Ron Paul wins 2nd YouTube/CNN debate ..MSM pretends it never happened

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Here is a source for Real Poll Numbers.

odd, I can't find information on who runs that site, anywhere at all. There is no about us page, no terms of service, no disclaimer - and the WHOIS information is all hidden, although the original site description was:

www.aboutus.org...

See the latest polls for the top democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. We will make a prediction on who will win the general election state by state, electoral votes by electoral votes.

They never mention who "we" refers to - and the description leads me to believe the site leans towards a Democratic bias. The lack of identification, sources, affiliations and so forth make me question why you would ever suggest that poll to anybody.

update: going through the website code, it was linking to quantserve.com, which is owned by QuantCast. Apparently, QuantCast claims to be "The World’s Only Open Internet Ratings Service" however, the CEO's profile leads me to believe otherwise:

www.quantcast.com...

Konrad Feldman- CEO

Prior to Quantcast, Konrad co-founded Searchspace (now Fortent) the leading provider of terrorist financing detection and anti-money laundering software to the world's financial services industry.

bios of the other executives are pretty insightful as well. If this is the same company hosting the aforementioned poll, it's no better than a poll here on ATS.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by scientist]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Here is a source for Real Poll Numbers.

Ron Paul is coming in at 1 to 6% over the last few months. A couple don't even carry his numbers because they are too low for him to be a viable Candidate.

This pretty well proves that Paul Supporters are causing false numbers on that ridiculously unscientific Polling.

Wrong. It just proves Ron Paul has more supporters on the internet then any of the others... which is quite an obvious fact, considering the internet is pretty much the only source of real news. Obviously he isn't yet known as well in the streets of America (thanks to the lack of coverage by MSM), but that is being fixed more and more as the days go by. He's now polling at 10% in some polls, and he is one of the VERY few who is actually continuing to RISE in the polls.



[edit on 30/11/07 by Navieko]

Ron Paul is a good idea but in the end he will hurt the Democratic ticket and will never win on his own. Anyone remember Perot?

He places high in straw polls, but as was shown in St Pete, anyone can. It comes down in the end to the vote next year.

If you told me that he was taking money from the GOP/CIA I would beleive you because he is needed to help a GOP in 08.

Guiliani/Romeny will be the ticket against Clinton/Clinton and Ron will take votes away from the Democrats.

If Ron doesn't win -- in the end it really doesn't matter who he hurts. They're all the same... I don't really buy into the "one slightly better then the other". If it wasn't for Ron, many people wouldn't be voting at all.

Ron Paul sure as hell was not outclassed. As a matter of fact, he showed more class than the other candidates, especially John McCain. Has anyone ever noticed Ron Paul attack another candidate?!? NO. Becuase Ron Paul has no reason to do that, and it is below his standards and morals. And the fact that many democrats and libertarians support him is extreme, and it is a good thing. The GOV is trying to shut him down by changing primaries to be only for the people affiliated with that party. What kind of democracy is that?

Ron Paul is gaining steam, and with all the money generated by REAL PEOPLE on the internet, people supporting him by sending anywhere from $5 dollars to $100 dollars, which is itself a form of polling that would suggest massive amounts of people know about him and agree with his beliefs, he is going to have money to spend advertising in some of the MSM and then the average joe who only listens to what they hear on TV or in the newspapers and magazines, will be exposed, and will undoubtedly jump on the band wagon.

One last thing, I can't prove it, but my money says Ron Paul is not capable of being bought off. He says it himself, and, being the son of a doctor, a vast majority of them have good morals and don't become doctors for money, as politicians tend to take that career exactly for that reason, along with power.

Ron Paul represents all that a good leader should have; charisma, strength, a good attitude, and as far as I can gather, he is not looking scared by those he goes up against by any amount. And not just the other candidates, Ron Paul is the people's champion taking on those who hold the ultimate power in this world; the BANKERS!!
Power to the People, and Power to Ron Paul!!!!!

reply to post by SaviorComplex

Really, Ron Paul supporters are embarassing. It can be said you are defined by your friends. One of the reasons no one takes Paul seriously is because you cannot take his supporters seriously. They act as fanatics and fools, and that reflects back on Paul. You want to help Ron Paul? Stop spouting the nonsense conspiracy theories, stop acting like a fanatic, and start using some common sense.

It isn't fair to make a blanket statement like that. The fact is, many intelligent, calm and sensible people are supporting him, as well. Unfortunately, it is just the rabble rousers that make the most noise.

reply to post by esdad71


It is a mistake to vote in a way that reflects "beating the odds" rather than voting for who you think is right for the presidency. That is why every four year we keep getting idiots into office. The democrats and republicans are the same in my opinion - it is just the outward form that is different. The only way anything will ever change is to change the system, and Ron Paul is the only one who recognizes that. He represents a complete departure from the current political paradigm in place. He is, to use the cliché, a kind of revolution. As I've said before in other posts -- and nobody seems to get this -- it doesn't matter if he "wins", it only matters that what he represents enters into the consciousness of Americans.

People need to keep that in mind and stop all this ridiculous bickering.

[edit on 1/12/07 by chutso_ha]

The problem is that every election year a third party or fringe candidate will come along, place their bid for the presidency, garner a huge grass roots following, and still end up tanking it in the elections. I am the first to throw support toward a long shot if he is the best candidate for the job, but it gets to be disappointing when it seems that they are faced with an overwhelming task.

Ron Paul is an excellent candidate and has been most well received by the internet voter base, but my worry is that for every well informed, politically enlightened voter out there willing to cast a vote for the little guy, there are five sheeple who will show up to the polls and tow the party line simply because they don't know any better.

For every 20-30 year old out there who is seeking a serious political change here in America there are hundreds of uninformed voters out there who have no interest whatsoever in changing the status quo. Not trying to be critical here, but think about how many 60 + people are out there in middle America that will fill their cars and buses on election day in order to trek to the local polls and cast their vote for whatever candidate happens to be running for the GOP.

Many vote Dem or Rep no matter who is running because they have been doing it since the Johnson administration and it is what they know how to do. And these people vote religiously, they do not stay home on election day like so many under 40 seem to do.

Also, it is my opinion that many folks in this country will vote based solely upon whatever candidate their biased network talking head of choice tells them to....(Limbaugh, Hannity, Olberman?) Sad to say Ron Paul has it even worse than some of the other candidates because there is an obvious and evident media bias against him.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
This is exactly what I was talking about. Your every word proves my point.

If you do not believe there is some conspiracy against Ron Paul, then you have been brainwashed, you are delusional, you're not intelligent, etc. This is the exact sort of fanaticism and nonsense that reflects poorly on Ron Paul, and prevents him from finding wider acceptance.

Oh come on. Have you even looked into what the 9/11 truthers are saying yourself? So far, it seems to me that almost everyone who does gets convinced that they make a whole lot of sense. But I think a lot of people (you?) see the term "conspiracy theory" and shut off your critical thinking abilities because of it.

Im not saying you are not intelligent. In fact, questioning things is good and a sign of intelligence. But if you are questioning the truthers simply because the mass media is saying they are crazy, you are not acting intelligent in my opinion. Thats what I mean when I say you have to step outside the illusion that there is nothing strange going on.

So what if it reflects badly on Ron Paul if he speaks of a conspiracy? Should he do what the other candidates does, and completely ignore it based on nothing but a feeling that it must be false? Is that intelligent behavior? No.

Use your critical thinking and look into what they are saying. There is no denying that the official story is impossible, and I dont see how you cant see that if you look into it yourself.

Ron Paul doesnt care about if his opinions are unpopular if they are true. And thats the sign of real integrity, something the other candidates are lacking. So what if some people think the truthers are reflecting badly on Ron Paul? Does every Ron Paul supporter have to agree with everybody else? No. Bottom line... vote for Ron Paul if you like Ron Paul. Its easy.



[edit on 1-12-2007 by Copernicus]

reply to post by jmilla


I don't think he'd ever sell out, either, if elected. but he proposes radical changes - the abolishment of the IRS and the federal reserve system, an end to our massive military machine (bring all the boys home who are abroad) and he wants less power in the presidential seat; he wants to give back more power back to the people on a state level. these are all excellent things. but do you think TPTB will let that happen? even if by a miracle he got elected (meaning, he'd get enough media exposure, get a majority interest, and had a voting apparatus NOT rigged), wouldn't TPTB do everything in their power to sabotage him while in office or just outright assassinate him?

Whether you support Paul or not, if he is unelectable what is the point? I don't belong to a Party any longer. I quit years ago. I'm registered as Undeclared. I often write in Candidates but that does not make them win. Yes Paul is popular with a small crowd of very active people on the Internet. Nobody is disputing that. 5% of the Republican Vote will not a President make. He has a lot of Baby Kissing to do I may vote for him? Its too early to decide yet. That does not change facts. That thing on CNN is meaningless. If every registered voter in the US with Internet access would have voted, Paul would have not even come close to winning. Paul is like a hit Rock Group with Groupies and all. That Poll was meaningless. Just stating a fact. I'll wager all my ATS Points He does not win anything. I may vote for him though. Not sure yet.

Originally posted by chutso_ha
reply to post by esdad71

 

It is a mistake to vote in a way that reflects "beating the odds" rather than voting for who you think is right for the presidency.
[edit on 1/12/07 by chutso_ha]

I agree completely Voting for who you really want is not wasting a vote, it is being honest.

reply to post by Navieko



I wonder how many were registered US Voters? It would be interesting to know?

Originally posted by chutso_ha


It isn't fair to make a blanket statement like that. The fact is, many intelligent, calm and sensible people are supporting him, as well. Unfortunately, it is just the rabble rousers that make the most noise.

You are quite right. I did not mean it to be a blanket statement; after all, I am a Ron Paul supporter myself. It is a rabble-rousing fanatics I was talking about.

I think Ron Paul did an excellent job and got excellent reactions from the crowd considering the lack of time he was allowed to speak. It wasn't fair, and he knows it, I know it, and most of you seem to know it. Ron Paul is the hope for America in the future. I know he is a long shot for the Republican nomination, but it's good to see a true conservative in there rolling with the punches and dishing out some of his own. Keep fighting the good fight Mr. Paul. I'm behind you 100%.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Oh come on. Have you even looked into what the 9/11 truthers are saying yourself? So far, it seems to me that almost everyone who does gets convinced that they make a whole lot of sense. But I think a lot of people (you?) see the term "conspiracy theory" and shut off your critical thinking abilities because of it.

When did this become about 9/11 "Truthers'? No one said anything about 9/11 "truthers." I was talking about the rabid idiocy of some Ron Paul supporters, not the facts about 9/11.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Im not saying you are not intelligent. In fact, questioning things is good and a sign of intelligence. But if you are questioning the truthers simply because the mass media is saying they are crazy, you are not acting intelligent in my opinion. Thats what I mean when I say you have to step outside the illusion that there is nothing strange going on.

And here we are with the ridiculous "you're brainwashed" and "you're delusional" meme again.

Originally posted by Copernicus
So what if it reflects badly on Ron Paul if he speaks of a conspiracy? Should he do what the other candidates does, and completely ignore it based on nothing but a feeling that it must be false? Is that intelligent behavior? No.

I

Have you even listened to Ron Paul? He isn't the one running around screaming about conspiracies, either against him or about 9/11. I was talking about the more rabid of his supporters. You are projecting your beliefs on him, when you have no evidence he subscribes to those beliefs.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Ron Paul doesnt care about if his opinions are unpopular if they are true. And thats the sign of real integrity, something the other candidates are lacking. So what if some people think the truthers are reflecting badly on Ron Paul? Does every Ron Paul supporter have to agree with everybody else? No. Bottom line... vote for Ron Paul if you like Ron Paul. Its easy.

I have an interest in Ron Paul being elected; thus I want to see him get as many votes as possible. The fanatics drive away potential voters with their rabidness.

------------------------------
Fixed quotes

[edit on 2/12/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Have you even listened to Ron Paul? He isn't the one running around screaming about conspiracies, either against him or about 9/11. I was talking about the more rabid of his supporters. You are projecting your beliefs on him, when you have no evidence he subscribes to those beliefs.

No, I am saying that I dont care if he supports those beliefs or not, and I dont care if his supporters do either. What Im interested in is what he is saying, and I like what he is saying. Nothing else matters, and I dont believe intelligent people would judge Ron Paul on what his supporters are saying about conspiracies. That would be pretty dumb of them, considering its not the supporters that they are voting for.

I have an interest in Ron Paul being elected; thus I want to see him get as many votes as possible. The fanatics drive away potential voters with their rabidness.

Thats your opinion, and if they do, so be it. If people cant understand that they are voting for Ron Paul and not his supporters, maybe they need to start questioning their thought patterns anyway. A election is not like being part of some sports team.


[edit on 2-12-2007 by Copernicus]

I do not spent any time anymore on Ron Paul.

Nostradamus already predicted the next US president.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Elections are all manipulated.

The way I look at it, Ron Paul has a rabid following of people desperate for change. When he loses the election, The # should hit the fan. We need guerilla terrorism on the scale of fight club. Liberty or death you big brother police state mother****ers.

1. I researched the original web page on cnn.com
   
2. I entered the candidate I thought would be my favorite
   
3. I hit the enter icon
   
4. the numbers that came out all concur with the initial link from the original item poster
   

This is now officially getting weird people, this & the 4.25 million dollars in a day that Rons supporters gave to him last month aren't even in the main stream's radar scope add to that they really don't understand the resentment the old conservative base has against the present big goverment people in power.
This is the typical naivety I see more and more in the news media's talking heads, no body really understands the libertarians except the libertarians.
The Republicans call us liberals and the Democrats call us conservatives, when in fact we're neither.
Consequently when they see a libertarian politician doing well, they can't pigeon hole them because they aren't republican or democrat (I know he's listed as republican , but please look back on the 1988 campaign where he ran on the Libertarian ticket) So the candidates like Paul get left out of the media coverage and are left to using guerrilla marketing to get the word out about their campaign. That's where Ron Paul has been effective using You Tube to great effect. If he keeps doing stuff like this then sometime around February The media will take notice, & he'll officially earn the title of scorned republican candidate thats scarring the pants off the other candidates, both republican & democrat alike.
My only hope is he won't be the next ross perot, and split the conservative vote & give the election to Clinton in 08.
Well that's my 3cents what do you guys think??