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Teacher charged over "Muhammed" The Teddy Bear! *Craziness to tha max*

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posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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WiseSheep stop proselytizing and antagonizing, if you have nothing better to do in this forum than be an intolerable Christhumper than just get out.

Your posts make me genocidal. e__e;;

[edit on 12/5/2007 by Kacen]




posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by Kacen
WiseSheep stop proselytizing and antagonizing, ....


Sorry Kacen, but have you taken the time to look up what this means:


Proselytize \Pros"e*ly*tize\, v. i.
To make converts or proselytes.
[1913 Webster]


I don't have the power, nor ability to do this. While a man could persuade one to convert to some odd religion. The circumcision of the heart is out of man's control.


Originally posted by Kacen
if you have nothing better to do in this forum than be an intolerable Christhumper than just get out.


On who's behalf do you speak? I have siblings in high places that have a love for the truth. Their position of authority has them needing to be a little more politically correct than I do, in the position I am.

Take it up with them.


Originally posted by Kacen
Your posts make me genocidal. e__e;;


If your devils get grumpy, that's their business entirely.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
...
Dirt is the corruptible so is the unregenerate spirit which is a child of satan by default. The regenerated spirit is the incorruptible.
...

I would have you define corruptible for me if you would be so kind. (^_-)

Taking you literally (rather than metaphorically), all things physical have the potential to be corrupted. Water for example - do you believe this most holy of His gifts, the substance our bodies are over 60% of, blessed by priests (ever hear of holy water?), was the foundation of life on our planet (i.e. the ocean), and is even more necessary for our continued existence than food - can be anything less than Love (i.e. God)?

And yet, there are lakes, streams, and even parts of the ocean which are polluted, defiled, and (yes!) corrupted. Was it satan who corrupted them?

An easy and pat answer to that question (of course) is yes! But (of course), as you would most likely agree with me, the easy path is rarely His path in this world 'at this point in time' (ATPIT). Blaming a figure outside of ourselves for the pains we endure is taking not only our choice away, but separates us from His very presence!

To me it is quite obvious that having a satan figure is only a method of us giving away our responsibility for our own actions. You know the old excuse, "The devil made me do it!" That is a sure-fire way to feel powerless and become a pawn of this perceived satan, and as I know from first hand experience, anything we have faith in (i.e. believe in) becomes real to us - even if it does not exist. Just ask a child about the boogey man to see what I am referring to.

The satan of old is nothing more than a boogey man, even though the belief in him has created very real difficulties, pains, and sufferings.

If one believes (i.e. has faith) in satan, one can hardly believe (i.e. have faith) in God. As has been said by very many, man cannot serve two masters. There is either only Him or there is nothing (i.e. the illusion of a separation, the illusion of a distant god and a hands-on satan).

Love, when centered on Itself (that whichis Real), it is uncorruptible.
Love, when centered on something outside of Itself (that whichis illusion), corruption seeps in.

Perhaps I have been too straightforward in my expressions for you to accept my point of view with an open mind, but I believe sugarcoating or dancing around a subject can only breed fear (particularly in me) and thus I just say it how it is (from my point of view, of course).


Originally posted by WiseSheep
...
All men are called to repent and turn to Jesus Christ. Without HIM in you, there is no salvation or life.

If you truly feel at peace placing a man (i.e. Jesus Christ) before Him (i.e. God), then I implore you to continue the path you walk... and if you feel anything other than Love, Peace, Tranquility, and Serenity... perhaps He would like you to change your mind. (^_-)



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by Kacen
 


*hugs*

Rough day at the office? (^_-)



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAce
I would have you define corruptible for me if you would be so kind. (^_-)


Corruptible/Corrupted. Anything polluted by sin. The fall of man.

If a man isn't born again, he has his natural state inherited from Adam. A corrupt thing who's spiritual father is satan. This accounts for nearly everybody you see.

Since they are of their father, he can speak through them, guide them and use them to do anything. They have no clue they are being used. He can manipulate them to believe, and support anything. Well, back to the topic, just look at Islam for crying out loud.

These people don't have understanding enough to know what they are following. They are just being led around by their father.


Originally posted by TrueAce
Taking you literally (rather than metaphorically), all things physical have the potential to be corrupted.


Yes but you are looking at the video trying to explain the holy time line who is set apart from the video and incorruptible.


Originally posted by TrueAce
Was it satan who corrupted them?


It was satan who enticed man to sin and therefore handing over what was man's to satan, including man.

This is where GOD sending his only son into the world to purchase us back comes into play.

Now the world is bought back. All authority in heaven and earth is given to Jesus.


Originally posted by TrueAce
To me it is quite obvious that having a satan figure is only a method of us giving away our responsibility for our own actions. You know the old excuse, "The devil made me do it!"


Actually the way it's used in the bible, the term satan and the way the greek word diabolos is used, are pretty much the same. Means adversary. So some people's version of "GOD" is really satan and some people's version of "satan" is really GOD.

That will get sorted out in the end. The wheat and the darnel if you will.


So really if one isn't born again. Their nature is satan, in it's literal sense. "The devil made me do it." is nonsense. You made you do it.

This "nature" works together like clockwork in some instances and is the enemy of GOD.


Originally posted by TrueAce
Love, when centered on Itself (that whichis Real), it is uncorruptible.


Yes GOD is Love. In it's perfect form.


Originally posted by TrueAce
Perhaps I have been too straightforward in my expressions for you to accept my point of view with an open mind


If you've tasted the things I have, trust me, your mind would be welded shut on it too. You after tasting it would then most likely do as I and attempt to spread the word so others could partake.

I wish every man/woman alive would taste the things that I taste. See the things that I see and hear the things that I've been given to hear.

However that is a gift from GOD and all I can do is tell you to turn to him, seek him and in his timing if he wills, he'll show you.


Originally posted by TrueAce
If you truly feel at peace placing a man (i.e. Jesus Christ) before Him (i.e. God)


You cannot know the father and not the son. They are one.

If you know any other, don't be surprised when he takes you to the lake with him.



posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
...
Since they are of their father, he can speak through them, guide them and use them to do anything. They have no clue they are being used. He can manipulate them to believe, and support anything.
...
These people don't have understanding enough to know what they are following. They are just being led around by their father.
...

Ah, coincidence abounds I see! It seems we share the same view, but use different definitions of the same thing.

To myself, the equivalent of 'satan' is the ego. I define ego as the myopic, selfish, petty, insecure, hostile, 'voices' (i.e. thoughts) in my head that 'needs-to-be-right' all the time and is constantly and consistently trying to prove that I am better than everyone else while paradoxically at the same time convincing me I am the trash of the world, powerless over my surroundings.

I prefer the term ego as it focuses my attention that every 'voice' I hear and experience is inside me and IS me. In my experiences, when I condemned the 'voices' that were less-than-Love, I would begin to judge others as well as myself, and in turn would grow increasingly unconscious of them. They would still occur, but I would not be aware of them and things would happen that seemed automatic and beyond my control (much akin to what you were just describing). When I accepted these 'voices' as my own and accepted that only Love (i.e. God) could bring me back to sanity, their power over me waned and has been diminishing ever since.

To me (as you so eloquently put in another fashion), this is a creation of the world (rather than of God). As a child I was confused by my surroundings, as I saw the adults of the world and even my own parents acting what my child's mind could only put as odd. Some inner part of me knew that we (humanity) were meant to live in Love and was baffled by their lack of awareness of it (which I innately knew was all around me). When I asked questions about their peculiar behavior, I was told to be quiet and to focus on mundane things. I learned quickly that they had lost their awareness of what was going on, and promptly developed a barrier between me and the rest of the adults in order to shield my point of view and maintain the awareness that they were slaves to the ego... or as you put it, were being manipulated unknowingly by satan.

I slowly came to accept parts of the ego over time. Part of me (the part I shielded) knew better, and in many ways my consciousness became split. I 'acted' like I was going along with them in most cases, but only did so to gain the acceptance of the adults that ran my world. Over time, I grew to despise myself as I knew I was faking what I truly was... and over more time I began to lose touch entirely with the shielded part of me, as my 'act' became all I could remember being.

As I have experienced, ego was not in me at my birth - it was grown and fostered by the world around me. It is why I am so adamant when I say that ego (i.e. satan) is a creation of the world and a creation of man (an illusion) rather than a creation of God.

Quoting Shakespeare, "The sins of the father are to be laid upon the children."

I find this as meaning that unless our parents have encountered the ego, saw in truth what it is, and then accepted Love in place of it (i.e. accepting in mind, body, and spirit that there is only God), we will have the same challenge as our parents - which would be to encounter the ego in pursuit of Love.

To further expound on this, it would be an easy thing for me to blame my parents for not encountering their ego and accepting Love in its place. To be honest, I did - for a long time... "If only they had been willing to put the effort forth that I am willing - I would already KNOW and FEEL my oneness with God!" Or so I told myself. It took me a great deal of time to accept that it was not they who had created my submission to the ego... It was me.

I'll continue...




posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 02:35 AM
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Funnily enough, I have something I would love to share with you...
But before I do that, I would enjoy answering you directly before I go off on tangents we probably already agree upon. (^_-)


Originally posted by WiseSheep
Yes but you are looking at the video trying to explain the holy time line who is set apart from the video and incorruptible.

You are awfully quick to judge that I am looking from the perspective of the video... And even if I am, you are awfully quick to say that you are looking from the perspective of the holy time line...

I believe the holy time line can reveal itself through the video, and (unless my memory is mistaken) you have said the very same thing. To look at the video is a very valid way to better understand the holy time line - but only once faith in the holy time line is established and one is looking for the holy time line in the video.

LOL - I am just realizing that WiseSheep and I are probably the only ones understanding all of this jazz about this 'time line' and 'video' stuff. If anyone else is curious I would be more than happy to explain, but ATPIT I am under the impression that this sharing of information is only between the three of us. (^_-)


Originally posted by WiseSheep
It was satan who enticed man to sin and therefore handing over what was man's to satan, including man.

This is where GOD sending his only son into the world to purchase us back comes into play.

Now the world is bought back. All authority in heaven and earth is given to Jesus.

It was purchased back by his EXAMPLE.
That is all I will say about this ATPIT. (^_^)


Originally posted by WiseSheep
Actually the way it's used in the bible, the term satan and the way the greek word diabolos is used, are pretty much the same. Means adversary. So some people's version of "GOD" is really satan and some people's version of "satan" is really GOD.

That will get sorted out in the end. The wheat and the darnel if you will.

People will use any label that creates a certain amount of comfort to them. If they are following the ego and calling it god that is their lesson. As you say, it will get sorted out in the end...

Hmm... An interesting turn of events!
There is no room in my reality for an 'adversary' of God - unless that 'adversary' is an illusion... so if you say that satan is in fact nothing (not of God, and thus an illusion) then I am in total agreement with you.



Originally posted by WiseSheep
So really if one isn't born again. Their nature is satan, in it's literal sense. "The devil made me do it." is nonsense. You made you do it.

This "nature" works together like clockwork in some instances and is the enemy of GOD.

BINGO! (^_^)

I believe we are in total agreement! The entire speech I made about 'the devil made me do it' was just to display the point that you displayed! It IS nonsense! We are responsible for our own choices, and thus, all of us, at any point in time, are capable of being 'born again' as you call it! ... Of course I say that loosely, as dedication, effort, and faith are needed to overcome this 'challenge' but no-one on this earth is prohibited from being 'born again'.


Originally posted by WiseSheep
If you've tasted the things I have, trust me, your mind would be welded shut on it too. You after tasting it would then most likely do as I and attempt to spread the word so others could partake.
...

I would argue that after one is 'born again' an open mind is a natural state of being... and I would also argue that your mind is far from welded shut. You are talking to me after all, aren't you? (^_-)

Perhaps you meant that your mind is beyond the call of the ego (as I put it)?

...more continuations...




posted on Dec, 6 2007 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by TrueAce
Ah, coincidence abounds I see! It seems we share the same view, but use different definitions of the same thing.


Close.


Originally posted by TrueAce
To myself, the equivalent of 'satan' is the ego.


Question. Is it at all possible that you have created to yourself a "satan" in your own mind/inner man/soul/consciousness? Based on your environment from the beginning and your own understanding?

As you went on to say. "You define." Is it at all possible that what you define and what the creator defines are two totally different things? Although they may in a few points closely resemble each other.


Originally posted by TrueAce
When I accepted these 'voices' as my own and accepted that only Love (i.e. God) could bring me back to sanity, their power over me waned and has been diminishing ever since.


Do you think it is possible that you have created and/or accepted a counterfeit?

Example, well as Jesus made mention of how the father equally takes care of the just and unjust.

If one who doesn't know him, embraces certain things that produce certain positive results in their life. That has nothing to do with him.

Jesus said that many would come to him in the end saying how they have done all these good works in his name and he will tell them that he never knew them. They will be sent where all the others go.

Now if one embraces this principal of 'love'. That's dandy, however that is one's own doing separate from him, and he won't know you.

This works for you because it is the way the place was setup to work. In the same sense that if you pour water on a seed in dirt it will sprout. That same seed would sprout for an evil man, or somewhat of a decent man, though there are none.

While the principle may produce beneficial results, it is done separate from GOD and denying him.


Originally posted by TrueAce
I slowly came to accept parts of the ego over time.


It's in every man from birth. Whether a thimble full or a dump truck load, it's there.


Originally posted by TrueAce
Part of me (the part I shielded) knew better, and in many ways my consciousness became split. I 'acted' like I was going along with them in most cases, but only did so to gain the acceptance of the adults that ran my world.


I can relate to that. Your final conclusion either is or probably will be that performing in order to impress fellow man is useless.


Originally posted by TrueAce
As I have experienced, ego was not in me at my birth - it was grown and fostered by the world around me.


Where ever a plant grows that is evidence that there was a seed.


Originally posted by TrueAce
It is why I am so adamant when I say that ego (i.e. satan) is a creation of the world and a creation of man (an illusion) rather than a creation of God.


The nature was created in man when he fell. Adam reproduced after the fall, therefore all after him carry this nature.

This nature includes spiritual blindness. Separate from GOD and unable to access the time line except the time line reach through the video, into the character and reveal himself. At which time a grown man can become a child.

The problem is most characters have created their own time line in their minds, but there is only one time line and one counterfeit in many flavors.


Originally posted by TrueAce
Quoting Shakespeare, "The sins of the father are to be laid upon the children."


Not in this covenant. Everyone shall die for his own iniquity.


Originally posted by TrueAce
You are awfully quick to judge that I am looking from the perspective of the video...


Should an apple say to the orange, "You are awfully quick to judge that I am an apple!"


Originally posted by TrueAce
And even if I am, you are awfully quick to say that you are looking from the perspective of the holy time line...


None see the whole thing, no. If I say I see the entire time line, anyone should come to the conclusion that I am full of it.


If the currency the time line has given me, whether it be one dollar or five thousand, reveals another attempting to use counterfeit.

Wouldn't one be quick to point that out? Only in a loving attempt to get the one using counterfeit to go to the time line and get the real thing.

The counterfeit is useless.


Originally posted by TrueAce
I believe the holy time line can reveal itself through the video, and (unless my memory is mistaken) you have said the very same thing. To look at the video is a very valid way to better understand the holy time line - but only once faith in the holy time line is established and one is looking for the holy time line in the video.


That reasons decent.



Originally posted by TrueAce
LOL - I am just realizing that WiseSheep and I are probably the only ones understanding all of this jazz about this 'time line' and 'video' stuff. If anyone else is curious I would be more than happy to explain, but ATPIT I am under the impression that this sharing of information is only between the three of us. (^_-)


I have this fascination with parables. Can't help it.

If somebody cares enough, they'll figure it out.


Originally posted by TrueAce
It was purchased back by his EXAMPLE.


If you were to look into him, you'd find something different.


Originally posted by TrueAce
People will use any label that creates a certain amount of comfort to them.


Such as 'ego'?

In my case, it's not about comfort on my part. It's about what the creator has revealed in me along side what's written. As before, if you look into him, you'd find something different.


Originally posted by TrueAce
If they are following the ego and calling it god that is their lesson. As you say, it will get sorted out in the end...


satan has this false sense of love that he uses to pacify those he has deceived too.


Originally posted by TrueAce
There is no room in my reality for an 'adversary' of God


The question is, is your reality, reality?


Originally posted by TrueAce
We are responsible for our own choices, and thus, all of us, at any point in time, are capable of being 'born again' as you call it!


Birthing a counterfeit yes. If it's the creator's work. He does it in his timing. The spirit he gives doesn't contradict itself. It is one.


Originally posted by TrueAce
You are talking to me after all, aren't you? (^_-)


Will a shepherd not leave the herd and pursue after one who is lost?



posted on Dec, 7 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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...continuing later...
(because you brought up valid points I'd like to address first)


Originally posted by WiseSheep
As you went on to say. "You define." Is it at all possible that what you define and what the creator defines are two totally different things? Although they may in a few points closely resemble each other.

I very muchso agree, but I have gotten the impression that others (who come from an ego perspective) will discredit and disregard a person who claims to have God thinking and perceiving FOR them...



Ah, thank you for helping me come to terms with that painful reality (illusion). I have always used that language (i.e. in my opinion, in my beliefs, what I perceive, etc) for the sake of attempting to communicate what I will below, but I realize now that much of it has caused separation in myself from Him...

Let me continue my explanation so I know I am perfectly understood:

From this point forward in my interactions with you (about 'cosmic' laws, lacking a better word), I will refrain from using the phrases "I believe" and such. I will state things as they are, for in all honesty - THEY ARE. My beliefs dictate my REALITY (as does everyone's) - and while I know it is only the Creator's reality (i.e. actuality) that is REAL, I still have realities I need to align with actuality before I can claim complete alignment. When my reality becomes actuality (when my mind is perfectly aligned with my Creator's Mind), I will only know Peace, Serenity, Abundance, Security, Adventure, Stability, Love, etc.

*The Creator is Love - for all things, as all things are His Creation.
*The Creator and His Creations are One - they are inseparable.

Choice is the lesson we are experiencing as human beings. Under the illusion of physical reality, His Creations have the CHOICE to separate themselves from Him, their Creator and Source of Life. Because the Creator is Love, Love must respect the choice His Creations make, even if they choose something other than Him (which would be illusion).

*One experiences hell when one believes in any illusion.
*One experiences Heaven when one believes only in Truth.

My Creator's Mind and my own are One more often than not ATPIT. My mind becomes One with the Creator's Mind ONLY when I am clear of ego and its perceptions. When I am perceiving/viewing/observing/judging the world, its inhabitants, and myself in Love (whichis the Creator), I am One with my Creator. Thus, I am CHOOSING Him over illusion.

We exist in time-space for a reason - to USE it in order to align our minds with His and see the cause and effect nature of our choices. Since I have used the ego to think FOR me for such a great period of time, it will take discipline, commitment, and faith in my Creator to align my mind with His. As my mind is accustomed to being separate from Him, it will naturally gravitate toward ego... until through my discipline and commitment to Him, becomes accustomed to only Him and thus His Mind will be the only one I know.

Verily, it is not me (the ego) who aligns my mind with the Creator, it is the Creator Himself that aligns my mind with His. My complete surrender to Him is all that is needed of me, for He will create the miracles of change that follow. In many ways, it is the ego (our satan-self, Lucifer incarnate) realizing that He has been right all along and that He only allowed us to choose differently because He is Love. I (the ego) realize that I am powerless to create happiness for myself without Him. Only upon this realization can the ego surrender entirely, as anything before it will only be partial.

The Creator allows partial surrender (as He is Love), but happiness is fleeting in such circumstances and the hell created from that choice can be twice as confusing if one is unknowing they are only in partial surrender. Such was my fate for a great deal of time...

Again, I thank you for exposing the illusion I mentioned above!


(to be continued)



posted on Dec, 7 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAce
I very muchso agree, but I have gotten the impression that others (who come from an ego perspective) will discredit and disregard a person who claims to have God thinking and perceiving FOR them...


Natural reasoning rejects faith too. It can't touch it. That is one minor test.


Originally posted by TrueAce


Ah, thank you for helping me come to terms with that painful reality (illusion).


Hopefully the pain will ease.


Originally posted by TrueAce
I have always used that language (i.e. in my opinion, in my beliefs, what I perceive, etc) for the sake of attempting to communicate what I will below, but I realize now that much of it has caused separation in myself from Him...


How we say things doesn't change reality. What we say reveals what reality is to us. Does it not?

My pitiful attempt was to point out that you and "him" are one. That you have created this god of "love" in your heart, which is YOU and not him.

Everybody has a god. The question is which god does everybody have?

Depending on what reality is to you provides evidence as to which god you have.

There is a WIDE road that leads to destruction. Many are locked in on that one, with their cruise set and perfectly content not thinking about what's at the end. Of course that goes back to the one in control of the perception.


Don't know if you've messed with gardening much or not, but if you were to water a spot of soil and nothing came up but a mess of thorns and briars.

Chances are that if you had full control of the water source to them, that you would put a stop it so that they will wither and die, causing no further problems to you. Would you not?

This is also bearing in mind that the water is the only thing that can be controlled at the moment.


Originally posted by TrueAce
Again, I thank you for exposing the illusion I mentioned above!



One thing that has bound to be certain. If everybody has a reality, somebody must have a delusion.



I thank you double for being patient with me. There seems to be just so much to learn from everything and everybody.



posted on Dec, 7 2007 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by WiseSheep
 


What is reasonable depends on what filter is set on one's perceptions (the point of view). If everyone has complete faith in and have surrendered entirely to Love, then it is very reasonable to bear no weapons nor claim ownership over anything because everyone is in complete agreement that there is no need for such trivialities - we give and take care of people, places, and objects freely as they all belong to God. And vice-versa is also true... Reasoning is just a way of determining what is popular (with oneself or with one's collective identity).

Reasoning only rejects faith (in God) when one is unfaithful (in God).

...

What one says (or thinks and believes) shapes reality (the individual's choice of perception).
What one says (or thinks or believes) has absolutely no effect on actuality (God's choice of perception).

And yes, God DOES have a choice - He just chooses to consistently be Himself. (^_-)

As I was attempting to say in so many words beforehand, reality is really just another way of saying how one perceives actuality.

Reality is subjective.
Actuality is objective.

...And the terminology gets murky here... Most human beings (ATPIT) believe that their reality is actuality ('what I perceive is what is real' - I will call Type A) or that actuality is reality ('what is real is what I perceive' - I will call Type B). The Truth is that neither are correct, yet both touch upon a basic Truth about perception in general.

Type A believes that what they perceive is real for everyone.
Type B believes that real is only a frame of reference.

As human beings, we ONLY have our reality - actuality only exists through faith. If one believes (i.e. has faith) that actuality is full of suffering, for that person it is true. That person's reality is one of suffering. Likewise, if one believes that actuality does not exist and that there are only realities of individuals, for that person it is true. That person's reality is one of shapelessness and the only truth to be found is subjective.

I have faith that actuality is a perception based entirely in Love, thus my reality is one where Love is omnipresent. While I believe that my actuality (my reality) is the true actuality, I accept and have room for other people to have their own reality (because Love accepts the choice of people to choose differently).

It also stands to reason that realties only exist in the first place because the one true actuality is that of Love.

To quote a scene from the Matrix...
Commander Lock: "Dammit, Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe!"
Morpheus: "My beliefs do not require them to. "

If you say that my reality is out of alignment with actuality - that is your prerogative. If you say that I will go to hell (and directly go to hell, that I will not pass go, and I will not collect $200) that is your prerogative. If you decide to withhold Love from me, as in you decide to personally condemn me (i.e. "Eat crap and die for all I care, you're not on god's good list") that is still your prerogative... And from firsthand experiences, I know that the Love I withhold for another person is the Love I withhold from myself... but of course, that is my reality. (^_-)

I am a Type C - one that allows others to have their own reality while still believing that there is an actuality to align to. My only way of weighing between actuality (positive, constructive, and happy reality) and reality (negative, destructive, and unhappy reality) is by my feelings - by using the emotional perception organ... the heart.

The heart is the measuring device between ego and the Creator. In ego - I am fearful, hostile, and in pain. In Love - I am courageous, compassionate, and in joy. It is why I consistently say that God is Love - because my feelings are centered in joy and Oneness (what the English language has labeled as the word Love).




posted on Dec, 7 2007 @ 11:48 PM
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(continuing from a prior point)


Originally posted by WiseSheep
You cannot know the father and not the son. They are one.

If you know any other, don't be surprised when he takes you to the lake with him.

Let me give an allegory that struck me so true I stopped reading a good book just to write it down in my head!

Let us say the pursuit of God (verily, the pursuit of happiness) is the pursuit of a cheeseburger.

So in pursuit of a cheeseburger, we go to the McDonald's franchise (Christianity) - where they most certainly provide a cheeseburger (surrendering unto the Son to be born again).

The McDonald's cheeseburger meets all the qualifications of a cheeseburger: a meat patty between two buns topped with cheese (God is ALL and is defined as Life, Light, Love, Truth, and Happiness). It would be insane to proclaim that the McDonald's cheeseburger is no cheeseburger at all - and it would stand to reason that customers of McDonald's would become agitated at petty attempts to discredit the McDonald's franchise by way saying no cheeseburger exists at McDonald's...

And yet, it would be equally insane of McDonald's customers to claim that McDonald's is the ONLY place one can find a cheeseburger.

*There is the Burger King franchise (Islam) - they provide a tasty cheeseburger (the prophet Muhammad's total surrender to Allah) just like McDonald's!
*There is the Wendy's franchise (Buddhism) - they provide a tasty cheeseburger (Buddha's path to Nirvana) just like McDonald's!
*There is the Carl's Jr. franchise (Native American Spirituality) - they provide a tasty cheeseburger (Oneness with Great Spirit) just like McDonald's!

In fact, it is easy to see that ALL of those franchises provide a cheeseburger!

It is equally easy to see that one can go to McDonald's all of one's life and NEVER order a cheeseburger.

It is true that there is only ONE cheeseburger (a cheeseburger is a cheeseburger as long as it meets the requirements), but it is just as true that none of these franchises can claim that they have the ONLY cheeseburger (as long as a cheeseburger meets the requirements, it is a cheeseburger). All I need to prove the omnipresence of cheeseburgers is to walk down the street to another franchise to see that a cheeseburger is being sold here as well as the other one up the street.

If I walked into Burger King and shouted at the faithful Burger King customers that the cheeseburgers here are fake and that the REAL cheeseburger is down at McDonald's - it is easy to see how the customers could get a little war-like toward McDonald's.

Likewise, it would be equally easy to see that if I walked into Carl's Jr. and proclaimed that since I am a customer of McDonald's (which according to my narrow mind provides the ONLY cheeseburger in existence) that this franchise no longer exists and has now become a McDonald's, how some of the Carl's Jr. customers could become a little confused, depressed, and even spiteful.

To say that I can only know a cheeseburger through McDonald's is simply delusional.

And if one still wants to believe that the McDonald's cheeseburger is the ONLY cheeseburger in existence, that is the prerogative of the individual... Just don't be surprised if this individual's mind creates massive wars from now until when the individual changes his/her mind...

(^_^)

Wow... this allegory is SO SPOT ON that I'm gonna have to make a new thread about it... perhaps several! Herein lies the very solution to war! If we can all take a step back and maybe see that our cheeseburger is not the ONLY cheeseburger in existence then maybe... just maybe...

We all CAN get along!




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