New US Military Technology - the Exoskeleton

Well I don't know about all that. Improving on something still requires innovation, sometimes more than the original creator put into it.

I have to say though, if I'm going to observe an argument, "My mech suit can beat up your mech suit" is definitely in my top tier of choices to watch.

Originally posted by mattifikation
Well I don't know about all that. Improving on something still requires innovation, sometimes more than the original creator put into it.

I have to say though, if I'm going to observe an argument, "My mech suit can beat up your mech suit" is definitely in my top tier of choices to watch.

Touche!

The difference between the US and japan is philosophical. The US goes with practicality while japan makes toys... Example. the video below is of a robotic mule that will serve the US military. They actually, and eventually, want SF soldiers riding on these things into battle..thus doing the work for them. Japan on the other hand builds stuff that you play with, you interact with. All devised by a predetermined outcome. In america, they make robots to do the work for them NOW. In japan, its the other way around.

youtube.com...

show me a japanese made robot that can traverse such terrain with such ease..

Practicality is the outcome here. That is what drives innovation.

I wish I had one of the ecoskelton to pull my car outter ice. Who need a tow man. I personally would change careers and have my our towing business.

If you had an exoskeleton, you wouldn't need a car. :-)

Originally posted by West Coast

Also, america leads in technological innovation. NOT japan.
there are studys out there that go as far as to say the US is 15-30% more innovative than japan...just saying..

I dont mind that you have this anti american view. But get the facts straight..

Mate if you think America is more technologically advanced than Japan you need to be slapped with a giant Tuna.

When it comes to electronics of any kind the Japs know it best.

And no Im not a jap im an aussie.

I think your patriotism might be shrouding your view.

reply to post by Tonka


Whatever the situation may be in regards to the civilian sector the USs military industrial complex is unmatched in terms of technology. We lead the rest of the world in research, development, production and capability, including Japan. And that's just from what the US military makes public, I wont mention the more fantastic claims that may be possible.

West Coast:
Talking about talking out of ones own ass..

This sounds like rubbish from someone who cannot stand the fact that america did somthing that owns japans weak imitation... the jap version is a toy compared to this exo skeleton. and as far as the US exo skeletons (notice the "s" at the end). Look up Bleex 1 and bleex 2, those are US exo skeleton prototypes that could already be used, that are easily better than the 'commercially available'' japanese version.

I agree with what Tonka said. You are completely blinded by your patriotism and I'm certainly not anti-American, as I was simply stating facts which you obviously don't agree with. Each to there own.

West coast wrote:
show me a japanese made robot that can traverse such terrain with such ease

Your comments in regards to Japanese robots couldn't be further from the truth. They are the world leaders in robotics. I suggest you check out Asimo, the worlds most advanced human robot. It's certainly no toy.

asimo.honda.com...

Originally posted by kindred

I agree with what Tonka said. You are completely blinded by your patriotism and I'm certainly not anti-American, as I was simply stating facts which you obviously don't agree with. Each to there own.

you werent simply stateing facts. Just a biased opinion that you did not bother to back. As did tonka..

Your comments in regards to Japanese robots couldn't be further from the truth. They are the world leaders in robotics. I suggest you check out Asimo, the worlds most advanced human robot. It's certainly no toy.

asimo.honda.com...

I said what I said fully aware of Aisimo. And the tech that goes into that (while cool) is not that "extravagant". The mule bot I posted was traversing terrain that aisimo, or any other japanese robot for the matter, could not traverse. You missed my initial point by a mile. It was to show the philisophical differences between the US and japan in regards to robotics. Despite what you think, japan does make toys..the US meanwhile is incorporating robots into its military infrastructure RIGHT NOW to help the US military do their job RIGHT NOW more safely, and better!

Just a few examples..


A flying robot? that could blow the hell out of Aismo?


This robot actually does patrol duties pre programmed. Meaning that it doesnt need an operator.











...and many many more... google FCS (future combat systems) by 2015 more than half the US military will be robotic...

And just to add on westpoints post a bit here.. The US does lead all nations (japan included) in R&D spending. That doesnt take into account americas supremacy in the military R&D area either. The US is also #1 in the number of scientists and engineers engaged in research activities. And as for wild claims goes (im sure westpoint could add a few)....google Gary Mckinnon and his claims..

Oh, and howed aismo fair on those steps? Musta missed one right? Better becareful next time eh?





[edit on 15-12-2007 by West Coast]

[edit on 15-12-2007 by West Coast]

Originally posted by West Coast
you werent simply stateing facts. Just a biased opinion that you did not bother to back. As did tonka..

I didnt think I needed to point out the obvious.
Have a look at your computer monitor, your tv, your microwave, your mobile phone, your alarm clock.
Worlds largest car manafacturer? Toyota
Worlds most advanced and largest engine manafacturer? Honda
The list is damn near endless.

I said what I said fully aware of Aisimo. And the tech that goes into that (while cool) is not that "extravagant". The mule bot I posted was traversing terrain that aisimo, or any other japanese robot for the matter, could not traverse.

Your trying to compare a bipedal robot with that four legged dog?
Read up on the subject of bipedal robots and how much work has gone into developing them and the level of sophistication needed to balance such a machine. I could make a four legged dog that could walk out of mechano and some old servos. And also the fact about japan not having made a robot that could traverse the same conditions as the mule??
Come on!!! At least get off your ass and do a search before stating things you have no knowledge on. The japs were doin quad legs 20 years ago. Try searching All Terrain Japanese Robots.
I tell you what Ill make it easy for you.All Terrain Robot

CAN THE MULE SWIM???

You missed my initial point by a mile. It was to show the philisophical differences between the US and japan in regards to robotics. Despite what you think, japan does make toys..the US meanwhile is incorporating robots into its military infrastructure RIGHT NOW to help the US military do their job RIGHT NOW more safely, and better!

Ummm no the U.S. is blowing billions of your tax payer dollars "trying" to incorporate robots into the armed forces. The only robots of any credibility at all that are in service are RPV's an unmanned drones, not that these could even be considered revolutionary more evolutionary, the Israelis were using rpv's and drones extensively in the Beeka valley against the Syrians in the late 70's. The only ground pounding "robot" with an actual gun technically in service is the Talon which you showed pictures of, heres how they rate so far.

There are problems with threat recognition and response; some models will not shoot cows with guerillas crouched behind them, but will fire at anything stenciled with an AK-47 silhouette.

Gee cant wait to have one of them watchin my back.

You are right that Japan has a different philosophical response to robots,
you see the Japs no what the current technology can and cant do, yes they can make an exoskeleton that can help disabled people, even perhaps utilize it in heavy industry, try to use it militarily? Dirt, mud, damage, moisture, and the big drawback, POWER. There aint no power points in the bush/desert. The mule proves my point exactly listen to the little two stroke motor screamin its guts out, in combat you might as well put a big neon sign up that says shoot in this direction. The exoskeleton? How long do you think one of them things can run for on a full charge in a military situation? 8 maybe 12 hours with the best batteries money and technology can provide. What then? We could always put a mule motor in it I spose.
Also regarding wich unit is the more advanced exoskeleton watch the videos again and use some common sense. The Jap unit is cruisin around a suburban street at the start then showing its lifting abilitys quite adeptly I must say, it even looks the part. Now watch the American version, it doesnt move outside a designated area the blokes wearing a motorcycle helmet and its hooked up to tethers and cables, sort of says something doesnt it?

Once again I think your patriotism is blinding your view.






[edit on 15-12-2007 by Tonka]

Originally posted by Tonka
I didnt think I needed to point out the obvious.
Have a look at your computer monitor, your tv, your microwave, your mobile phone, your alarm clock.
Worlds largest car manafacturer? Toyota
Worlds most advanced and largest engine manafacturer? Honda
The list is damn near endless.

FIrst of all, what piss poor examples.

Most, damn near everything, is actually manufactured in china, not japan.

My computer is a DELL. TV is a phillips 46inch LCD. Microwave is kitchenmaid. Mobile Phone is motorolla razor. My alarm clock is some crappy one that was made in china...satisfied?

Oh, and by the way. The computer was invented by who? The internet that you use....which uses american search engines? (Can you even name one prominant japanese search engine?) Who invented the mircowave? HDTV first, LCD etc? Pssst. it wasnt the japs

PS, Sony is only one brand, america has many "Famous name" brands.

Your trying to compare a bipedal robot with that four legged dog?

Four legged mule...Again, different philosphys. Are you telling me that the only nation to have ever stepped foot on the moon, a nation that currently fields the most formidable military due to their technological superiority over EVERYONE else in the world, cannot somehow build a bi-pedal robot? This exo skeleton suit by sarco, is essentially a bi pedal robot. I give credit to japan for fielding these 'neat toys'.

Read up on the subject of bipedal robots and how much work has gone into developing them and the level of sophistication needed to balance such a machine.

The Mule is arguably the world's most ambitious legged robot. That is not a small feat.

There is a fine art to it. However, kick one of those japanese robotos and see if it can catch itself.

And also the fact about japan not having made a robot that could traverse the same conditions as the mule??
Come on!!! At least get off your ass and do a search before stating things you have no knowledge on. The japs were doin quad legs 20 years ago. Try searching All Terrain Japanese Robots.
I tell you what Ill make it easy for you.All Terrain Robot

There is nothing "japanese" about the video you linked me to.

CAN THE MULE SWIM???

Im sure it could if it was retrofitted to.

How bout this though?



and it can kick ass.

Ummm no the U.S. is blowing billions of your tax payer dollars "trying" to incorporate robots into the armed forces. The only robots of any credibility at all that are in service are RPV's an unmanned drones, not that these could even be considered revolutionary more evolutionary, the Israelis were using rpv's and drones extensively in the Beeka valley against the Syrians in the late 70's. The only ground pounding "robot" with an actual gun technically in service is the Talon which you showed pictures of, heres how they rate so far.

Look up Future combat systems...It is a $200 billion dollar plus transformation of the US army (it is currently taking place). And by 2015, more than half the US military will be robotic.

There are problems with threat recognition and response; some models will not shoot cows with guerillas crouched behind them, but will fire at anything stenciled with an AK-47 silhouette.

Gee cant wait to have one of them watchin my back.

You are aware that they do have a human operator? Some of them can be preprogrammed to do "missions". Nothing of any great significance.

And by "some models", they mean what exactly? Quit cherry picking.

You are right that Japan has a different philosophical response to robots,
you see the Japs no what the current technology can and cant do, yes they can make an exoskeleton that can help disabled people, even perhaps utilize it in heavy industry, try to use it militarily? Dirt, mud, damage, moisture, and the big drawback, POWER. There aint no power points in the bush/desert. The mule proves my point exactly listen to the little two stroke motor screamin its guts out, in combat you might as well put a big neon sign up that says shoot in this direction. The exoskeleton? What then? We could always put a mule motor in it I spose.
Also regarding wich unit is the more advanced exoskeleton watch the videos again and use some common sense. The Jap unit is cruisin around a suburban street at the start then showing its lifting abilitys quite adeptly I must say, it even looks the part. Now watch the American version, it doesnt move outside a designated area the blokes wearing a motorcycle helmet and its hooked up to tethers and cables, sort of says something doesnt it?

Once again I think your patriotism is blinding your view.

In regards to the exo skeleton, it is all a lead up to this.


This is the 2020 FFW concept. However, 2020 (13 years away) seems a bit long with the rapid advancements that are occuring in the nanotech field (US also leads in this area, as it does in Bio tech). A nanotechnologist from texas (in the US BTW) has made alcohol and hydrogen powered artificial muscles that are 100x stronger than natural muscles, are able to do 100x greater work per cycle and can produce, at reduced strengths, larger contractions than natural muscles.

How long do you think one of them things can run for on a full charge in a military situation? 8 maybe 12 hours with the best batteries money and technology can provide.

Batteries are already obsolete, or will be by time these things are employed by the US military.

However, these artificial muscles break from the shackles of batteries, as they use fuel instead.

Now this man has already been awarded a contract by DARPA to build a working exo skeleton suit for the US military...no contest.


[edit on 16-12-2007 by West Coast]

Man if i had the exoskeleton, I wouldn't be afraid of a guy with a knife. All i need to do a strap a saw on the thing a saw someones head off. Knife won't do any good once this thing improves and is fully strap with armor. Plus, u can prob turn the machine into a rapid fire weapon itself all in one with a rocket launcher strap on the shoulders and a large case of ammo strap to the machine itself. Instead of carring a gun u can be the gun itself. There is so much u can do with this technology it's pretty scary.

Maybe in the future they can put a jet pack on it and use it to fly. This is only the begining.

C'mon, we all know people from around the world go to the US to study and learn, then go back to their country and apply what they learn. As far as technology America is at the top. They just don't spend money useless machines like the Arismo, they spend it on things that kill.

ANd of course lots of things are made in China. People from the US open companies in China or India because of less tax and cheap labor and goods. They develop the products and ship it back to the US. Just because it says made in China does not mean that the owner of the company is Chinese. Imagine how much more it would cost to built things in the US then China.

Originally posted by West Coast

a nation that currently fields the most formidable military due to their technological superiority over EVERYONE else in the world, cannot somehow build a bi-pedal robot?

Thats the same nation that for the second time in the past 50 years is about to be humbled by a group of guerillas and insurgents with nothing more than AK's and a little enginuity??
Your living in a dream world champ you may have the numbers and some great military equipment but when its not used in the correct manner you might as well be throwing stones.
Secondly look at the big picture, your economy is going down the toilet due to blatant mismanagement and a continuingly mismanaged and unwinnable war. The fact is how much of America is truly owned by America these days? What annoys me is the fact your gonna pull down a lot of other western econimies with you. Wouldnt surprise me if your an ardent supporter of metal storm to.
Oh and while where on the subject you can be as high and mighty about how technoligically superior and "unbeatable" you are in a war, I can name several countries that can wipe you out with the press of a button so grow up.

You really need to take this on board westcoast, THE NEXT WAR WILL BE THE LAST WAR CAUSE NOBODY WILL WIN AND NOBODY WILL BE LEFT.
Get the point?

Kickin the s**t out of third world countries with your technologically superior forces is like a boxer takin on a paraplegic in a wheelchair.
Funny thing is you cant even do that right.

Look up Future combat systems...It is a $200 billion dollar plus transformation of the US army (it is currently taking place). And by 2015, more than half the US military will be robotic.

In 7 years time eh?? God I wish I could put a bet on that I really do.
Have a good look at the history of your militarys defense procurement and spending history. If started today the troops in the field might get a new selection of meal choices in there combat rations by 2015!
You might as well take that 200 Billion and p**s it against the wall because thats what the contractors are going to do with it.

Dont get me wrong westcoast I do believe automated sentries, exoskeletons and a whole host of other toys will be viable weapons systems in the future but the technological level needed to achieve it? There isnt a country in the world thats at that level yet and they wont be for another 30-50 years. Plain and simple.

I mean seriously are you really that gullible? 7 years? Over half the military? You need to stop reading the defence contractors glossy brochures and look a little deeper.



[edit on 16-12-2007 by Tonka]

[edit on 16-12-2007 by Tonka]

West Coast
A flying robot? that could blow the hell out of Aismo?

West coast you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the US military's philosophy of death, destruction and blowing things up. What we need is technologies that benefit this planet and humanity, not technologies that sole purpose is to maim, kill and destroy. Some people seriously need to re-examine their morals and get their priorities right or the human race will soon go extinct.

As for asimo tripping up - big deal. You mean to tell me that US tech is infallible.

www.youtube.com...
Is it a bird, is it a plane? no it's a $45 million falling brick.

Amfirst
C'mon, we all know people from around the world go to the US to study and learn, then go back to their country and apply what they learn. As far as technology America is at the top. They just don't spend money useless machines like the Arismo, they spend it on things that kill.

That's probably why they leave and go back home.



[edit on 16-12-2007 by kindred]

I don't know why, but something tells me this new soilder will actually be used for the U.S. streets, and not really for war.

Originally posted by Tonka
Thats the same nation that for the second time in the past 50 years is about to be humbled by a group of guerillas and insurgents with nothing more than AK's and a little enginuity??

By your biased, skewed vision...Yes. However, ask yourself this...is the US losing battles militarily, or politically?

Your living in a dream world champ you may have the numbers and some great military equipment but when its not used in the correct manner you might as well be throwing stones.

THe US is doing a grand job militarily considering that they are in a urban environment and are being asked alot out of to do the type of job title that has been brought upon them..Show me a nation that could carry the burden the US carries currently...

Secondly look at the big picture, your economy is going down the toilet due to blatant mismanagement and a continuingly mismanaged and unwinnable war.

ahh yes, the "economy is going down swindle". I shall believe it when I see it. Until then, STFU.

The fact is how much of America is truly owned by America these days?

No, your actually trolling. The fact WAS how japan "owned" the US on the technological front. You were unable to back it up in your arguments, and now your taking attention away off of the problem completely by making up an entirely new one that was not part of the original argument to begin with. Im not biting.

What annoys me is the fact your gonna pull down a lot of other western econimies with you. Wouldnt surprise me if your an ardent supporter of metal storm to.

which is why the US will not collapse, nations would go to war to prevent such "certain" catastrophe.

Oh and while where on the subject you can be as high and mighty about how technoligically superior and "unbeatable" you are in a war, I can name several countries that can wipe you out with the press of a button so grow up.

while simultaneously kissing their own ass goodbye, Mr. tonka.

Alot of things we dont know about in regards to US black programs..The ultimate threat to US national security is nuclear weapons...

You really need to take this on board westcoast, THE NEXT WAR WILL BE THE LAST WAR CAUSE NOBODY WILL WIN AND NOBODY WILL BE LEFT.
Get the point?p

Perhaps in the land of unicorns and puffy white clouds....

Kickin the s**t out of third world countries with your technologically superior forces is like a boxer takin on a paraplegic in a wheelchair.
Funny thing is you cant even do that right.

How so? Iraqs military was trash after a week of fighting... The US has successfully brought Democracy to Iraq, just like it brought it to Germany and Eastern Europe. Europe is too weak to do the same (observe the EU's impotence in handling Bosnia/Kosovo until the US intervened), and hence its jealousy.

Maybe you can tell me why the French and German militaries are doing so poorly in Afghanistan, whereas US has to repeatedly rescue them from even the most modest of challenges?

In 7 years time eh?? God I wish I could put a bet on that I really do.
Have a good look at the history of your militarys defense procurement and spending history. If started today the troops in the field might get a new selection of meal choices in there combat rations by 2015!
You might as well take that 200 Billion and p**s it against the wall because thats what the contractors are going to do with it.

the fact is...your wrong.. The transformation is actually taking place RIGHT NOW. And as one US general put it, "Its open ended". meaning there is no end to constantly upgrading US forces. They will constantly be building upon a already prolific force. FCS will be better designed to fight terrorism as well. This will simultaneously put the US that much further ahead of the closest competitor.

Dont get me wrong westcoast I do believe automated sentries, exoskeletons and a whole host of other toys will be viable weapons systems in the future but the technological level needed to achieve it? There isnt a country in the world thats at that level yet and they wont be for another 30-50 years. Plain and simple.

technological growth is exponential and accelerating CONSTANTLY. Within the next 30-50 years the technological singularity is expected to occur.. Your way off base..
Within 10-15 years time, these exo skeletons will be more than a practical reality.....

I mean seriously are you really that gullible? 7 years? Over half the military? You need to stop reading the defence contractors glossy brochures and look a little deeper.

No, gullible would me looking through your rosey colored glasses, believing some kid who probably isnt even tall enough to look me in the eyes...

Somehow those "glossy brochures" are less reliable than you are? Do you happen to have some unknown knowledge in defence procurement that nobody else knows about? Give me a breakQ

[edit on 16-12-2007 by West Coast]

[edit on 16-12-2007 by West Coast]

[edit on 16-12-2007 by West Coast]

Originally posted by kindred

West Coast
A flying robot? that could blow the hell out of Aismo?

West coast you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the US military's philosophy of death, destruction and blowing things up. What we need is technologies that benefit this planet and humanity, not technologies that sole purpose is to maim, kill and destroy. Some people seriously need to re-examine their morals and get their priorities right or the human race will soon go extinct.

As for asimo tripping up - big deal. You mean to tell me that US tech is infallible.

www.youtube.com...
Is it a bird, is it a plane? no it's a $45 million falling brick.

Ahh yes, americas first generation stealth fighter...which is now being replaced... Could you please point me to japans stealth fighters? Oh, thats right, they dont have any.. Infact, the US was the one who invented stealth, and is the only nation able to employ stealth craft in large quantity's. I can play this tic for tac all night.....

As for the rest of your post. Many of the civilian sectors have benefited greatly from US military R and D. The internet comes to mind first...


PS posting something as irrelevant as a stealth fighter crashing....is a pretty far reach. There are several videos of japans beloved asimo falling. Is the tech all the special, like you and mr. tonka seem to think it is?


[edit on 16-12-2007 by West Coast]

Personally I think the Segway is more impressive than Asimo, even though it's not a robot. I don't know which one is more difficult from a technological standpoint, but the Segway seems more creative in my opinion.

Originally posted by West Coast

You really need to take this on board westcoast, THE NEXT WAR WILL BE THE LAST WAR CAUSE NOBODY WILL WIN AND NOBODY WILL BE LEFT.
Get the point?

Perhaps in the land of unicorns and puffy white clouds....

Albert Einstein once stated and I quote,

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."


The only thoery that can be related to unicorns and puffy white clouds is your so called Missile Defense System.

West Coast
Infact, the US was the one who invented stealth, and is the only nation able to employ stealth craft in large quantity's. I can play this tic for tac all night

West coast your more or less implying that I'm somehow jealous of American military hardware. Personally I couldn't careless. I thnk the money could be better spent on something more practical & useful that actually benefits humanity. I personally don't understand why you make such a big deal about stealth anyway. It will soon be obsolete, if it isn't already.

Are your sure you even invented stealth. Ben Rich, once head of Lockheed Martin (Skunkworks) seems to think otherwise. He states that the technology was handed to you.

Ben Rich, former head engineer to Kelly Johnson at Lockheed's 'Skunk Works' :"We have things in the Nevada desert that you and the best minds in the world won't even be able to conceive that we have for 30 or 40 years, and won't be made public for another 50.

Back engineered Alien Technology.
www.earthfiles.com...

British back engineered Alien technology
journals.aol.co.uk...

H.A.L.O British stealth fighter, but generations more advanced.
findarticles.com...


[edit on 17-12-2007 by kindred]