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Is this picture evidence of Ancient Abrahamic Qaneh-Bos'm?

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posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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I was reading through the "Eastern Orthodox Theology" page in Wikipedia, when I came upon a painting called the "Hospitality of Abraham", also supposedly 'symbolizing the trinity'. I zoomed in, and wanted to share my opinion and get your opinion.



This is one version, extremely high resolution. The stick in each man's hands ends at the bottom with a "dipper" or "cup" shaped brown shape. I could only think of two things: a very early censor, which looks all fancy usually hanging from a chain, or a very long, wooden pipe (think opium pipe though not for opiunm, long and slender). You've got a bowl of something sitting in the middle of the table, and all 3 men have a stick with the big thing on the end of it. One is reaching for it with 2 fingers raised up.

Here is another version of the picture with more detail:


On this second image, note that the top end of each stick is shaped just the tiniest bit wider or thicker, to indicate perhaps it was an opening? I considered it to be the bottom of their other foot, but then sat in that same position myself, and saw that it was extremely uncomfortable on the ankle, and they have no shoes, while the things at the bottom of the stick has lines going across it.

Now, theres admittedly no smoke in the picture, but it could've been right before they burnt the offering you see. Theres a conspiracy that Qaneh Bos'm, which is old hebrew for Cannabis or "Fragrant Cane", was changed by the Catholic Church during translation into a word for "Sweet Cane" to mask the use of it in the early Chuch and in Judaism. The idea is that instead of -just- using it in the annointing oil, they also burnt it with burnt offerings inside of tents so the smoke would trap among them in the tent, or some extremes of it talk of the Old Prophets actually using smoking utensils and directly burning it by themselves, but this is not found in the Bible or Jewish Writings.

I know, it could be anything, but since everyone is holding one of those weird , long pipe shaped items, I just don't know what it is depicting, exactly. Do you have an idea? Were it a censor, you'd think there'd be hot smoking fiery stuff in the bowl, not some mashed up brown stuff. And you'd also think there would be fire or flame depicted rising out of the component at the end of the sticks.

[edit on 11/29/2007 by runetang]




posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 08:52 AM
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this is just another SUN CULT- symbolism.

i am not sure, but they represet planets, that at some point will collide, or unite with the sun, SUN=JESUS,.

the two fingers represent the ages before this collide will happen.[this is astrology not astronomy], ages like aquarius, pisis, etc.[see zeitgesit formore info.

THE STICKS, it represents wisdom, what i mean by that, old people wisdom. this means, the oldest planets will unite or collide with the sun.

PURE SUN CULT SYMBOLISM
[--this is not astronomy
[is pure crap from astrology and the SUN CULT]

is not a prediction, is kind of astrology spiritual crap.




[edit on 29-11-2007 by Drzava]



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 08:56 AM
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Oh dear, please no Zeitgeist groupies coming in here talking about Jesus didn't exist and that he is symbolically the SUN which is a word we coined that has absolutely nothing to do with the word "Son" nor in its meaning or root.

I watched that Zeitgeist movie, and I found it to be an incredibly weak and stretched argument, going for each and every far fetched "ancient egyptian cult" symbolism they could get their hands on. It's just weak. It's weak like loose change is weak. And it's wrong on 99% of its presentations.

I'm not going to argue about it because I dont want the thread to degenerate into a Zeitgeist argument, but can you please keep it on topic or not post at all next time? Because its hard for some people to refrain, and although I'm doing so, if more people joined it this would indeed become a waste of thread.

The topic! people .. the topic..



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by runetang
 



well, i was talking about the paiting, isnt that the topic?



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 09:17 AM
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From an illustrators perspective, those do appear to be the feet. What you have to realize though, is that the artist who painted this was obviously not that good with anatomy. Do have any info on when it was done, as that could help explain it better? The artist looks as if they didn't now how to draw the crossed legs to match the feet(a common mistake in alot of old artworks). I think they are smoking possibly, but those are thier feet. I have seen pipes just like that(long with a larger end for packing a smokable into).



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by runetang
 




Oh dear, please no Zeitgeist groupies coming in here talking about Jesus didn't exist and that he is symbolically the SUN which is a word we coined that has absolutely nothing to do with the word "Son" nor in its meaning or root.


Your entire post to this individual was more than a little rude, wasn't it? You asked for opinions and he gave his. Yet because you didn't like it you have the right to demand only opinions you care about?

I wasn't going to bring it up because I was actually interested in the subject matter of your post. But since you were so scathing and derogatory of anyone who might find any merit in anything in Zeitgeist, and toward that other poster's opinion on your painting I'd like to hear exactly how Zeitgeist is 99% wrong and weak please.

disclaimer: Yes, I have seen Zeitgeist. However, I don't know if everything in it was true or not, however I do think they made some interesting points.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 10:33 AM
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This thread is about the possible use and subseqent suppression of "pot smoking" in christianity, not how christianity or its beliefs were formed. "Zeitgeist" is off-topic, as it has nothing to do with the op's thoughts on what these images represent, in any way.

So far the OP has brought attention to the substance on the table(possibly hashish?), the long stick like objects(possibly smoking implements?), and what the OP thought could represent a hookah, which I thought was just a poorly drawn foot(ie bad anatomy on the side of the artist). How is Zeitgeist even brought up here?



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by LordBaskettIV
 


You're absolutely correct. My question on the thread-starter's opinions on Zeitgeist is withdrawn.

However, the creators of that movie didn't invent those ideas. They've been around a long, long time. Someone using that movie as a reference to give their opinion on a painting seems just as valid as any other opinion on the subject. For the thread-starter to state he doesn't want those opinions seems...wrong.

Unfortunately for what could potentially be an interesting topic I think it may violate the rules as far as marijuana posts go. I read a thread by SkepticOverlord stating he didn't want posts on the boards about marijuana because the conversation gets over-run by the stoner types. I hope it falls within the acceptable thread topics though.

edit: to change ARE to IS, and add my final paragraph

[edit on 11/29/07 by Malynn]

[edit on 11/29/07 by Malynn]



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 11:04 AM
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If you want a more indepth look at the historical beliefs of some very religious folks in regard to cannabis..and the battle with the authorities concerning same, Google " Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church " and find the homepage. And old friend named Carl Olson is in the midst of a historical legal battle on this very subject, being represented by the Rutherford Institute in Federal and State cases. Very intersting reading at minimum.

In his cases he proves the connection between cannabis and the holy oils used for blessing and annointing back in the old days, and the stories of the uses of this plant are amazing in historical terms alone. The uses in worship, burned in place of insense or with it..also many other medical uses known for centuries. I recommend a look.

On a side note: I learned recently the details of the trenascript of the hearing back in 1938 when the government made cannabis illegal. The only witness to object to the passage of the bill was the . of the American Medical Association, a Dr. Robertson I believe, who asked the politicians WHY they had planned and formulated this bill IN SECRET for two years before bringing it out with a weeks notice..He also stated that the medical profession was aghast that this " NEW " 'killer weed from Mexico was in fact the Cannabis / Hemp plant, well known for over a century in modern medicine as a safe and effective remedy for a variety of ailments. It was used in compounds widely in all of pharmocopiae, and the hemp plant was the most effective one known to man.

But the politicians would have none of it and dismissed the doctor angry that he had the temerity to counter their plans!! It is really sick reading: to imagine a corporate bribery scheme so thorough that an entire industry was wiped out and high cost, oil and pulp based economies were protected, at the cost of us all, in uncounted millions of dollars, now billions. It was all in fact a set up, and now that has been proven beyond any doubt: but in America just being right and having proof of it does not mean aquat when the representatives of the people are beholden to the money and not the truth.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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Thats why I only made comments on the bad anatomical structures and the possibility of it just being a foot(specificly if it predates the 14-1500's). There is really no way to identify the substance on the table or even what the people are holding without directly asking the dead artist what it was supposed to be. I was trying to stay far away from any drug speculation really(due to the TOS). I could probably draw what the original artist was trying to do with the feet. It's just a badly drawn reclined position of the feet.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 12:00 PM
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Runetang, it is theorized that John of Patmos was on soma when he had his visions... Now, whether that is true, I know not. However, I think it fits fairly well with your OP...



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by runetang
 


just have to say you don't need zeitgeist to point out that jesus probably didn't exist...
you just need to point out the nearly complete lack of historical accounts of him.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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Madness, how bout staying on topic? Hmmmm



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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I found something rather interesting that is somewhat related to what you are talking about here, Runetang. Here is an excerpt and a link to the guy's blog.


My Bayani Gnostic Universalism and the Baha'i Wars aside, I am as well an active and vocal Ayahuasquero and a political Green. I believe this Plant Medicine and Teacher originating from the indigenous cultures of the Amazon is the Soma spoken of in the Rg Vedas, the Haoma of the ancient Mazdaean religion of Iran and the Manna of the Children of Israel in the Sina'i. Interestingly enough, that Pauline Christian interpolation of the Qumran texts the War Scroll and the War of the Sons of Light with the Sons of Darkness - namely, the so-called synoptical Book of Revelation of the New Testament attributed to John of Patmos - also speaks of the return of Manna as one of the signs of the 'end times'. While many spiritual communities, creeds and practices shun the use of drugs and narcotics - as they rightfully should - Ayahuasca I consider not to be a drug or narcotic at all, but rather an entheogen and one of the most sacred infusions from the natural world, whose knowledge, I hold, was sent down to humanity as Revelation from the God. through the Holy Spirit directly millenia ago (Heb. Shekhinah, Ara. Sakina). Archeological evidence for the indigenous use of Ayahuasca in the Amazonia has been dated to 3000 BCE while oral traditions relate its use going back up to 40,000 years ago. Currently the ritual and traditional use of Ayahuasca is being utilized in the effective treatment (and cure, in many cases) of terminal diseases like cancer as well as drug addictions like heroine and coc aine, not to mention deep seated psychiatric conditions, such as schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders, by the Takiwasi Institute in Peru. Several psychedelic Christian Churches from Brazil - namely, the Santo Daime and UdV - were spawned in the early part of the last century as a result of their encounter with Ayahuasca, both of whom consider Ayahuasca to be the Second Coming of Christ as a pre-established fact. It is my considered belief - nay, absolute certainty and gnosis - that the Feminine Spirit which animates and manifests within the Ayahuasca state is none other than the Shekina/Sakina Herself, i.e. the Feminine Theophany of the God. (or Holy Spirit). Readers may note that my model of the Qabbalistic Tree of 13 Spheres and 36 Pathways (i.e. the Tree of Reality) was gifted by the Spirit of the Ayahuasca Itself to me personally in July 2005.
Spiritual



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by Malynn
 


Yes I came off kind of rude, and I apologize for being so strong in my opinion expressed of Zeitgeist. I could be seen as a prick and I am sorry, you got me.

reply to everyone else:

It may indeed be the foot. You can access the pictures by going to Wikipedia and typing "Eastern Orthodox Christianity" into the search bar, they are a ways down on the page. I believe the first picture is by a Sergei someone .. sorry.

That is very interesting about the Ethiopic Church. The logical viewpoint, religion aside, is this. They grew it EN MASSE, all cultures that were seafaring grew marijuana for the specific purpose of the stems, "hemp", because it makes AWESOME rope for the sea, the properties of the sea do not affect hemp rope much. This is its' historic purpose, even as recently as the British Colonial Era when Britain was growing it for this same purpose, ships.

Now they have to allow the plants to blossom and the bud to form and flower, so we can know for a certainty they came into direct contact with hemp plants at various levels of growth, some with buds and flowers. People like Peter Simon, the Disciple, The Fisherman, would grow their own and make their own ropes, or purchase the rope making material. So why would they just throw out the buds and flowers and not experiment with it in any way shape or form, especially considering the fragrance of the flowers to which the name was given "fragrant cane" . Gee, fragrant stuff should go into the special oil .. no brainer there. Gotta grow it anyway to be seaborne back then.

As to the Soma stuff, that is also very interesting. I have read about Soma the ancient drink of the Vedic religion, drink of the Gods! I cant believe they lost which plant it truly was. I have a theory, but it is weak. Modern day opium poppy grows all over where this culture used to be, so maybe it was a drink made from that? That would induce visions, sleepy dream like ones, but I cant picture all the crazy evil stuff in Revelation coming from an "O" Dream, heh.

Very good interesting stuff guys and gals! I am impressed.

[edit on 11/29/2007 by runetang]



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 06:22 AM
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"An offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD"!

If you don't have Itz, you can't be Ch'ul!

It's 4:20 and the LORD is getting ripped! Party at God's house! Woo!



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 12:04 PM
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ALL parts of the hemp/cannabis plant were harvested and used for a variety of purposes. None was wasted. It makes the finest oils possible, and the best paper, and fabric, etc, for a plant with its growing parameters and how wide spread it grows. The medicinal properties were wel know and when modern medicine came along in the 1800's and experimenting began in earnest, almost 80% of ALL pharmaceutical compounds had cannabis/hemp compounds in them. It was well known and widespread.

Every home knew about hemp and the patent medicines that contained it. Known as a safe and efficacious substance, it had never ( and still had never ) caused any serious reaction or even ONE death in all of recorded history. There is only ONE reason why this miracle plant was demonized and made illegal, and the answer to that is fact and well known by all who can read. I will not go into the proof here, but I have it if anyone wants it and is too lazy to study it for themselves. just read " The Emperor Has No Clothes ", by Jack Herer for the full story, or try the Congressional Record for the sick transcripts that tell us all we ned to know about the bribery and schemes that took place in 1938 to deprive history of the best plant on earth.

In any event, cannabis ( Kaneh - Bosem ) has indeed been an intergral part of medicine and cuture and religion for all of recorded history, and only the recent shame of official corruption and lies and greed has turned a gift of God into a hunted and hated enemy of the men who love only Gold.. Shame on them.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 06:48 AM
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For perspective - Byzantine iconography does not depict human beings in their "natural form" because it is merely a representation of the person, not a photograph. The anatomical structures are therefore purposefully not exact. The "sticks" are actually staff - similar to what a shepherd would carry, and if you look closely, they have angels wings. There is nothing related to smoking pot or anything else... sorry. If you are interested in learning more about Byzantine Iconography (by the way, icons are written, not painted), go here.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 07:05 AM
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One simple prove that Christ is alive is that everybody argues about Him. He is our problem, even we believein Him or not, even we are with Him or against Him. And all this because He is so alive. Because He is The Life.

Sorin




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