"TEAM ATS" Is in Roswell, New Mexico TODAY, 11/29/2007

I noticed the thread on the Rockefeller/ Carter attempt at "disclosure" and felt this was a good time to let interested Members know that "Team ATS" is in Roswell right now on a mission.


The fact Rockefeller and Carter couldn't get it done is not surprising since Jimmy Carter is reported to have told several people that when he tried to dig into the situation as PRESIDENT he was flatly denied and told that the President doesn't have the all powerful "need to know".

This is precisely why "Crakeur" and I are in Roswell (I am typing this post in a Roswell hotel room) to spend the day with Clifford Stone.

I don't believe any single person will ever effect disclosure, I believe it will take a huge groundswell of public opinion and demand. The only way to get that public demand is to get the MSM involved. The only way to get the MSM involved is to play the game by their rules.

Dr. Greer tried several years ago but went over the top, IMHO, with all the "aliens are among us now and we're all gonna die" stuff. That's all the MSM people heard, the very serious testimony and documentation was utterly ignored.

You see, it is my personal opinion that it's not the public who isn't ready, it's the MSM, the people who have careers and reputations on the line. No serious news person is going to risk their job and credibility on anything that can't be vetted. If you come off the blocks shouting the aliens are among us and the President is a reptile nobody is going to talk to you.

BUT...

If you come off the blocks with a series of documents, REAL, legit, papers from the very government we suspect is covering something up you have a solid shot at getting the attention of some VERY serious and very powerful MSM types.

If their is a genuine cover up and you can convince the average person that there is, you can initiate disclosure by civil pressure. Assuming you can avoid the concepts and topics that make the average person roll their eyes and switch the channel. Avoiding those but presenting the hard evidence. That being said, the hard evidence is very difficult to prove unless you really know what you are doing. Remember, if it's supposed to be covered up it starts on day two.

Taking Roswell as an example, suspending disbelief and assuming it was an alien craft that crashed there, the first day the "truth" got out, the second day the cover up started. That leaves you with a huge paper trail BUT those writing the papers, especially the classified stuff, were not going to use obvious language in the documents, i.e "The alien craft was shipped to Ohio". No, they would write something like "the debris was crated and shipped to Ohio" which is very vague and very easy to deny was anything more than a weather balloon.

The trick for the expert researcher is to keep digging, there should be a description of the debris in a separate report, or maybe a series of other documents that add providence to the first indicating just what the "debris" was.

The problem in the past has been the "over the top" bits are all anyone paid attention to and that feeds into the conspirators hands, again, assuming their are conspirators, in such an obvious way it's silly.

The concept we are going to employ will be to focus solely on the ascertainable facts that can be vetted. The facts that the average person could and would believe is possible. If the facts show there is a cover up and we stick exclusively to that and avoid the speculation of what else could be going on I think we stand a fair chance of at least getting some very big time media attention which will hopefully spread like wildfire.

If their are disinfo agents out there they won't be able to blow holes in documented facts and the MSM will be climbing over each other to get the story.

I guess the point is, we plan to present a sober, rational and very well documented case that completely avoids the wild eyed "there's an alien behind every bush" (pun intended ) stuff that sends the MSM and the average person packing if Clifford has the documents we have been told he has.

That's another possible "issue" as well, what someone who has spent many years in the military, and many more years researching FOIA sees in a document set could be very different than what we would see, but that's why we're here in Roswell... to find that out.

I'll update this thread after our meetings with Clifford.

Springer...

[edit on 11-29-2007 by Springer]

Go getem SPRINGER keep up the good work. It show's we are not the average joe web -site -we take thing's serious around here---Get me a drink at the LITTLE ALIEN ..

Right there with you Mark..... in SPIRIT. You hit the nail on the head about Carter, which Shirley MacLaine in her exclusive interview with us CONFIRMED. As Mulder would say "The Truth Is Out There." It seems it is all of our jobs here as ATS MEMBERS to seek out the truth and bring it to light.

Dig deep! Give my best to Steve-O.

Still Seeking......

Dave

AWESOME!!! Amigo,
Keep up the good work Springer and I'm glad you're serious about this and not just throwing nonsense at them. Go Team ATS!!!

Sic 'em, boys. We're behind you 100%. - PrplHrt -

reply to post by Springer


Now THIS is what I'd call a breaking story. I'll be glued to the thread to see what you come up with.

I agree completely with your analysis and have for a considerable time had big admiration for George Knapp for having the courage to go where most fear to tread (professionally speaking).

Interested lurkers go here and seek out the George Knapp interview threads. Some excellent stuff.

As an (interested) member I thank you Springer and ATS for actively searching for the truth. Keep up the good work and good luck!

I will anxiously await for updates on this.

Good luck!

We are all pulling for you guys.

Greer is nutty but Clifford Stone isn't? lol, do some research Springer..

pour some BBQ sauce on em and work em like a rib Springer. But use caution my friend.....wild animals get a bit nasty when you back them into a corner.

So you're basically having a meeting? With civilians?

Also, why in Roswell? Isn't that a bit cliche'?

reply to post by LogicalThinker


The point is the documents NOT the belief system of the researcher. That's been the problem all along people keep interjecting their belief systems into what should be a fact based, vetted presentation of evidence.

I don't want to believe anything, I want to know it. If there is evidence that proves there is a cover up, what I believe, you believe or Clifford Stone believes is irrelevant isn't it?

Now taking that one step further, if the evidence points to something "nutty" and proves it's possible, then who is nuts?

Springer...

[edit on 11-29-2007 by Springer]

reply to post by SloS13


It's where the documents and the man are.

Springer...

Right ON!

I live 70 miles from there by the Caverns...I KNOW something happened back in 1947. As to WHAT - I have no firm opinion because I just want to know the truth.

Someday (soon I hope) it WILL come out. It has been my experience that such is inevitable - especially if the diggers refuse to quit digging!

Dig it?
Dig on!

Best to you Springer and while you are there keep looking up.

WOW

Awesome

Gooo Springer !!!

Gooo Team ATS !!!

This is what I am talking about. The only way that anybody will ever take you seriously in this world today is if you wow them with professionalism.

At work I am an IT contractor and we get a lot of turn over. I have been working at my job for about a year and 6 months now while new people come aboard and then get fired weeks later simply for not being professional enough. That is kinda frustrating for me because this will happen for months and sometimes I am the only one really holding down the fort.

Bottom line is, if you are not professional, you loose. The UFO/Conspiracy community has had a bad name and reputation because of a couple of bad apple that have gone off of the deep end and ruined it for everyone. It is up to us to turn that around and wow them with professionalism.

Springer - I consider myself a person of professional standards. If there is anything that I can do to help please let me know. Go get em Springer.

By the way Springer, I am also a big PC Gamer, we should play sometime.

[edit on 11/29/07 by housegroove23]

reply to post by Springer


While I'm not sure what you will uncover that hasn't already been fully vetted in the last 40 some odd years, I applaud your approach to the MSM. Just like on ATS, if you want to play in the game, you have to go by the ref's rules.

A little insight for your quest:

www.thirdworldtraveler.com...

Excerpt:

["The mass media serve as a system for communicating messages and symbols to the general populace. It is their function to amuse, entertain, and inform, and to inculcate individuals with the values, beliefs, and codes of behavior that will integrate them into the institutional structures of the larger society. In a world of concentrated wealth and major conflicts of class interest, to fulfill this role requires systematic propaganda.

In countries where the levers of power are in the hands of a state bureaucracy, the monopolistic control over the media, often supplemented by official censorship, makes it clear that the media serve the ends of a dominant elite. It is much more difficult to see a propaganda system at work where the media are private and formal censorship is absent. This is especially true where the media actively compete, periodically attack and expose corporate and governmental malfeasance, and aggressively portray themselves as spokesmen for free speech and the general community interest. What is not evident (and remains undiscussed in the media) is the limited nature of such critiques, as well as the huge inequality in command of resources, and its effect both on access to a private media system and on its behavior and performance.

A propaganda model focuses on this inequality of wealth and power and its multilevel effects on mass-media interests and choices. It traces the routes by which money and power are able to filter out the news fit to print, marginalize dissent, and allow the government and dominant private interests to get their messages across to the public. The essential ingredients of our propaganda model, or set of news "filters," fall under the following headings: (I) the size, concentrated ownership, owner wealth, and profit orientation of the dominant mass-media firms; (~) advertising as the primary income source of the mass media; (3) the reliance of the media on information provided by government, business, and "experts" funded and approved by these primary sources and agents of power; (4) "flak" as a means of disciplining the media; and (5) "anticommunism" as a national religion and control mechanism. These elements interact with and reinforce one another. The raw material of news must pass through successive filters, leaving only the cleansed residue fit to print. They fix the premises of discourse and interpretation, and the definition of what is newsworthy in the first place, and they explain the basis and operations of what amount to propaganda campaigns.

The elite domination of the media and marginalization of dissidents that results from the operation of these filters occurs so naturally that media news people, frequently operating with complete integrity and goodwill, are able to convince themselves that they choose and interpret the news "objectively" and on the basis of professional news values. Within the limits of the filter constraints they often are objective; the constraints are so powerful, and are built into the system in such a fundamental way, that alternative bases of news choices are hardly imaginable. In assessing the newsworthiness of the U.S. government's urgent claims of a shipment of MIGs to Nicaragua on November 5, I984, the media do not stop to ponder the bias that is inherent in the priority assigned to government-supplied raw material, or the possibility that the government might be manipulating the news, imposing its own agenda, and deliberately diverting attention from other material. It requires a macro, alongside a micro- (story-by-story), view of media operations, to see the pattern of manipulation and systematic bias."] - NOAM CHOMSKY

[edit on 11-29-2007 by William One Sac]

Thanks MOD!

[edit on 29/11/07 by kosmicjack]

With today's revelation that CNN couldn't be bothered to show the UFO question at yesterday's Republican debate -- because the public can't be trusted to come up with intelligent questions -- this news could not have come at a better time.

Quite frankly, we don't care what the opinions of the media or the politicians are! What we want are answers to our questions from people who's bread & butter is the tax paying, TV watching, public.

Mr. Springer, excellent work sir! And completely agree with you on the psychology behind the MSM's reluctance on the topic. Surely we need a professional, no-nonsense approach ... and keep hammering at it while the topic is fresh.

What is also needed is the detachment of personalities from the subject, I think that aspect has done a fair bit of damage to the topic e.g. Greer, Icke, Hoagland pushing what really amounts to personal/profit agendas to the media.

My opinion is that the interaction with the MSM should be done not at the individual level, but at a corporate level, ATS being one good example of that.

Team ATS, now I've got this wonderful picture in my head with fruity colored spandex suits matched with goofy masks. Ugh.

The ideology is spot on. ATS has been a decently professional forum dedicated to all sorts of alternative topics. If it's anybody that'll be able to form a coherent and persuasive argument for disclosure, it's this community.