Originally posted by pantha
IF the whole John Titor thing were true wouldn't it have been incredably hard for this Alex to have managed to find himself on the same timeline as he did, as there are an infinate amount of timelines.I could be wrong cause the whole things pretty confusing.

.

He said the John Titor who visited this timeline was different to the one on his timeline as JOhn Titor had a 2% difference while he had a 0.98% difference.

Anyway we need to get him here I have some questions. Plus What if it WERE true we'll find out by the end of the year because Alex said things start heating up at the election time and he will still be here. I know I'm not American but vote John Kerry Americans I think hes great

Auditing the time means to audit your audit which means you dont audit what you really audit then resulting in no audit at all. So leave alone those kids claiming to be from any other time

Originally posted by worldwatcher
If you really came from the future, why would limit yourself to the internet?

Worldwatcher...I was thinking along the same line. Why would you come back to 2003 just to talk on an already outdated technology?! (IRC).

Originally posted by darklanser
Worldwatcher...I was thinking along the same line. Why would you come back to 2003 just to talk on an already outdated technology?! (IRC).

This as well, he could write up worms to infect all boxes connected to the internet and make a message box with his story pop-up. Would be something more like "Uh I am a kid now believe me"

LOL......Kerry is just a "democratic" version of Bush...they
are after all skull and bones brothers.

Edwards or Clark for me!

Originally posted by worldwatcher
LOL......Kerry is just a "democratic" version of Bush...they
are after all skull and bones brothers.

Edwards or Clark for me!

*One man
Two bodies
Clones with exchangible personality software

One goal
Two political parties
Time is no longer a factor for the control of the US

A brand new series coming soon to Scifi.*

God, their original series are getting worse and worse!

John Titor, now his travelin buddy Alex...

so, where's the females? There are supposto be 2 gals in this entourage....

My thoughts are that this John Titor, worldline/time traveler production is based rather loosely on two science fiction works-->

Number of the Beast by Robert A Heinlein
Mark of the Beast by C E Albertson
~~~+++~~~

EXCERPTs from Amazon books new/used...Google UP

(Mark...) Accidently thrown into a future parallel reality, John Edwards finds traitors in the top levels of a government at war with a large Eastern nation--etc etc etc

(Number...) IT'S ONE THING TO GO TO OUTER SPACE...
BUT OTHER UNIVERSES???

...who want their awesome quantum breakthrough...

...In the Gay Deciever, their trusty space-time interstellar coupe', Zeb and Deety, Jake and Hilda attempt to search and avoid...
~~~~++++~~~~

**fuzzy memory still afflicts me, but, the 4some in the Heinlein book(Number)...'jump' universes/worldlines/timelines via the quantum device in their dated-coupe-de-spaceship, 'popping' into universes v-e-r-y close to the one they were born to.

**In the Albertson story(Mark), character John (edwards) goes forward to traitors,war,evil govt...
-->now if you take character John (titor = traitor sans 'ra')
because he went backward in time..to fortell of a civilwar,evil govt--> it seems an Edwards must become a prominent figure !

(occuring because of the john-edwards-traitor sequence becoming the john-t__itor-edwards reversal)

or something like that...

just expect the saga to continue, i'm looking forward to
Alexs' dialogs and for the Deety & Hilda personnages to pop-in into this worldline/timeline.................. enjoy the journey....

A roleplaying game (GURPS) and the book Alas, Babylon are also thought to be probable references used in the entire matter.

Originally posted by weeman
So ethier lilblam is fake or alex is fake

Or lilblam is alex!?! OR I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
LOL! No, I don't believe the fable as anything more than a story. That said however, I can appreciate the genius it took to put the whole thing together (story, photos, etc...) and hold to that for months never wavering in the story or exposing yourself. Then to disappear and have people still debating years later? Having a legion of followers? Have certain parts of the story for the most part intact (meaning the story have not been 100% debunked by hundreds or thousands of people).

So has religion.. but we both know that's a big filthy lie, don't we? Oh hmm sorry that's just me The point is, ANYONE and ANYTHING can have a whole #load of followers, because people will follow anything! That alone doesn't say anything about authenticity of it.

Anyone would have to admit. It took some smarts to do that.

As for your issue that Christianity wouldn't survive the scientific proof of multiple worldlines. How did it manage to survive the science of evolution? Hmmmm?

Well we didn't evolve from monkeys. It's not a science, it's a theory. We know we're not related to neanderthals. The thing is, on his world "worldlines" aren't theoretical, they are FACT. They move through them, so for him there is no question. The idea that humans evolved from monkeys is by no means a fact. And you are right, Christianity did survive many things... but only in the general population. I mean, how does it survive in the single PERSON who knows for fact that there are infinite worldlines, and travels through them? So he then goes home and completely contradicts his entire reality with the idea of Christianity? All in one man? That seems very unlikely. Knowledge and ignorance don't mix. If you don't know, you fill your empty mind with belief and religious concepts. If you know, you have no such need.

"It is contradicting the simple idea of the Bible etc... and that means God could never give commandments to anyone since every possible action HAS been done by YOU on another worldline. God can't judge you anymore, since you DID EVERYTHING in every possible situation."
You cannot believe in the possibility of multiple worldlines or "string" theory, but you will fully believe a book written by who-knows based fully on faith?

Are you talking to me here? I never said belief anything.. I'm just refering to the claims of Titor and Alex, and his world.

Well, Christianity seems to survive despite that pesky science stuff. All it takes is faith.

Faith just means you allow for the possibility of all things, until you know otherwise or stumble upon a paradox. But if you already know otherwise, continuing faith in a previously-believed illusion just means ignorance. In HIS world, they already know otherwise.

For millennia, people have debated what is the ratio of the perimeter to the diameter of a circle. On the one hand, the Bible clearly states that the first temple contained a circular structure with a perimeter of 30 cubits and a diameter of 10 cubits, giving an exact ratio of 3. On the other hand mathematicians blindly ignore this truth and claim that the result is closer to 3.14.
So God and science seem at odds on this...but both survive.

Well people are divided in what to believe. But no one believes BOTH. If you know it to be 3.14, you cannot at the same TIME know it to be 3. It's either 3 or 3.14. So some people choose one, some choose another. But no ONE PERSON can choose both. That is my problem with Titor and Alex. They decided they CAN choose both, 2 things that completely contradict one another in ONE PERSON's MIND... (not talking about overall population)

How about the fact that Greek fatalism, embodied in Aristotle's argument of De interpretatione 9, posed a special threat to Christian theology. Committed to the biblical doctrine of divine foreknowledge as well as to human freedom, Christian thinkers had to explain how it is either that God knows future contingents without future contingent propositions' being antecedently true or false or that God's knowing the truth value of such propositions does not after all entail fatalism. The problem of theological fatalism seemed especially acute since God's foreknowledge of some future event is itself a fact of past history and therefore temporally necessary; that is to say, it no longer has any potential to be otherwise. Therefore, what God foreknew must necessarily come to pass, since it is impossible that God's knowledge be mistaken.
More science versus the bible.

And if it doesn't, he is no longer God. Therefore the entire religion worships someone who is NOT God, but an imposter. Therefore, it is based on a lie and a false assumption.

How about the fact that people think God is perfect? Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. No one can please everyone, neither can God. What's good for one person is bad for another. God cannot be only what you want him to be, that'd means he doesn't exist in objective reality, but only in your mind. Once again that would base Christianity on a lie and a false assumption that there is some God out there. Perfection is subjective and relative. No 2 people can agree fully on what a perfect God would have to be or do... so how can he exist and be perfect for both of them? Paradox...

Sorry God, you struck out a long time ago

OK Ill do what you want. IM going to get on that site and see how many people im able to fool. LOL!
For real, look for me.

Originally posted by Viendin
You're world is a place of Black and White. You assume that if someone is christian, then they believe wholeheartedly that the universe took 7 days to create.

Define Christian. Where is that "line" that say you are no longer Christian if you step over that line? The thing is, anyone can call themselves a Christian if they believe as much as 1 word from the Bible according to your understanding. Fine, let it be that. You assume that my world is black and white. You're basing that assumption on the fact that I said you cannot be a Christian and believe in multiple worldlines at the same time? Well according to your definition of "Christian", you certainly can! But that's why I asked, please define Christian. If you only believe selectively what your God orders you to believe in the Bible, are you still a Christian? And if so, under what authority do you decide when to listen to your "God" or when not to? Also under what authority could you decide which parts of the Bible are corrupted and which parts are true? How do YOU know what your God wanted you to follow? And if you find inconsistancies in the Bible, why do you allow yourself to believe that it was indeed written by an inconsistent God? Or do you attribute those inconsistencies to MEN, in which case we go back to, how do you know which parts are written by whom?

I see myself as a christian. I'm certainly not an atheist, I'm not a Buddhist, though I do partake in their values, I'm not Islamic, or Jewish, or Hindu, or Shinto, I'm Christian. I believe that 1 being of extreme power, perhaps that amount would be absolute, who created existence itself at some point in the past.

So you ignore logic, and go with your assumption that time exists because you see it? Even if it does exist, there could never be creation. God would have to wait around for eternity to create something, which means he never would (Can't wait eternity and then do something, eternity never ends). Unless God also came out of something, then he is no longer God. Either way, if time exists, it is eternal, and God could never create anything. If time does not exist, there IS no creation and everything simply is. If you don't understand, I can explain further. But you believe what you want, ignorance is bliss, after all.

He didn't speak to any of us, and he doesn't intervene. Jesus was an interesting man who had some paranormal powers, but he wasn't actually God's son. God set up laws for the universe to follow, with equations that produced some astounding beauty (Phi, anyone?) and then he let it play out like a movie.

You keep telling yourself that, and apparently you have and so have others. Is it sinking in deep enough to filter all input from anything else, and eliminate everything that does not conform to that belief? It appears as if it does...
But it's all good, remember.. Ignorance is Bliss! Repeat that a few times also.

I'm still a Christian.

Like I've said to you before, blam. After you're black and white, polarized world collapses a few more times, you'll start seeing the millions of shades of grey.

Again, you assume my world is black and white. Assumptions are based on ignorance, which is bliss. Repeat that over and over.

Also to blam: Just because the government is new, doesn't mean Area 51 and all other top-secret bases are instantly revealed to the world. As has been demonstrated by both John and Alex, the politics of Secrecy still prevail.

Great, this means that the entire war and revolution achieved NOTHING. They established exactly the same system of secrecy and coverups they were fighting to eliminate. Gosh darnit! Well better luck next time?

The time travel missions are classified, and the information about 'aliens' etc... would be too. Funny though, I thought of the Area 51 being open while walking home..

Why? Why oh why do you have to do this?

lilblam, we made some progress when we actually spoke.

The first thing you did was ask that we not argue.

I decided to go with it. I let you type your brains out.

Know what I've found out?

You're a textbook psychological case.

You throw all of yourself into everything you do 100%.

This is not some unbased assumption from my beliefs on time and space, (which by the way, I have no idea how you dragged into it, other than the single word
'existence').

This is something I gathered from what you told me.

How you went so far into the 'new age spirituality' that you learned off of a few internet sites, that you would have passed off anyone who spoke ill of it as an ignorant moron who hadn't learned the truth.
That worked until you realized that it contradicted itself. That it had mistakes. It simply didn't mesh with the religion it professed to be a part of.
You couldn't live with it, and turned to the massive organised classical religion, and since your spirituality had 100% failed you, you threw yourself 100% into Religion.

You asked forgiveness, you were a broken creature in the eyes of God. You were so 'into' Religion that you would pass off anyone doubting it as a moron, and you made up the logic to convince yourself.

Then it failed you too.

What next? Oh, right. Since Christianity, Judhaism, Islam, and many others had massive contradictory flaws, you turned your back on Religion.
You thought "God must not exist."
"Or," you thought, "someone must be impersonating a god. Tricking us."
Then you found that other crackwad site about the mystical 'Seven Densities', and you yet again threw yourself 100% behind something that suited your present mood.
Now you're sure, so sure in fact, that you would, and do pass anyone who does not believe your particular brand of knowledge to the very core as an infidel, and a conformist, and an ignorant, unquestioning moron.


You've used it to rule out that old spiritualism. You've used it to rule out that old Religion. Now its Aliens.
They'll be here soon, according to you.
They're evil.
They've tricked us with delusions of Religion, and you've been tricked. It is all their fault.

You don't even see the pattern.

Next, after this 'alien-fear' comes not to pass in time, or you find a contradiction somewhere, you'll realize you've had it all wrong.

"Repent!" You'll think. "Meditate!" You'll think.

"Hate." You'll think.

You'll go into a shelled existence, barring everything you can from yourself. You'll decide that if New age Jesus lovers aren't right, and Priests aren't right, and Conspiracy theorists aren't right, and your own mind wasn't right, then.... Nothing is right. Everything is wrong.

You'll become a hardcore skeptic. Thinking you're free.

You'll be 100% 'into' skepticism. Demand full proofs on anything and everything you see, you'll realize that ANYONE who believes ANYTHING without seeing the full proof is a moron. An idiot.

Then, you'll come to a choice. While I don't personally believe that skepticism is skippable where you rest now, afterwards you could do yourself some right. As I see it you will have 3 options.

1) Recycle yourself and the pattern. Something new will come about, and you'll go 100% into it. Denouncing all those 'outside' as morons.

2) Walk the middle path. Do as I've been saying and don't put all your eggs in one basket. Take everything with a grain of salt, but believe in something.

3) Remain inside the skeptic view. Never believe anything for sure, and when answers really do occasionally come about, you'll have grown paranoid and afraid of the lies that surround truths, so you'll block yourself away from these answers, until they pass you on. Skepticism is fun though, you should enjoy it.

At any rate, you hijacked this thread. Don't post here, find me on AIM.

Originally posted by Viendin
You're world is a place of Black and White. You assume that if someone is christian, then they believe wholeheartedly that the universe took 7 days to create.
I see myself as a christian. I'm certainly not an atheist, I'm not a Buddhist, though I do partake in their values, I'm not Islamic, or Jewish, or Hindu, or Shinto, I'm Christian. I believe that 1 being of extreme power, perhaps that amount would be absolute, who created existence itself at some point in the past. He didn't speak to any of us, and he doesn't intervene. Jesus was an interesting man who had some paranormal powers, but he wasn't actually God's son. God set up laws for the universe to follow, with equations that produced some astounding beauty (Phi, anyone?) and then he let it play out like a movie.

I'm still a Christian.

uh... the whole point of being a CHRISTian is to believe in christ as the material son of god... so what you said is contradictory

I highly doubt ANY of this is true, John is probably a smart guy wasteing his time just stating a very possible future. Everyone that thinks the bush regime engineered 911, thinks he will make another terrorist attack before the election or durring it ensuring his victory.



[Edited on 16-2-2004 by Goat]