Okaydokay.

First and foremost I apologize about my impatience, to the Three Amigos, and to a percentage of the membership who may scorn me over this...

I love the site, I visit everyday and I always look forward to further developments in the UFO field.

I believe in Extra-Terrestrials and believe there is something in our skies we cannot currently explain unless the military come out with some fancy technology; as a footnote, I live in the 'Falkirk Triangle' in Scotland, and while living in a village called Shieldhill, had many sightings of bizarrely moving lights in the night sky in my early teens, during the UFO flap that coined the name I had previously quoted.

All that jazz aside now.

Now I notice the site logo states 'Deny Ignorance, please!' In fact, Denying Ignorance works both ways. From a skeptics POV it can mean ignorance of science, from a believers POV it can mean ignorance of (sometimes sketchy) recorded evidence; debunking essentially.

With this in mind, this creates a site that is always going to be crashing with opinions over the same subject matter, time and time again. In this thread, that was started just a few months away from a year ago, it was stated that 'Team ATS' visited Clifford Stone. A man that, although may have a nice personality, is very welcoming and apparently quite religious, is a totaly fraud. His story is complete crap, utterly. He assures us 'not to take it at face value.' Basically believe it or not; a catalyst for lies. Yet on the mark of his great personality, and warmth as a human being your hardest skeptic Crakeur even fell into the trap, so puppy eyed was he that Clifford's Wifes' cookies turned his opinion on Clifford, who if he hadn't have met him in person would probably have tore apart his story by the seams. When exactly is the information that Clifford has going to become available? Is it worth making a documentary, because lets face it, it probably won't affect many people,or the world at large, why not post the documents on the site that's supposed to matter?

If you want to maintain the credibility of this site, which according to those crazy dudes over at RealityUncovered.Com(WoW, are those guys paranoid, they think a conspiracy site is a conspiracy - anyone else sense the irony), is becoming rather too fringy (wide-eyed believers like RiotComing who believe everything they read for example makes a laughing stock of the site) then you have to disassociate with Clifford Stone, and anybody associated with Project Camelot.

Sorry Clifford, God Bless you and your story.

Again sorry for the nay-saying but I had to vent it some way or another.







[edit on 15-8-2008 by Smugallo]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Smugallo]

*poke*

Is any update at all possible, or some small teaser to keep us going?

Wow

I forgot I typed that huge post. I was drunk.

No wonder the missus wants to shut me up, what a rant!

Originally posted by Springer

You've totally missed the point Smugallo...

What we are interested in has nothing to do with Clifford beyond the fact he was the man who got the documents.

The documents are most assuredly real and that's all that matters.

Springer...

First of all I would like to point out that I am on the fence with regards to Clifford Stone and his documents. I am prepared to wait and see how this topic pans out. So moving on...

The point raised by Smugallo is, in fact, perfectly valid.

If the reputation of Clifford Stone is that of a proven(?) hoaxer then you must question the authenticity of the documents.

To not question the source of any document would be, at the very least, naive, and at the very worst, ignorant.

In fact, how have you come to the conclusion that:

The documents are real?

The envelopes are real?

The documents came with the envelopes?

I think there are people that can officially authenticate documents, perhaps this has been done. It would take a lifetime though!

I've come to the conclusion that these documents are not as important as first made out to be...
For instance if they are really as good as they are hyped up to be you wouldn't be wasting your time on these other "projects" when apparently you have the holy grail of ufology, it just doesn't make sense...

I hope i am wrong though...



[edit on 16-8-2008 by SKUNK2]

Probably not, although I do believe they will be compelling nonetheless. If all the major media outlets have been exhausted, then surely the overly dreary FOIA page on this site should be injected with a bit of life.

To be honest the gulf of tolkin incident is interesting, but it's nothing new and primarily a lot of guys and gals on this site are interested in UFO data, as proved by the site stats.

I can't believe the last few replies in this thread???

The documents have nothing to do with Clifford Stone. That he gathered them and passed them on to Team ATS, is his only link in the chain. The documents are from verified government sources.

Furthermore, Springer never stated that he was holding onto the holy grail of ufology. The documents show that the government was up to no good... so until we see them and connect the dots, we don't know what their contents imply.

Wow, seriously... human nature is totally absurd, at times. Sit back, relax, wait and see what eventuates. If you can't do that, then don't bother posting here, as it becomes repetitive clutter than has been discussed to death in the preceeding 32 pages of posts!

Keep the thread free for important updates, instead of trash-talking drivel.

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Originally posted by Springer
Since when does "cover up" equal aliens visiting the planet?!

Since you started using this language to describe your documents:

...these documents only prove that the U.S. Government definitely does have an interest in UFOs despite their proclamation in 1969, they have definitely been lying to the population and we have rock solid PROOF, in their own "hand" (official letters) that they lied to not one but two U.S. Senators about it.

They also irrefutably PROVE that there has been at least one totally bizarre object that came to ground, nobody knew what it was, and it was not, I repeat NOT of this Earth, and it was certainly manufactured or made/built, assuming we can believe what's said in a closed door, secure hearing before a select committee of the U.S. Congress.

The reality is NOBODY is ever going to be incompetent enough to literally write "we met the aliens" or "it was definitely an alien space ship from another planet" in ANY official document.

You have to "connect the dots" between many documents to assemble the big picture.

Most people are aware of the fact that their governments lie to them. ATS is the recipient and broadcaster of posts that, each day, attempt to depict instances where a government, or member of, has lied or is lying to the people.

If this has more to do with governments lying to it's people and less about aliens et al, why then is this post in Aliens & UFOs and not in a more suitable, relevant forum such as Political Conspiracies?

I thought we were talking about something that was total proof that the US Government had indeed covered up the fact that they have had interaction with ETs and ET technology.

I apologise for the misunderstanding.

[edit on 18/8/2008 by skibtz]

Good luck with the 'quest' hope you all get back safely, and I often wonder how different the world would have been today if the people who been involved and had helped cover it all up , had had the balls to just tell the truth in the first place.....

Originally posted by tezzajwThe documents have nothing to do with Clifford Stone. That he gathered them and passed them on to Team ATS, is his only link in the chain.

Clearly the documents have everything to do with Clifford Stone. He collected them, organised them, 'joined the the dots' and then had ATS travel from New York to Nevada to explain them to ATS and hand them over.

Clifford Stone has absolutely everything to do with this.

The documents are from verified government sources.

We do not know this.

Again, how have ATS come to the conclusion that:

The documents are real?

The envelopes are real?

The documents came with the envelopes?

Can all of the above can be forged?

Furthermore, Springer never stated that he was holding onto the holy grail of ufology.

But Springer did say:

I would call it proof of a coverup with ZERO DOUBT. I mean that, ZERO DOUBT.

The Holy Grail as far as I am concerned when coupled with:

...these documents only prove that the U.S. Government definitely does have an interest in UFOs despite their proclamation in 1969, they have definitely been lying to the population and we have rock solid PROOF, in their own "hand" (official letters) that they lied to not one but two U.S. Senators about it.

They also irrefutably PROVE that there has been at least one totally bizarre object that came to ground, nobody knew what it was, and it was not, I repeat NOT of this Earth, and it was certainly manufactured or made/built, assuming we can believe what's said in a closed door, secure hearing before a select committee of the U.S. Congress.

The reality is NOBODY is ever going to be incompetent enough to literally write "we met the aliens" or "it was definitely an alien space ship from another planet" in ANY official document.

You have to "connect the dots" between many documents to assemble the big picture.

The above two quotes clearly state that the the documents are 100% absolute proof that the US Government have lied about the fact that alien technology exists.

A Holy Grail indeed.

Sit back, relax, wait and see what eventuates. If you can't do that, then don't bother posting here, as it becomes repetitive clutter than has been discussed to death in the preceeding 32 pages of posts!

We are here to question all that is put before us. We will not shut up. We will not stop thinking.

How can you justify trashing the previous 32 pages of posts on a site that is driven by, and exists because of, user content?

Keep the thread free for important updates, instead of trash-talking drivel.

I consider my questions and thoughts on this post as important. You do not. Which is fine. But I am still entitled to free speech on a site that seeks the truth am I not?

[edit on 25/8/2008 by skibtz]

Since it's obvious there are some who lack the patience to allow this to unfold the way it needs to, no matter how long it takes, and they continuously twist my words in an attempt to make them fit their own incorrect conclusions, I have no choice but to lock this thread until there is something to report. I don't have the time to constantly restate the reality over and over again.



Springer...