim dies defending his religion, he'll be given a special spot in heaven. Yet the Koran completely condemn's any sort of suicide action. Infact, any Muslim to partake in suicide will repeat that same action infinite times. In short, theres a huge crisis with Islam and new stories like this only validate those claims.

Look!

Another "lets shove our beliefs down your throat" thread. It's not unique to Islam, folks. The only difference is: It's not being done rampantly by Christians or Jews as it was done at certain times - long periods - in history.

What I don't understand, and what irks me when I hear "we are a faith of peace" by very few, is that... Why not combat those within your faith and stand up for those that your common sense believes to be in the right? When is the last time you saw a group of Muslims within the Middle East or Europe stand up against one of these hateful protests/riots?

Sure, I've met a few people who are completely embarrassed by what these barbarians would want to do to the world. In fact, I have a very good friend who's Muslim and finds himself completely alienated from his faith by these ghastly reports. Yet, he doesn't feel he can do anything...

His reason? He feels that he is indeed the minority.

My advice:

These folks need to stop thinking so highly of themselves and their religion. Honestly, this is getting completely ridiculous. I'm sick and tired of hearing this bullcrap on the T.V and radio every-single-day. Now it's here on ATS! A place where one should be able to escape into Sci-Fi/Fantasy land.

It's about time a world law was enacted out of pure courtesy to each other:

KEEP. YOUR. FAITH. AT. HOME.

Originally posted by DonosoKEEP. YOUR. FAITH. AT. HOME.

Ah, but what if your faith entails compassion for others? Not all faith is bad, y'know.

My take on this, for what it's worth, is as follows.

I travel in the ME a lot, and have many friends & associates particularly in Jordan and in Iran. I know Saudi & the Gulf States quite well, having lived & worked there & been a frequent guest in people's houses especially in Jiddah.

A militant minority of people throughout the region are to a greater or lesser degree sympathetic to the Wahabist-Jihadist wing of Islam (except in Iran, where despite the cr*p the MSM feeds you, Wahabism is not tolerated). This movement originated in Saudi and has a hard-line & uncompromising attitude to Islam and how it should be enforced and practiced.

Basically, confrontation with western liberalism & 'democratic' systems is at the core of this belief system. The best known exponent in the west is OBL, but he is not the originator nor the spiritual leader: he just has the most money & resources to finance terror attacks in Saudi (the regime there is his sworn enemy, as are the rest of the BL family), Jordan, Egypt, The Yemen & of course internationally ie 9/11 hijack op, bombings in Madrid & Indonesia & most recently on the streets of Pakistan.

OBL lived in Sudan for many years as a guest of the regime, and it's now a major center of Wahabist operatives & sympathizers. This business about the teddy bear is a non-issue to Moslems everywhere. Like all the froth generated over the Danish cartoons last year, this is of absolutely no consequence or interest to any normal, clear-thinking person in Sudan or anywhere else. No-one cares about it per se, as it's trivial & inconsequential.

What is happening here is this.

Wahabists know the western media and its sheep-like ways very well. A non-incident is created specifically as an opportunity to promote the anti-western agenda, to force Moslems to confront the issue & take sides. Manufacture a story, get a few people out on the streets shouting & threatening death to anyone 'insulting Islam' & the western MSM will be out in force, like the unthinking sheep they are, filming and broadcasting it.

There is a strong wahabist element inside the Sudan Govt, and yes, they are directly responsible for the continuing genocide in Darfur.

This strategy serves several objectives. It promotes the idea of an Islam-western culture clash, a life-&-death struggle between alternative belief-systems for humanity. It forces Moslems to 'take sides.' The western MSM plays the game & co-operates with it 100%. Note how you never get any serious analysis of the issue, or what lies behind it.

From the Satanic Verses to the cartoons, to this 'teddy bear scandal' the media-game is being expertly played. The impression constantly given out by the western MSM is that Islam per se is rabid, intolerant & childish in its psychopathic extremism. This is precisely the result that Islamic hardliners want: to generate fear, to get their agenda pushed into the international spotlight, to promote a clash of civilizations.

The teddy bear has nothing to do with it. No-one in Sudan cares about the bear, or about the poor teacher. She's just a 'patsy.'

This story will not even be in the news in a couple of weeks. But watch out for the next non-incident, manipulated into the international MSM by jihadists to promote the conflict between Islam & 'the west'. You'll see another one within 6 months, maybe less. Same strategy, same spin, same result. And again. And again. Watch it, over the next couple of years, and see the pattern.

IMHO, of course.

reply to post by Jim_Kraken


I don't care what your faith entails and neither would people of other beliefs. It almost sounds like you're saying having compassion is limited to a faith.

If you want to practice your faith, go ahead, that's why we all have private properties and private places we can go to just for that. But when a person of faith feels it necessary to limit/force anything upon anyone? You're way out of bounds.

Especially if you're going to judge somebody using your faith that someone else may not even share.

reply to post by Donoso


I'm just saying a lot of people (perhaps most?) have no reason to be as compassionate as they do WITHOUT faith. Their compassion and their faith are inextricably linked, drive their faith from the public square and you have severely limited the world's compassion.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by Jim_Kraken]

Stupid people will fill their children's heads with stupid teachings - the result is a crowd like that. And they in turn will continue the cycle.

What they need is an overdose of information about the world and other people and religions around the world, I recommend Discovery channel.
Fill their heads with information, make them wake up, bombing them just creates more like them

Conspiracy theory : the crowd that wants the teacher shot is supported by CIA , so people in UK are angry on Islam and agree to bomb Iran for example

Originally posted by centurion1211
But so what as far as this poor teacher is concerned. She goes to Sudan to help teach their poor children and if you are correct, they repay her for that with prison and now an attempt to make her a pawn in their dislike of "outsiders".

Still all wrong, for whatever reason is claimed.

I have to agree with you here on this one, repaying her for having a huge heart, going to a foreign country to teach their children, by this sort of behavior is simply uncalled for!

It wasn't even her that named that poor teddy to begin with, it was the school children. She had no clue she would be offending anyone or anything, or I'm most certain she would not have named that poor teddy Muhammed.

Bad enough the poor lady must do 10 more days in prison for such an "offense", but to have riots in the streets over it, is just plain insane in my opinion. If they want their kids to have a British education, I guess they will have to send their children to Great Britain from now on, eh? I bet there won't be many teachers taking that risk again. Who knows what might offend someone next time?

Have a great weekend all!

Peace!
KarmaGurl

Originally posted by Jim_Kraken

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Of course its not all mooslims that are deranged but since there are so many of them, even a small percentage of extremists equals multiple millions of lunatics.

...and the same can be said for Christians, atheists, or "fill in the blank here".

absoloute relativst waffle, there are not states, there are no marches of thousands of people, of a Christian hue, where people are flogged for naming a teddy Jesus.

That sort of equivalence is just moral cowardice, you would need to timewarp several hundred years to find equivalence with these freaks

Mind you, the more I read about this woman, the less and less I have sympathy

"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7122323.stm"


John Gibbons, 27, from Liverpool, said she was "holding up quite well".

He told The Associated Press on Friday: "One of the things my mum said today was that 'I don't want any resentment towards Muslim people'.

"She doesn't want people using her and her case as something to stoke up resentment towards anyone, towards Sudanese people, towards Muslim people or whatever. "



No wonder Islam is such an aggressive religion in the face of such dhimmi behaviour- people stay out of these backward hell holes

reply to post by bovarcher


Thanks for your post. I came on here to have a little rant about this situation but you put things into perspective for me and calmed me down. I cannot still believe that this incident has grown so much though over such a thing as a teddy bear.
Cheers.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I'll vouch for Islam on this one. It just so happens I've met a couple of Muslims and they were some of the kindest and most understanding people I've ever met. The problem here isn't the religion, it's what the people do with the religion. While I feel that Islam, like all religions aside from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, as its flaws. However you'll note that this sort of thing really only seems to be happening in underdeveloped nations where people like to go nuts about just about any issue of the week. Notice how this sort of thing doesn't happen in the United States. New York City's population of Muslims is 4.7%, and yet you don't see extremists marching down Times Square calling for all sorts of bloody messes. Religion is like a tool. It's a beautiful thing when used correctly, but could take your life if misused or abused.

However in this case I agree this makes a good case for sending in SAS.

I tend to agree with this, as far a s I can see this is more to do with a backward, underdeveloped country and the muslim equivilent of chavs who's first response to anything they dislike is to take to the streets and demand violence and a chimps tea party of a govt adhering to a very medieval world view. They are beyond reprehensible and it's a telling fact that much of the condemnation is coming from fellow muslims. This plays into the extremists of both stripes hands, it's exactly what they want, choose sides, you are with us or against us which is why it's crucial to remain level headed and balanced.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I'll vouch for Islam on this one. It just so happens I've met a couple of Muslims and they were some of the kindest and most understanding people I've ever met. The problem here isn't the religion, it's what the people do with the religion. While I feel that Islam, like all religions aside from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, as its flaws. However you'll note that this sort of thing really only seems to be happening in underdeveloped nations where people like to go nuts about just about any issue of the week. Notice how this sort of thing doesn't happen in the United States. New York City's population of Muslims is 4.7%, and yet you don't see extremists marching down Times Square calling for all sorts of bloody messes. Religion is like a tool. It's a beautiful thing when used correctly, but could take your life if misused or abused.

However in this case I agree this makes a good case for sending in SAS.

I tend to agree with this, as far a s I can see this is more to do with a backward, underdeveloped country and the muslim equivilent of chavs who's first response to anything they dislike is to take to the streets and demand violence and a chimps tea party of a govt adhering to a very medieval world view. They are beyond reprehensible and it's a telling fact that much of the condemnation is coming from fellow muslims. This plays into the extremists of both stripes hands, it's exactly what they want, choose sides, you are with us or against us which is why it's crucial to remain level headed and balanced.

In the UK 4% of the population is muslim- we had 52 people butchered on the streets of London in 2005 by Muslims, we have had numerous plots foiled (most recently in Glasgow)- when there are "anti war" marches (ie anti UK/US marches) these rallies attract considerably more Muslims than any march protesting against Islamist violence.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml

40% publicly state their support for shariah law, while a fifth have sympathy for the actions of the bombers (again publicly stated, recent journalistic undercover stories from muslim parts of British towns show these views to be the predominant ones)

You can all pretend that it is "backward" countries that are the problem, I beg to differ- screw global warming, my main concern is in the future when Islam isnt 4% it is maybe 20%, 30% etc- then the #storm really begins.

Originally posted by blueorder
Mind you, the more I read about this woman, the less and less I have sympathy

"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7122323.stm"


John Gibbons, 27, from Liverpool, said she was "holding up quite well".

He told The Associated Press on Friday: "One of the things my mum said today was that 'I don't want any resentment towards Muslim people'.

"She doesn't want people using her and her case as something to stoke up resentment towards anyone, towards Sudanese people, towards Muslim people or whatever. "

Sounds like she's just trying to play safe and not fuel the tension any more?

I mean she's not exactly going to start shouting "I hate Islam!" while she's locked up over there is she...

I had that in mind when I made my post, and I stand by it as I am willing to wager ten pounds sterling that when she is released, and safely back home in the UK, she will come off with the same waffle

Care for a wager- donate to your chosen charity whoever loses?

Originally posted by gps777
If the world heard and saw Muslims standing up against these types of stories instead of seeing and hearing the extremists calling for blood,you wouldn`t have to hear and read so many retarded comments.

Where are the media photo`s showing protests of disagreement to Islamic extremists and they must be out there somewhere if your saying the majority of muslims are against them based on the 31k+ on a forum or are the worlds majority of muslims afraid to have a public voice on such matters in Islamic states in your opinion?

your right all those muslims out there that protest against these acts and so on, how much media attention do they get?

what gets more ratings for a TV channel people shouting Deat death or people voicing concern and the oppasite?

also look around ATS there has been many topics and replies in topics where other members have posted links to sites and news articles on Muslims voicing out aginst fanatics, its a piss take that it has to be repeated in almost every islamic topic because some twits believe that only fantics are out there and no muslim in their right mind stand up.

this is my last reply
i wont bother to reply to stupid replys below where people are starting to get bits from verses from parts of the quran without using the whole verse to justify their ends,

also on a note if i had my way i put the retards and their familes who call for nukes and death with the fantics (from all faiths) on a desert island and see them work it out amungst them selves

[edit on 1-12-2007 by bodrul]

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by Jim_Kraken
...and the same can be said for Christians, atheists, or "fill in the blank here".

absoloute relativst waffle, there are not states, there are no marches of thousands of people, of a Christian hue, where people are flogged for naming a teddy Jesus.

That sort of equivalence is just moral cowardice, you would need to timewarp several hundred years to find equivalence with these freaks

Finally, someone who 'gets it' !

It's a relentless task to keep people's concentration on the topic, time and time again whenever the problems of Islam are criticised, invariably people will come up with "Yeah well Christianity is no better!!" as if it somehow negates the problems in question. It's a right pain in the bum to have to repeat the same things time and time again to those who simply refuse to see the bigger picture.

Even people I know personally, in real life, are the same. It's so that now talking about religion ends in heated arguments, simply because as soon as I mention the "I" word, suddenly christ was a murderer who beat children and drank blood - and it takes little effort to get there.

If I have a problem with a Picasso, pointing out the flaws in a Rembrandt won't change my opinion.

Sheesh..

Good post mate !

Originally posted by blueorder
In the UK 4% of the population is muslim- we had 52 people butchered on the streets of London in 2005 by Muslims, we have had numerous plots foiled (most recently in Glasgow)- when there are "anti war" marches (ie anti UK/US marches) these rallies attract considerably more Muslims than any march protesting against Islamist violence.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml

40% publicly state their support for shariah law, while a fifth have sympathy for the actions of the bombers (again publicly stated, recent journalistic undercover stories from muslim parts of British towns show these views to be the predominant ones)

You can all pretend that it is "backward" countries that are the problem, I beg to differ- screw global warming, my main concern is in the future when Islam isnt 4% it is maybe 20%, 30% etc- then the #storm really begins.

Hey my Dad was Irish, he had sympathy for the IRA, as did a lot of Irish people but 'sympathy' is a very broad, rather nebulous term to me. I might have sympathy for a serial killer because he had the misfortune to be wired up all wrong in the head and this drove him to commit the acts he did, this doesn't mean I condone or approve of his actions nor make him any less accountable. Sympathy or to be more precise understanding of what drives people to commit terrorist acts in the context of todays political map is no where near the same as supporting it or of harbouring some theocratic plot to Islamise your host country. I have no idea how many British Muslims are ready to take to the streets in a bid to overthrow democracy and I'm the last person to believe that Islam hasn't got some major problems within its structure that need addressing honestly but fear feeds on fear and I think that's far more of a threat.