Stop the M.A.D.D.ness!!!, page 6


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reply posted on 23-9-2005 @ 04:00 PM by RANT
More proof MADD won already and doesn't even know.

I just had a very interesting conversation with a regional representative for MADD over an issue personally affecting me. Despite being more than helpful (for which I give them total credit), the spokesperson...

1) Had no idea there was a MADD inspired national database of DUI convictions linked to your social security number that allows (nay FORCES) one state to "withhold" your driving status in other states indefinitely with no official recourse or opportunity for advocacy if not a resident in the "hold" state. Even if you did everything you were supposed to do.

2) Was positive anyone, anywhere, regardless of MADD's efforts could just walk into any DMV office in any state 'even if they just killed someone in another' and get a license. "I mean terrorists and Mexicans do it all the time."

My responses:

1) Oh but they can. In fact, they do. They have no choice. Even they (the DMV) thinks it's stupid and wants someone to change it but has no idea who's in charge anymore. They sent me to you.

2) That may have been true at one time. And it may be true for "terrorists and Mexicans" now. But I'm neither. I'm a US citizen and I'm trying to do the right thing, but there's no room in the "system" you helped create for people like me. Honest people that do what they're told, jump through hoops and hope for the best. That's now officially a fruitless endeavor.

Again, to the representative's credit, MADD was one of the most helpful organizations I've spoken with in the years I've been navigating this flawed system including the DMV, various state Judges, the Attorney General and even my own lawyer, but they had no idea how to interpret a resolution to the iron clad legislation cycle they've helped create.

And it just reinforces my fears from all along. Nobody is in charge here. We just keep making laws, increasing punishments and closing "loopholes" until there's nothing left but a giant trap ensnaring more and more Americans every year with no recourse, no time served, no solution and no end in sight.

Somebody in charge, seriously, please take responsibility for this system and stop the maddness. The War on Us is won. The American spirit defeated. We submit. The lobbyists won. "UNCLE." Declare victory already and stand down. Quit making new laws, just fix the ones we have. There has to be a solution for every American in every situation. And that should be mandatory.

[edit on 23-9-2005 by RANT]


reply posted on 24-9-2005 @ 01:22 AM by RANT
Originally posted by sigung86
Having seen these types of senseless deaths, and people who are repeatedly bounced for DWI/DUI, and don't lose their driving privileges (privs, not rights), I am all for losing your license for life if you are dumb enough to get into a situation where you just have to drink and drive.


And the misinformation continues. Nobody gets "bounced" now. Everybody is punished. Severely. And even when they do everything they're supposed to do including jail, house arrest, hundreds of hours of community service, tens of thousands of dollars on treatment and re-education, years and years and years without a licence, jumping through hoop after hoop, all of which is contrary to what they were told at sentencing (for a punishment not to legally exceed 3 years), many find themselves in a system with no resolution, nobody in charge, and nobody to turn to. So much of the "punishment" is outsourced now to private probation agencies, AA, a state complicit psychiatric industry, "interlock" shops and a DMV that can't figure out if it's part of the public service or a penal system, that long after a sentence is "served" and every single party involved agrees you have paid your debt above and beyond the terms of sentencing and deserve a license again, there's simply no one in authority to figure out how to enforce their own laws. It's that cluster#ed.

I'm not talking about people that legally have their license revoked for life. That's fine. They probably killed somebody and are in jail anyway. Or people that drive DUI again WITHOUT a license. I'm talking about law abiding US citizens in their 5th, 7th or 10th year of a 3 year suspension still jumping through hoops with no end in sight because they blew .1 at a "check point" outside the TGIFriday's in Cobb Country, Georgia last millennium and nobody at the DMV knows how to work the one-way national database Mother's Against Drunk Drivers set up to prevent "loopholes." After so long, you're not looking for loopholes. You don't belong there. There SHOULD be a solution. Every agency involved thinks so. No matter what those not involved (yet) might think.


reply posted on 25-9-2005 @ 04:21 AM by sigung86
Originally posted by RANT
Originally posted by sigung86
Having seen these types of senseless deaths, and people who are repeatedly bounced for DWI/DUI, and don't lose their driving privileges (privs, not rights), I am all for losing your license for life if you are dumb enough to get into a situation where you just have to drink and drive.


And the misinformation continues. Nobody gets "bounced" now. Everybody is punished. Severely. And even when they do everything they're supposed to do including jail, house arrest, hundreds of hours of community service, tens of thousands of dollars on treatment and re-education, years and years and years without a licence, jumping through hoop after hoop, all of which is contrary to what they were told at sentencing (for a punishment not to legally exceed 3 years), many find themselves in a system with no resolution, nobody in charge, and nobody to turn to. So much of the "punishment" is outsourced now to private probation agencies, AA, a state complicit psychiatric industry, "interlock" shops and a DMV that can't figure out if it's part of the public service or a penal system, that long after a sentence is "served" and every single party involved agrees you have paid your debt above and beyond the terms of sentencing and deserve a license again, there's simply no one in authority to figure out how to enforce their own laws. It's that cluster#ed.

I'm not talking about people that legally have their license revoked for life. That's fine. They probably killed somebody and are in jail anyway. Or people that drive DUI again WITHOUT a license. I'm talking about law abiding US citizens in their 5th, 7th or 10th year of a 3 year suspension still jumping through hoops with no end in sight because they blew .1 at a "check point" outside the TGIFriday's in Cobb Country, Georgia last millennium and nobody at the DMV knows how to work the one-way national database Mother's Against Drunk Drivers set up to prevent "loopholes." After so long, you're not looking for loopholes. You don't belong there. There SHOULD be a solution. Every agency involved thinks so. No matter what those not involved (yet) might think.


I think, Rant, you missed my point. Drink - Drive - Lose your license. End of story.

Your inability to control your impulses and only drink where it is safe to drink and not have to drive to endanger my family, or me with your drinking/driving lunacy is not my issue. If you don't care enough about the possibilities and prospects in your life, and you don't care enough about other people you could possibly endanger, injure, or kill, to show discretion about drinking and driving... Then if you get caught legally drunk and driving... then if you get your license taken away... So what?

Not a problem for me, or to me. If I drink-drive-get caught, and lose my license, that ain't nobodies fault but mine. It is not the state's problem, it's not the court's problem, it is not my dear old sainted great aunt in Miami's problem... It's MY problem. If it's lost forever, then it's because I was stupid about drinking and driving.

I don't know how many different ways to say it. Ultimately, if you are an idiot and do something like that, and you get caught, and you pay the price, it is no one elses fault but yours and you are, essentially, stuck with it.


reply posted on 25-9-2005 @ 07:12 AM by RANT
Originally posted by sigung86
I don't know how many different ways to say it.


I don't either, but I'll try. I understand your desire to proactively punish "future crimes." That's a disturbing populist trend in America right now and largely media driven. But where we're not seeing eye to eye is the absurdity of the current situation.

You seem to think people that officially lost their license forever are whining here. That's not the case. The complaint is a system of sticks and carrots, where the carrot is duct taped to the floor. If presented with a 3 year suspension and hoops X, Y and Z to jump through in order to regain your livelihood, then that's a contract. And it is the responsibility of the authority imposing the stick to honor their end of the bargain (the carrot) when all conditions are met. I'm saying not only do they frequently not honor it, the environment is so convoluted they can't even when they want to more than anything.

This is not a reasonable state response to someone that is legally qualified and OWED a driving license: "We know you're due and have done everything right, but we can't figure out how to work the computer for people that moved. Call back in two years." Then two years later: "Well it's more complicated now than ever. Sorry. Could you help us out by calling Judges, the Attorney General and MADD while you're at it. Start writing letters. Help us fix the system. We really don't know what we're doing here."

If what you were saying was the case, fine. Simply not having a license forever would be better anytime than a full time job as errand boy for the state of Georgia. But if they want people to keep jumping through hoops, there should be a resolution at some point. The problem is a national, federal level database being administered at the state level. These things do not work well together. At all. Especially when nobody is in charge. Not the state. Not the federal government. Not the Judges. Not the AG's. Nobody knows what to do anymore, but they all point to MADD as the source.


reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 11:24 PM by gimmefootball400
Muzz wrote:
Well, I can't say that I support drunk driving, BUT on the other hand I can't say that I support an orginization such as MADD. Being a Firefighter/Paramedic I see people who make the decision to drive drunk die, or become paralyzed, or smash mommy's and daddy's beamer around a telephone pole(I work in a college town.). People have the freedom to drink as much or as little as they deem fit. But they should have to pay the price for doing so. MADD may have been a good orginization at it's inception, but now it's overstepping it's boundries. I think that there should be more done to curb the current trends, I picked up a totally wasted 14 year old girl the other night who went to a party for the sole purpose of getting blasted. Well, she was taken off to some room after getting drunk and was sexually assaulted. Now that's a problem. If MADD was fighting things like that, ok, that fine with me. Plus people driving drunk and destroying their car is just job security for me. LOL. Peace Out. -Muzz



Eternal wrote:
Sh*t F*ck.
I hate this country is so #ing stupid with all their gay laws.
And i heard that new drinking laws where the might raise the drinking age to 24.
And they wonder why there is such a problem with drug!

I guess I'm in the same boat as Muzz is on this topic.
I'm sorry, but it's people like Eternal that give firefighters, paramedics, and cops job security. This is because they are the only people where they HAVE to scrape up your guts off the road because you were a drunken idiot. I myself have seen plenty of wrecks where the drunk killed theirself, someone else, or both him or someone. If you don't like this laws of this country Eternal, then I guess you're screwed buddy.

[edit on 10/5/2005 by gimmefootball400]


reply posted on 15-10-2005 @ 04:04 AM by loam
*coughs*

Um, folks...Did ya know about this?




Debra Bolton spent months fighting a DUI charge. In D.C., a blood alcohol reading of .01 can result in arrest. (By Susan Biddle -- The Washington Post)

Single Glass of Wine Immerses D.C. Driver in Legal Battle


By Brigid Schulte
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 12, 2005; Page A01

Debra Bolton had a glass of red wine with dinner. That's what she told the police officer who pulled her over. That's what the Intoxilyzer 5000 breath test indicated -- .03, comfortably below the legal limit.

She had been pulled over in Georgetown about 12:30 a.m. for driving without headlights. She apologized and explained that the parking attendant must have turned off her vehicle's automatic-light feature.

Bolton thought she might get a ticket. Instead, she was handcuffed, searched, arrested, put in a jail cell until 4:30 a.m. and charged with driving under the influence of alcohol.

Bolton, 45, an energy lawyer and single mother of two who lives in Alexandria, had just run into a little-known piece of D.C. law: In the District, a driver can be arrested with as little as .01 blood-alcohol content.

As D.C. police officer Dennis Fair, who arrested Bolton on May 15, put it in an interview recently: "If you get behind the wheel of a car with any measurable amount of alcohol, you will be dealt with in D.C. We have zero tolerance. . . . Anything above .01, we can arrest."

Neither the police department nor the attorney general's office keeps detailed records of how many people with low blood alcohol levels are arrested. But last year, according to police records, 321 people were arrested for driving under the influence with blood alcohol levels below the legal limit of .08. In 2003, 409 people were arrested.

Although low blood alcohol arrests have been made in other states in conjunction with dangerous driving, lawyers, prosecutors and advocates of drunken driving prevention said they knew of no place besides the District that had such a low threshold for routine DUI arrests. In Maryland and Virginia, as in other states, drivers generally are presumed not to be intoxicated if they test below .05. Nationwide, .08 is the legal limit -- meaning a driver is automatically presumed to be intoxicated.

Fair acknowledged that many people aren't aware of the District's policy. "But it is our law," he said. "If you don't know about it, then you're a victim of your own ignorance."

much, much more....



This has created quite the stir in DC....

Angry calls and e-mails.

D.C. Councilwoman Wants To Change Law On DUI Arrests

Now also consider the number of liquor licenses issued within the District of Columbia...You can even look them up here. Kinda makes it too risky to go to dinner there, don't ya think?

Oh, and I'd avoid using mouthwash in DC, as well...


Breath alcohol values following mouthwash use.

CONCLUSION--The decay of BrAVs following mouthwash use is sufficiently rapid that mouthwash use would not pose a realistic threat to the accuracy of blood alcohol determinations by breath analysis under normal circumstances. Use of mouthwash immediately prior to breath testing, as might occur in the car or workplace in a mistaken attempt to hide the smell of alcohol or other substances, may, however, significantly increase the measured BrAV.


Or any of these:

Some of the things that cause early "spikes" in the readout are menthol tobacco (smokeless), mints, lozenges, denture adhesive, lip balm, breath spray, recent dental work, asthma inhalers, and pepper spray...

In fact, it just may be safer not to visit the District of Columbia- ever!

Oh, and one last thought, I guess Bush is lucky he has a driver...



Bush Drinking Again?


[edit on 15-10-2005 by loam]
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