It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

China: 'Erroneous' U.S. actions have harmed ties

page: 2
5
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 12:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by SteveR
Harmed ties?

This is laughable rhetoric at best.

WE are the ones that gave China its current GDP and newfound financial wealth.

You would of thought they'd make some concessions for the hand that feeds...


Actually the EU has larger business dealins wth China than the US. So the US are responsible for less than half of CHina's newfound wealth. Without CHina though, many people in the US wouldn't be able to afford things, so lets not forget it is a 2 way street. US comanies are in CHina to make money, not for humanitarian purposes, lol.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by mad scientist]




posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 12:26 PM
link   
reply to post by mad scientist
 


I think China would suffer more if somehow their trade with America dried up than would the Americans. Also, the EU may be China's biggest trading partner, but I believe America still imports more Chinese goods than the EU does...the EU got biggest trading partner status in part because of their exports to China.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 01:09 PM
link   
Good, its time we stop financing China's war machine and move industry back to America.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 01:16 PM
link   
reply to post by Golack
 


I couldn't agree with you more . we should deal with the chines just as we delt with the soviets and the cubans.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 01:51 PM
link   
rockets red glare-


who is china to tell the pres. who and who he can't talk too? It is obvious that they were the ones imbarassed. they should be, all brutal anthoritarian dictatorships should be imbarassed.


Well Chavez called our pres the devil so it doesn't sound like the US administration is getting much respect in these times.

loki-


We maintain a civil, if somewhat tenuous relationship based primarily on mutual economic benefit. Also both of our countries are permanent members of the UN Security Council. That's it.


This is true. We certianly have our ideological differences... it's all business with the chinese.

pavil-


Ummm, no I don't. What are you referring to? Surely not the Gary Powers incident?


I'm sorry my bad. Not the Gary P. incident. It was a spy plane but not a U-2, rather an EP-3 Aries which collided with a Chinese fighter in disupted airspace in 2001. Remember that? The Chinese pilot died and the spy plane crew was taken into custody but released a week or two later. They kept our plane for months though (if I recall).

centurion1211-


I'm assuming you meant half our country. Anyway, please keep in mind that china has been caught trying to influence those same elections on behalf of the democrats. There are also issues with contributions being made to democrat clinton's campain in this election with poor chinese in SF somehow contributing thousands of dollars.

And what about the chinese espionage at Los alamos, etc.?


Yes "half our" not half hour. I guess I had a couple donuts this morning but no coffee


That is interesting you mention China trying to tilt the elections in the dems favor.. It's the libs who usually talk of boycotting Chinese goods.


Espionage at Los Alamos? You mean the Cox Report? Well I know the CIA first heard about that in the mid-90s but the investigation went on forever. Years later they concluded that China had a nuclear espionage program and that they had stolen some classified information on the W-88 nuclear warhead.

What do I have to say about that? Well I'm assuming we also have a Chinese nuclear espionage program, just like I'd assume any wealthy country has the ability to have secret spy operations. But I'm wondering if the USA isn't at a disadvantage in the spy game, being that our country is so open to foriegners. The attitude of this country is if you work hard you can accomplish anything... including becoming a scientist at Los Alamos and having access to secret information. China's system is more closed and therefore harder to get an insider in...what do you think?



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 06:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Scramjet76
That is interesting you mention China trying to tilt the elections in the dems favor.. It's the libs who usually talk of boycotting Chinese goods.


Then check this out from the LA Times (well known as a liberal newspaper)website:

LA Times Article


Something remarkable happened at 44 Henry St., a grimy Chinatown tenement with peeling walls. It also happened nearby at a dimly lighted apartment building with trash bins clustered by the front door.

And again not too far away, at 88 E. Broadway beneath the Manhattan bridge, where vendors chatter in Mandarin and Fujianese as they hawk rubber sandals and bargain-basement clothes.

All three locations, along with scores of others scattered throughout some of the poorest Chinese neighborhoods in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx, have been swept by an extraordinary impulse to shower money on one particular presidential candidate -- Democratic front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Dishwashers, waiters and others whose jobs and dilapidated home addresses seem to make them unpromising targets for political fundraisers are pouring $1,000 and $2,000 contributions into Clinton's campaign treasury. In April, a single fundraiser in an area long known for its gritty urban poverty yielded a whopping $380,000. When Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) ran for president in 2004, he received $24,000 from Chinatown.


Wonder where all this money for the dems is coming from


If china, the "why" is an easy one. The chinese (rightly) perceive the dems to be anti-military and therefore more unlikely to challenge china on Taiwan, etc.

[edit on 11/30/2007 by centurion1211]



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 06:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by mad scientist
Actually the EU has larger business dealins wth China than the US.


I simply think China does not appreciate us and I beleive I'm right on that assertation.

If we had exercised more control over our outsourcing than our neoliberal politicians have, we would not be in these stinking situations with China right now.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 08:59 PM
link   
oh.. seems very hilarious.

seems to evade concrete issues while talking about who is spying and who is exporting rather than who is bombing or who is intervening.

seems to ignore the realities that it's american company who apologized to china for the non-qualified toys and it's american aircraft invaded china's territory sea.

seems that importing made-in-china is some kind of alms whilest exporting boeing is kind of aids.

seems to be some kind of invasion that china helps to finance your comsuption oriented economy while to be somehow intentional destuction if china sells dollar assets to avoid devaluation.

seems that china has become an enemy while china foundamentally never know this "reward".

As a matter of fact, your enemy is yourself in a sense that it is america who has created imaginative enemies for yourself otherwise your polititians and pentagon will have no excuse to apply more budget to satisfy their greed or to swindle votes with alarming news.

ever know what is the first island chain and second one to surround China?



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 09:23 PM
link   
If the US really wanted to bring freedom, at the very least they would put soldiers on the Tibet-China border. I know there isn't one officially, but we all know that Tibet was brutally invaded and annexed by those scumbags. Also they did force the tibetans to have sex with chineses so they can disapear from the map by mixing them... disgusting. Not to mentions all the others crimes the chinese government is coupable of...

But eh, america has lost the high moral ground, so how can the US put pressure on China? They can't! And China have the US by the balls... So unless there's a will from america to get the high moral ground again and to form an alliance with Europe to put a world embargo on China's products until there's a change in government, laws and almost everything... China is gonna treat their people like rats.

Not to mention that the UN gave dozens of awards to China for it's stance against it's people. China is the model for the world. Dictatorship, one-child policy, eugenics... all this for a world government similar to present-day China!



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 09:42 PM
link   
as for tibet, one child policy,etc.. i really dont want to say much more since you have been brainwashed to such a extent.

tibetan can have as much children as they want, their culture has been preserved well with the financial aid from central goverment. as far as somehow forced marrige between Han and tibetan is mentioned, i only want to say it is all NONSENSE and SH**T.

going travel to tibet to find your own answer would be help.

when it comes to overpopulation, if there were a real world goverment, what methods do you think the world goverment could have adopted to deal with overpopulation issue concerning the global warming and climate change?

war or one child policy?



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 11:00 PM
link   
The actions the Kitty Hawk CBG took after it was denied permission to make a port call in Hong Kong, China, were intended to send the proverbial "up yours" message to China in a subtle (for everyday Joe) but hugely significant manner. First was the decision of the battle groups commander to sail for it's homeport in Yokosuka Japan instead of waiting for the Chinese to give a response. Then came the decision to not return back to Hong Kong after the Chinese revered their order and granted permission for the battle group to port. Despite knowing that hundreds, perhaps thousands of family members of the crew had made the trip to welcome the sailors to Hong Kong in order to enjoy thanksgiving. Regardless of that fact that Hong Kong is a favorite among USN sailors. And by sailing to Japan the battle groups crew would spend most of Thanksgiving on the ships instead of on land celebrating with themselves and family given the transit time. Still, it's likely the commanders decided being "played" and manipulated by the Chinese was too much of a humiliation to take, hence why the did not return to Hong Kong.

But the big story here, and the main part of the message is the transit of the Kitty Hawk CBG through the Straight of Taiwan. This particular waterway in South East Asia is one of the most contested and military, politically charged. In light of the obvious tensions between China and Taiwan there have been a total of three major crises which have erupted in these waters. Each had the potential to ignite a conflict in the region. The area is largely a no go for Taiwanese and Chinese vessels, never mind USN warships. The last major crises that occurred there happened in 1995 and 1996, until now, that was the last time the US sent warships through the straits. Prior to that the only other time US vessels sailed in the straight was in 1976, so as you can see this is not an ordinary event.

The decision to pass through the straits instead of taking a detour was made, I believe, for several reasons. One it would show China that the USN could travel anywhere it chose to even if these waters were highly volatile and or in close proximity to the PLAN. It would send the message that despite being refused permission to enter Hong Kong China could not dictate when and where the US chooses to sail. Second it would sever as a means to get back at the Chinese by pissing them off in a big way. Showing American strength and power against China by passing thought the straight would serve not only as a way to bolster relations with Taiwan but to also let everyone know that we mean business. Our supercarriers are the ultimate icon and symbol of American power and influence. And thirdly it was a matter of logistics, time, supplies etc… sailing around the Taiwan would add hours to the trip and expand more resources.

I bet the Chinese and Taiwanese in the region were shocked to see this sight sailing in the straight given how rare it.



Recommended Reading: "Third Taiwan Straight Crises"



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 12:09 AM
link   
reply to post by centurion1211
 




Then check this out from the LA Times (well known as a liberal newspaper)website:


Yes that sounds sketchy but look in the article it also says..


Howard Wolfson said. "In this instance, our own compliance process flagged a number of questionable donations and took the appropriate steps to be sure they were legally given. In cases where we couldn't confirm that, the money was returned."




If china, the "why" is an easy one. The chinese (rightly) perceive the dems to be anti-military and therefore more unlikely to challenge china on Taiwan, etc.


That's true. Also the USA would be less likely to challenge Iran, whom China depends on for something like 12% of their oil.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 12:27 AM
link   
reply to post by WestPoint23
 




Showing American strength and power against China by passing thought the straight would serve not only as a way to bolster relations with Taiwan but to also let everyone know that we mean business. Our supercarriers are the ultimate icon and symbol of American power and influence.


A very good post WestPoint. I was not aware of how rare it is for us to sail our warships through the straight. That does send a pretty clear message.



On March 8, the U.S. announced that it was deploying the Independence carrier battle group (CVBG), already stationed in the western Pacific, to international waters near Taiwan. On the following day, the PRC announced live-fire exercises to be conducted near Penghu from March 12-20. On March 11, the U.S. deployed the Nimitz CVBG, which steamed at high speed from the Persian Gulf. Tensions erupted further on March 15 when Beijing announced a simulated amphibious assault planned for March 18-25.

Sending two carrier battle groups showed not only a symbolic gesture towards the ROC, but a readiness to fight on the part of the U.S.


After reading it I remember. Mid 90s, China-Taiwan, aircraft carriers... check. I remember watching it on tv. Thanks for the memory



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 12:29 AM
link   
reply to post by Scramjet76
 


Ah, baloney...enough tokenism...time to punch the Chinese in the balls with good-ole-fashioned tariffs.

BTW, it's "strait" for the body of water, "straight" for the adjective.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 12:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Jim_Kraken
 


I was at work for 12 hours today if that explains it. But yes my grammar is generally quite poor.

As for the tariffs... are you sure that's wise considering the importance of getting some sort of cooperation from China on Iran. Let's say we take your method.. what kind of tariffs would you impose? All imports or did you have something specific in mind?



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 12:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Scramjet76
 


Hey, don't sweat it, just trying to keep spelling at the best we can have. Not a jab at you or anything, your posts are quite good. I propose tariffs that would effectively eliminate any advantage the Chinese have set up for themselves thru currency manipulation or tariffs of their own. And maybe an extra 1% or 5% for whatever slave labor may be going on. Furthermore, I'm not worried about Iran. The only person who SHOULD be worried about Iran is Israel, and that country should not be America's or anyone else's responsibility.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 01:49 PM
link   
reply to post by Jim_Kraken
 



Hey there, no worries, didn't take it as a jab

It looks like a few congressman tried to do just that in 2005..


Washington, D.C. -- Against the background of April's record high trade deficit of $57 billion, U.S. Rep. Phil English (R-PA) along with Reps. Mark Green (R-WI), Chris Chocola (R-IN) and Robin Hayes (R-NC ) today announced H.R. 3004, the Currency Harmonization Initiative through Neutralizing Action (CHINA) Act of 2005, to impose automatic tariffs if the Treasury Department finds China's exchange rate policy conforms with the WTO definition of currency manipulation.

source

The bill was introduced by republican representatives, however the administration never seemed interested. A bit odd don't you think? Well perhaps the next administration will do something. Maybe it's time we did something other than sailing the strait of Taiwan..

And I thought your comment on Israel was spot on. They have a very strong military, let them deal with Iran. Logically speaking, it is their problem as Iran won't develop the missile technology to reach the USA for at least another 7-8 years by current estimates.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 02:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by prona
Prepare yourselves. I have a feeling that war is just around the corner.


Yes and no, what we need to do is pull out our big corporations that are over there, manufacture more things in the US, and only let select things through import/export... but I don't see that happening because it's cheaper to use China instead of the US. Heck, I used to work for a company that took in contracts cheaply just to keep people working and training programs, the main contracters pulled out(Bemis, Kohler, etc.) and now for the last few years it's been a slow down there. If it wasn't for some other companies, and local based places I think there program would have gone belly up. From what I hear there's still very little work and they are sending people home.



posted on Dec, 8 2007 @ 04:52 AM
link   
China has been helping U.S and EC countries in supressing inflation risks for the past few years. The World should also be graceful to China for bing the cheap goods to their door steps. MNCs are exploiting the Chinese workers with low wages and reaped tones of profits by exporting goods to other countries selling them at a very ridicular high prices like NIKE shoes is a good example. China has prolonged other countries' growth and prevent them from entering into a recession.



posted on Dec, 14 2007 @ 01:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by Golack
Good, its time we stop financing China's war machine and move industry back to America.


Well for one, nobody could afford anything if it was all made in America. Simple fact is it is too damn expensive to make most things in America. People wouldn't be able to afford to buy anything.
Did you know that China is in fact financing the US's war machine, not the other way round. You need to understand this. China is keeping the US dollar artifically high, but purchasing T-Bills, I think they own about 1.2 trillion now. The only country at the moment that is using their war machine is America.




top topics



 
5
<< 1   >>

log in

join