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Whats the benefit of falsifying Global Warming?
page: 2share:
So simple.
Better when the people worry about the industry destroying their world than worrying about a small amount of people that controls them.
Better when the people worry about the industry destroying their world than worrying about a small amount of people that controls them.
Theres no benefit to falsify it but its amazing the people closely connected to businesses that would be affected by a clamp down on emissions are the
ones who are always saying theres no evidence of it and its a lie.
Of course, the parrots who vote for them just mindlessly repeat this as if it was a fact.
Of course, the parrots who vote for them just mindlessly repeat this as if it was a fact.
Most of the reports that take a balanced view on global warming tend to give a fairly long time period for the serious impacts to be felt. In my small
minded opinion it makes sense that a group of scientists would get together and decide that it would be better to scare the public now with threats of
sudden demise and exaggerate reports of melts to promote a healthier environment and for people to take better care of the environment in future
generations. Not that money isn't involved, but the idea could be in there somewhere.
"Global Warming": A brilliant and eco-friendly way to make millions off of the environment. I mean since they have already cut-down the trees and
polluted the air, why not make money fixing the "problem" they caused in the first place? It's kind of like in an old movie when the mob enforcers
come around and bust up the joint and then the Godfather stops by later and offers "protection" from such terrible and unfortunate events.
cryptogon.com...
Related thread about how lucrative and easy it is to make money off of the suffering of others:
The Shock Doctrine: Disaster Capitalism
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And here is Al Gore's new spin on "Global Warming" - Venture Capitalism (and you just thought he was a nice guy who is trying to save the planet!):
money.cnn.com...
[edit on 3/12/07 by kosmicjack]
cryptogon.com...
You won’t have the clean technology without a total, fascist lockdown. I’ve said it from the beginning, and I’m saying it now. The technology to build the techno green utopia has been around for easily thirty years. Sorry folks, that’s not how it went, and that’s not how it’s going to go. The primacy of new killing technologies and technologies of political control go hand in hand with the clean energy systems…
The Blackwater USA mercenaries and the Global Warming fart tax crowd are on the same team, whether they realize it or not. Control access to energy and you control pretty much everything, and collect a handsome tax on pretty much everything as a result. The more readily available the energy, the more accessible it is to everyone, the more control will be required to maintain the established order and keep people continuously paying corporations for the privilege of being able to turn on the lights and cook a meal...
The idea that capitalism can save us from climate catastrophe has powerful appeal. It gives politicians an excuse to subsidise corporations rather than to regulate them; and it neatly avoids a discussion about how the core market logic of endless growth landed us here in the first place.
Related thread about how lucrative and easy it is to make money off of the suffering of others:
The Shock Doctrine: Disaster Capitalism
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And here is Al Gore's new spin on "Global Warming" - Venture Capitalism (and you just thought he was a nice guy who is trying to save the planet!):
money.cnn.com...
Gore appears utterly comfortable with this drill, but in fact he's engaging in some on-the-job training. The recovering politician, environmental activist, and Nobel laureate is adding another title to his résumé: venture capitalist. After "a conversation that's gone on for a year and a half," according to Gore, he has decided to join his old pal John Doerr as an active, hands-on partner at Kleiner Perkins, Silicon Valley's preeminent venture firm.
According to Doerr, by 2009 more than a third of Kleiner's latest fund, which was raised in 2006 and totals $600 million, will be invested in technologies that aim to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide. Already Kleiner has invested more than $270 million from various funds in 26 companies that make everything from microbes that scrub old oil wells to electric cars to noncorn ethanol. Twelve of Kleiner's 22 partners now spend some or all of their time on green investments.
In turn, Doerr, the master networker whose greatest hits include initial investments in Netscape, Amazon (Charts, Fortune 500), and Google (Charts, Fortune 500), will join the exclusive advisory board of Generation Investment Management. That's the $1 billion investment company Gore started three years ago in London with David Blood, the former head of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, to analyze and invest in publicly traded "sustainable" companies. Over the past five weeks Gore, Doerr, and Blood agreed to give Fortune an exclusive look at their new alliance.
[edit on 3/12/07 by kosmicjack]
i really am amazed that people continue to come up with claims that global warming is a farce and that it is all about some machiavellian plan to
control you....
first off, you are already fooked my friends....your cages are old and rusty...trapped within a system of control that most don't even see. slaves to the almighty "bitch goddess of success" the gawd of the enlightenment...
these cages are invisible and most go through their life believing they are free, when in fact they have spent their entire lives in servitude-abject slavery.
that said why is it that so many of you believe that the majority of scientists are involved in the conspiracy you see in global warming?
Equinox99: "over 15,000 scientists are signing a petition stating that global warming is a hoax." Link?
"There is no evidence that humans are the cause for global warming. If you look at the history of the Earth you would see how Earths tempreture jumps up and down. The Earth goes through warm and cold periods. "
really? none? thats funny i have seen a lot! yes you are right the Earth's temperature does fluctuate. Science has studied and proven the the carbon from volcanoes can rise the global temperature...see a y connection to people? look its right there in front of you....volcanoes = big bang = carbon released into the atmosphere....
"To reduce the Earths greenhouse gas emmisions done by humans would cost so much money and and it won't even do anything for the Earths climate. This would cause higher energy taxes, loss of many jobs and reduce the economic output."
well if we can afford to spend 1 trillion dollars to invade a country like iraq i think we can scrape together a few bucks in IMPROVE our technology...and it has been soundly demonstrated that a shift in energy technology will create more jobs than it would destroy....not to mention the economic boom our country wold see if we were to begin manufacturing here again (alt. energy) as well as the service jobs that would accompany the production....the ideqa that switching energy systems would ruin us is false, how does it feel to be the parrot of big business?
Sorry people but it is time to wake up. your home is being destroyed. with out this planet you and yours are #e. why is it so hard for people to see:
The Earth is Finite.
As a Closed Finite System There Are Limits.
Limits to Consumption and Waste.
The Earth can Only Produce So Many Resources Indefinitely.
The Earth Can Only Absorb So Much Waste Indefinitely.
Human Interactions With the Natural Must be Balanced With the Natural.
It IS Called Carrying Capacity.
Why is it that it is so hard for so many to see that humans are capable of affecting the planet?
The benefit of falsifying global warming for those in power is simple. it is all about the money.
first off, you are already fooked my friends....your cages are old and rusty...trapped within a system of control that most don't even see. slaves to the almighty "bitch goddess of success" the gawd of the enlightenment...
these cages are invisible and most go through their life believing they are free, when in fact they have spent their entire lives in servitude-abject slavery.
that said why is it that so many of you believe that the majority of scientists are involved in the conspiracy you see in global warming?
Equinox99: "over 15,000 scientists are signing a petition stating that global warming is a hoax." Link?
"There is no evidence that humans are the cause for global warming. If you look at the history of the Earth you would see how Earths tempreture jumps up and down. The Earth goes through warm and cold periods. "
really? none? thats funny i have seen a lot! yes you are right the Earth's temperature does fluctuate. Science has studied and proven the the carbon from volcanoes can rise the global temperature...see a y connection to people? look its right there in front of you....volcanoes = big bang = carbon released into the atmosphere....
"To reduce the Earths greenhouse gas emmisions done by humans would cost so much money and and it won't even do anything for the Earths climate. This would cause higher energy taxes, loss of many jobs and reduce the economic output."
well if we can afford to spend 1 trillion dollars to invade a country like iraq i think we can scrape together a few bucks in IMPROVE our technology...and it has been soundly demonstrated that a shift in energy technology will create more jobs than it would destroy....not to mention the economic boom our country wold see if we were to begin manufacturing here again (alt. energy) as well as the service jobs that would accompany the production....the ideqa that switching energy systems would ruin us is false, how does it feel to be the parrot of big business?
Sorry people but it is time to wake up. your home is being destroyed. with out this planet you and yours are #e. why is it so hard for people to see:
The Earth is Finite.
As a Closed Finite System There Are Limits.
Limits to Consumption and Waste.
The Earth can Only Produce So Many Resources Indefinitely.
The Earth Can Only Absorb So Much Waste Indefinitely.
Human Interactions With the Natural Must be Balanced With the Natural.
It IS Called Carrying Capacity.
Why is it that it is so hard for so many to see that humans are capable of affecting the planet?
The benefit of falsifying global warming for those in power is simple. it is all about the money.
Originally posted by Bluess
I personally believe polution is a major cause for the greenhouse effect, but i also believe the energy from the sun has become stronger over the years. and since we cant control the sun, we can only try to get rid of polution.
As to the whole divine concept...I like the idea but i am somehow sceptical.
Actually the greenhouse effect is a byproduct of the earth itself and a NECESSARY element of survival here on eart. Without the greenhouse effect, all heat energy would escape out of the atmosphere, we would freeze and our ball of dirt would turn to a ball of ICE!!!!!
Long live the greenhouse effect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Long live humans!!!!!!!!!
reply to post by kosmicjack
Hey Kosmic
I read an interesting article recently about TED TURNER. Everyone already knows he is the country's largest private land owner. I think its over 200 million acres now. There is a lot of people concerned that due to the acquisitions and whats under the ground and along these properties, he could be trying to become America's largest owner of the the water ways, resoviors and water supplies in the nation.
He claims its so his bison has some where to graze. I guess we all just have to wait.
Hey Kosmic
I read an interesting article recently about TED TURNER. Everyone already knows he is the country's largest private land owner. I think its over 200 million acres now. There is a lot of people concerned that due to the acquisitions and whats under the ground and along these properties, he could be trying to become America's largest owner of the the water ways, resoviors and water supplies in the nation.
He claims its so his bison has some where to graze. I guess we all just have to wait.
reply to post by Animal
I would like to hear eveyone's opinion to this conversation. It never really got anywhere, but would still like some input. I do believe global warming is a farce, climate change is just that. The cyclical heating and cooling of the earth.
Please post responses on the link, so I can respond accordingly.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I would like to hear eveyone's opinion to this conversation. It never really got anywhere, but would still like some input. I do believe global warming is a farce, climate change is just that. The cyclical heating and cooling of the earth.
Please post responses on the link, so I can respond accordingly.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Originally posted by Animal
i really am amazed that people continue to come up with claims that global warming is a farce and that it is all about some machiavellian plan to control you....
It's not that global warming itself is a farce. There may be some kind of overall warming happening, although the data is so complex and chaotic that even that is questionable. What a lot of people here are saying is that a lot of people are marketing that possible effect by cherry picking the data for their own gain.
Ordinarily, this happens all the time in business, even to the point where laws are manipulated to push a particular agenda. Happens all the time. But the annoying thing is the moral spin put on the debate. Those who believe in global warming are cast as the good and righteous saviors of the planet, while those who doubt it are evil, heartless polluters under the thumb of multi-national corporations.
When there are holes in the data, and belief is brought into the picture, morality tags along, too. Just like with Christianity or any other religion.
it's a balancing endeavor...
just as the multinational oil mega corps have climbed to the top of the heap in the global heirarchy,
so that they not only have a hand in every aspect of the energy & resource management---
(they are also the NGOs of the western war machine)
...There had/has to be a counter balance to that paradigm...
Oil vs Environment
enter the 'being-built-at-breakneck-speed' Global-warming & environmental protection Infrastructure...
principally a economic engine, that feeds on countering mega oil
as a new class of 'Green' Oligarchs is created, for the prosperity of both!
IT, electronics, hollywood, cottage industries are crumbs for the uncouth masses,
the real power & affluent lifestyles are for the mega oil barons & associates
VS the 'GloWar'-ming & Green-Environmentalist corporatologies,
(& both are managed-massaged by the Banker elites)
the model is a copy of the cold-war paradigm East-v-West
or the good cop-bad cop drama,
even the Catholic-Protestant
or Christian-Muslim divides.
its a dualistic world whether it is: politics, ecomonics, ideologies, religions, ~and the oil/energy ~v~ the green/environmentalists who swear that there are ways to ease the global warming coming cataclysm
[edit on 3-12-2007 by St Udio]
just as the multinational oil mega corps have climbed to the top of the heap in the global heirarchy,
so that they not only have a hand in every aspect of the energy & resource management---
(they are also the NGOs of the western war machine)
...There had/has to be a counter balance to that paradigm...
Oil vs Environment
enter the 'being-built-at-breakneck-speed' Global-warming & environmental protection Infrastructure...
principally a economic engine, that feeds on countering mega oil
as a new class of 'Green' Oligarchs is created, for the prosperity of both!
IT, electronics, hollywood, cottage industries are crumbs for the uncouth masses,
the real power & affluent lifestyles are for the mega oil barons & associates
VS the 'GloWar'-ming & Green-Environmentalist corporatologies,
(& both are managed-massaged by the Banker elites)
the model is a copy of the cold-war paradigm East-v-West
or the good cop-bad cop drama,
even the Catholic-Protestant
or Christian-Muslim divides.
its a dualistic world whether it is: politics, ecomonics, ideologies, religions, ~and the oil/energy ~v~ the green/environmentalists who swear that there are ways to ease the global warming coming cataclysm
[edit on 3-12-2007 by St Udio]
It's about the funding!
If you express an interest and show concern about global warning you can ask for tons of funding by claiming it's all for "research purposes".
Practically a blank check at your disposal, what a deal.
When you purchase your carbon credits do you ask for paper or plastic?
If you express an interest and show concern about global warning you can ask for tons of funding by claiming it's all for "research purposes".
Practically a blank check at your disposal, what a deal.
When you purchase your carbon credits do you ask for paper or plastic?
reply to post by traderonwallst
Global Warming - a PHILOSOSPOHICAL approach
This might hurt my head a bit, as me and philosophy don't usually get along.
What if.........the earth uses cyclical warming and cooling as a way to maintain some kind of equalibrium? What if it is a defense mechanism that it uses to protect some life on earth, while others perish? We all seem to believe that GLOBAL WARMING is man made (well, not all of us), but what if it is really the earth defending itself from over population or deforrestation or strip mining? What if its an event necessary for life to continue here on earth?"
This is a wonderfully sound theory, and I must say I love how you express it. I am sure that the natural cycle of warming and cooling on the planet is a systematic equilibrium that helps the planet maintain something I a aware of.
Possibly the maintenance of the atmosphere, or of water bodies, its hard to say. I could also see it being a defense mechanism, akin to our white blood cells. Regardless of its potential theoretical state it is obviously driven by gases, such as carbon. Knowing this, why would we contribute to a natural system that can kill us, maybe not all of us, but lots of boys and girls?
"Should we really stand in its way and try to change the climate?"
That seems rather foolish don't you think? As i just stated above why would we tamper with a climatic system that could kick our asses to the Tuesday 16 thousand years from yesterday?
My belief is this: The Earth is essentially a closed finite system. When human s first began to develop on the planet our population and systems had no impact on the planet. We were surrounded by the densest wilderness imaginable. As our population grew and we began to expand our technology, slowly we began to carve out the human landscape from the natural. For thousands of years this was no problem, everything was great. We had figured out how to live with more comfort and secured ourselves from the forces of nature.
However, as our population continued to grow and so too did our technology we crossed a threshold, where now our actions have continually increased impacts on the planet. The systems we have in place today impact the world in so many ways. Look up 'fragmentation' some time and look at mas that show what the built human environment has done to the natural. There is an entire field in biology dedicated to trying to tie together the last remaining 'patches' of nature to try to save the rapidly disappearing species whose ancestral homes have been obliterated by human systems.
While I do fully believe that Global Warming is in fact a natural cycle, I also wholly believe that humans are contributing to it in epic proportions. Why would we treat our planet with such disrespect? Knowing as we do that certain elements released into the atmosphere causes warming to occur, leading directly to a cooling, which depending on the severity of the warming could lead to an ice age, why would we tamper?
anyway this is my responce to the link traderonwallst, salutations.
Global Warming - a PHILOSOSPOHICAL approach
This might hurt my head a bit, as me and philosophy don't usually get along.
What if.........the earth uses cyclical warming and cooling as a way to maintain some kind of equalibrium? What if it is a defense mechanism that it uses to protect some life on earth, while others perish? We all seem to believe that GLOBAL WARMING is man made (well, not all of us), but what if it is really the earth defending itself from over population or deforrestation or strip mining? What if its an event necessary for life to continue here on earth?"
This is a wonderfully sound theory, and I must say I love how you express it. I am sure that the natural cycle of warming and cooling on the planet is a systematic equilibrium that helps the planet maintain something I a aware of.
Possibly the maintenance of the atmosphere, or of water bodies, its hard to say. I could also see it being a defense mechanism, akin to our white blood cells. Regardless of its potential theoretical state it is obviously driven by gases, such as carbon. Knowing this, why would we contribute to a natural system that can kill us, maybe not all of us, but lots of boys and girls?
"Should we really stand in its way and try to change the climate?"
That seems rather foolish don't you think? As i just stated above why would we tamper with a climatic system that could kick our asses to the Tuesday 16 thousand years from yesterday?
My belief is this: The Earth is essentially a closed finite system. When human s first began to develop on the planet our population and systems had no impact on the planet. We were surrounded by the densest wilderness imaginable. As our population grew and we began to expand our technology, slowly we began to carve out the human landscape from the natural. For thousands of years this was no problem, everything was great. We had figured out how to live with more comfort and secured ourselves from the forces of nature.
However, as our population continued to grow and so too did our technology we crossed a threshold, where now our actions have continually increased impacts on the planet. The systems we have in place today impact the world in so many ways. Look up 'fragmentation' some time and look at mas that show what the built human environment has done to the natural. There is an entire field in biology dedicated to trying to tie together the last remaining 'patches' of nature to try to save the rapidly disappearing species whose ancestral homes have been obliterated by human systems.
While I do fully believe that Global Warming is in fact a natural cycle, I also wholly believe that humans are contributing to it in epic proportions. Why would we treat our planet with such disrespect? Knowing as we do that certain elements released into the atmosphere causes warming to occur, leading directly to a cooling, which depending on the severity of the warming could lead to an ice age, why would we tamper?
anyway this is my responce to the link traderonwallst, salutations.
Originally posted by Nohup
Originally posted by Animal
i really am amazed that people continue to come up with claims that global warming is a farce and that it is all about some machiavellian plan to control you....
It's not that global warming itself is a farce. There may be some kind of overall warming happening, although the data is so complex and chaotic that even that is questionable. What a lot of people here are saying is that a lot of people are marketing that possible effect by cherry picking the data for their own gain.
Ordinarily, this happens all the time in business, even to the point where laws are manipulated to push a particular agenda. Happens all the time. But the annoying thing is the moral spin put on the debate. Those who believe in global warming are cast as the good and righteous saviors of the planet, while those who doubt it are evil, heartless polluters under the thumb of multi-national corporations.
When there are holes in the data, and belief is brought into the picture, morality tags along, too. Just like with Christianity or any other religion.
I would appreciate if you could supply evidence for the "chaos ", "overcomplexity", "cherry picked" data with "holes". I simply will not buy into the fact that entire scientific community is bought and sold and trying to deceive you. I will tell you this, your view is the view sold by the media, and if anyone is going to try to deceive you it is them. Yes some people who believe in global warming do think of the deniers as evil, not because they have shown any real evil intent, only because the believers see how important this issue is and it is so frustrating to have people continually buy into the doubt spun by the media.
I suggest you read this: Beyond the Ivory Tower
reply to post by Animal
Here's some climate change complexities:
Carbon dioxide did not end the last Ice Age -- which suggests that CO2 might not be the boogeyman greenhouse gas the media makes it out to be.
Aircraft contrails contributing to global warming? -- which suggests that aircraft contrails (as in water vapour) plays an important yet underplayed role.
Planting Trees Doesn't Necessarily Mitigate Global Warming -- which underscores the importance of proper forest management (planting trees in higher latitudes may decrease albedo, leading to more heat absorption).
At any rate, I think most people are too stuck on arguing who's fault it is or if it's happening... clouds the whole issue and prevents any forward movement, in my opinion.
Here's some climate change complexities:
Carbon dioxide did not end the last Ice Age -- which suggests that CO2 might not be the boogeyman greenhouse gas the media makes it out to be.
Aircraft contrails contributing to global warming? -- which suggests that aircraft contrails (as in water vapour) plays an important yet underplayed role.
Planting Trees Doesn't Necessarily Mitigate Global Warming -- which underscores the importance of proper forest management (planting trees in higher latitudes may decrease albedo, leading to more heat absorption).
At any rate, I think most people are too stuck on arguing who's fault it is or if it's happening... clouds the whole issue and prevents any forward movement, in my opinion.
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