Got Milk? - Maybe not after you read this!

I love the taste of ice cold milk in a frozen beer glass with dinner. Especially with medium rare steak and potatoes. MMmm... How about with brownies or Oreo's?! Nothing anybody can say will get me to stop eating or drinking what I like. I even like scrapple, but I don't care to hear what its made of.

I agree nothing can quench my thirst like an ice cold glass of milk, i dont really care if it has pus in it or blood or any other natural by product in a cow, 10,000 yrs ago we used to kill wild animalls and then just crouch and suck on any juicy part of it we could find,

And when all is said and done what matters most is the fact that i like it, me, with my own free will, I LOVE MILK..

reply to post by azzllin



Did we or did our ancestors? That's a VERY broad generalisation you make. We used to swim around in the ocean all day too, if you go back far enough. 10 000 years is a long time.. What we did is no valid reason to keep doing it. I used to eat undercooked chicken and chop vegies right after chopping chicken. I don't do that now because I know it's bad for me!

Cow's milk is only good for baby cows..

Outside of the dairy industry, it's known that we don't need milk past 2 ish years old. At that, it's from your mother's breast. We're the only species that I know that still suckle the teet from another animal. Milk isn't necessary once we can eat. I do doubt that our ancestors chased down a cow and took udder to mouth.

Cereal is just as good with apple juice. I think the biggest conspiracy is that the dairy industry tells us that we need milk to get calcium when in a some cases dairy consumption (ie. a gallon a day!) can actually cause increased urinary excretion of calcium.

I haven't read the posts previous to this one, I apologise if I repeat anything from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that has been debunked. I really don't know why we still drink milk from cow's or goats or other animals.

Oh no, yes I do - advertising works.

This post was really started by a guy who has problems with milk.I dont see how milk can be bad.It has calcium and stuff.Unless you eat the carton,milk
is safe.

Actually, I hated milk until I discovered the organic section last month. I'll never go back to factory farm milk again. Organic milk actually tastes like something. Same goes for fruit and vegetables. The labs are so busy breeding for size and quantity that they've bred the taste right out of most of the stuff.

Organic is the way to go. I'm drinking more milk now that it actually tastes like the stuff I drank when I was a kid.

Does anyone else think it's weird that milk, cheese and pork get these huuuuge ad campaigns, but that you never see ads for things like, "Apples do a body good!" or "Got asparagus?"

My dad-in-law farms soybeans and wheat, and there's a huge factory dairy farm right next to him. Trust me, there's money in factory farms, period, and barely any in veggie farming, unless you're selling soy and corn for fuel. And even then, doesn't even amount to a fraction of what massive animal factory production lines reel in. And it's sick what they do. They have to keep cows pregnant way too often to keep them producing milk, and then once they're exhausted after years and just can't do it anymore, they sell their exhausted, sick bodies off to be used for meat. Most factory animals never see the light of day. Oh? You eat free-range you say? Yeah, the FDA only requires that animals get 15 minutes outside to be considered as such.

Also, you know, when's the last time you saw a goat drinking cow's milk, or another species drinking from another species? Maybe there are cases of surrogate mothers of other species taking in a baby, but even then, I'm pretty sure the baby stopped drinking its milk after it wasn't a baby anymore. Us drinking cow's milk is pure madness, I'm sorry.

Milk has been shown to WEAKEN bones, guys. Is it any wonder that the FDA funds campaigns so we drink craploads of it? It leads to health problems, which benefits the medical and pharmaceutical industry.

It's also kind of depressing that no one realizes that there's calcium in things like spinach. There is as much or more calcium in 4 ounces of firm tofu or 3/4 cup of collard greens as there is in one cup of cow's milk. And protein? Don't even get me started. Hello, beans, tofu, EVERYTHING, basically? [link]http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm[/link] And going vegan decreases your risk of so many cancers by so much that it's just plain ridiculous to continue putting yourself in danger just because bacon tastes awesome. By the way, did you know that pigs are as intelligent as 3-year-olds? Yeah, I wouldn't care either, if I had to survive by eating pigs. But you don't. Not only do you not, but it's actually detrimental to your health to continue to do so.

Being vegan is the best thing I ever did for my body. An even better diet is a raw vegan diet. If you eat living foods, it adds life to your body. Eat dead foods, like rotting carcasses, and what do you think that does?

The Vegabond said "Fruits, vegitables, meats are good for you- nobody disputes it." I urge him and anyone else that thinks no one disputes that meat is good for you to do their research. They'll be shocked. I became vegan after researching how to get rid of my mom's cancer after the doctors had all given up on her. Anyone that cares about themselves and their families should do the same. As a result of trying to save my mom, my husband and I both became vegan.

Ok i am doing something i rarely do but this thread just didn't grab me save for the fact that i LOVE milk. But now, let's say it is bad for us, besides the fact that i can't stand soy milk, what alternative is there if you eat cereal or just feel like a glass of MILK?

Yeah i know, perhaps it is 2 pages back but i doubt it. Is there a real replacement? It is used in cakes, cereal in the mornings, milkshakes etc.

I really couldn't think of a real alternative that is as enjoyable as am ICE cold glass of milk and a huge slab of chocolate cake or chocolate chip cookies OR brownies...

Originally posted by shearder
Yeah i know, perhaps it is 2 pages back but i doubt it. Is there a real replacement?

Does there have to be?
What I mean is the taste you think you like may be irrelevant after a change in diet.

Exactly what causes the craving, etc. There are various factors given the type of food, mental state, parasites, etc. (not saying milk or referring to shearder, Im making a blanket statement here that goes beyond that really.)

Point is this. I used to drink a gallon and a half a day in my late teens.
Loved crackers, milk and peanut butter.

But somewhere in there I stopped milk altogether...years ago.
You know something, there are so many tasty things out there...I dont miss it in the least.

What do you eat cereal with etc? Well I mix mine with my herb tea. Sure I know it sounds wack...but I add in honey, and quite frankly, for me its fine.

I do think there is an issue with milk in general. If you go milk, organic would be a good alternative, and even then goat milk, etc. would be perhaps better.

But to imagine the fact that your drinking what the calf drinks...dont know, not sure its for human consumption. People do have problems with it, but again to each their own.
We do have different body types and the fact is for some it may well be necessary.

My issues go into the crap that is put into natural elements...the stuff that cause a neurological addiction, and with some there are parasites that they need cleansing from (might sound gross, but its true) which indeed dictate their craving. (again Im not saying this is for milk drinkers.

Interesting topic indeed.

Peace

dAlen

Man, whatever. I love milk. I have at least 2 glasses a day and I really don't think this article is gonna stop me. If there is pus and blood in it then I certainly can't detect it. Can any of you?

And let's face it, when eating a rare steak, you're gonna get some cows blood with your meat. And it tastes delicious. Does anyone here have a problem with that?

I think I may go have a nice cold glass of steak and a big thick juicy milk right now actually.

.

(Cow = one of the best inventions ever.)

A question for all those who really gulp down WHOLE MILK: Would you describe yourselves as fat?

A curious mind wants to know.

Thank you.

First, if you like milk, good for you, not telling you not to drink it.




Point is, we don't need it, and it gives nothing beneficial that cannot be easily ingested from other sources. There are things like blood and pus, but I think any omnivore shouldn't have a problem with that, since they are eating flesh and there will always be some blood left in it plus anything that animal has eaten or any sickness will be infused with the products derived from that animal. On the positive side, a little bit of that is good for you because it makes your immune system stronger if it doesn't get overloaded.


Calcium and all minerals, vitamins, essential fatty acids, etc. can be had by eating legumes, fruits, and vegetables. Green leafy vegetables are a great source of calcium. The closer you can eat them to raw (such as a salad) the better. Protein is easily gained by legumes/soy products. Between the tofu and the veggie meats, I eat more protein than the average person, that I am certain, I also take in more calcium than the average person as well (working on being a vegan).


Dairy is a hard product to cut out because it is infused into so many products, same with eggs, though a bit easier. I would say cheese is the hardest thing to eliminate, since some frozen yogurt's taste is indistinguishable from ice cream.



I am quite healthy (the closest I have come to getting sick since being vegetarian has been pollen allergy), I am actually a bit overweight, so I get plenty of calories.


So basically, eat what you like, but I can attest to feeling and being healthier since I have become vegetarian (working on the vegan).


Enjoy your gallons of milk, I prefer not to get that ill feeling in my stomach

Soy milk isn't bad, but you need to evaluate it on its own merit. If you are expecting the exact consistency and flavor, then you make yourself not like it. Some veggies I do that with, until I adjusted to the consistency (such as eggplant) I couldn't eat it.


So, try soy milk without the expectations, as well as the other dairy replacements.

I will definitely try some of the cereal ideas here, tangerine juice, how brilliant! People eat fruit flavored cereal, buy cereal with dried fruit in it, but not too many think of using a fruit juice with it in the bowl.

Originally posted by dAlen


What do you eat cereal with etc? Well I mix mine with my herb tea. Sure I know it sounds wack...but I add in honey, and quite frankly, for me its fine.

EWWWWW lol.

What gave you that idea? I don't think I could ever do that. Does it actually taste nice? what herb tea do you use?

Isn't it hard to quit milk? I mean they have milk in a LOT of products, even ones you might not expect it to be in, just check the ingredients.

Plus I love my coffee and black tea with milk! mmmmmm

What about cheese? Pizzas, pastas, so many different recipies contain cheese.

Basically what I'm saying is, quitting milk is not the only thing you would have to quit.




[edit on 5-3-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Well i have to say i drink milk, and have done for the last couple of years, that is "long life" i.e. has had the UHT process. But that only started because it was easy to stock up and have milk available when you can't get to the store/shops. However, i am not above drinking milk that is not UHT processed and only see the long life as more convenient - AND it lasts longer

Originally posted by reject
A question for all those who really gulp down WHOLE MILK: Would you describe yourselves as fat?

A curious mind wants to know.

Before I became vegan, all I drank was whole milk. Anything less tasted like water to me. I've always been around 125 pounds at 5'7".

So, not to defend milk, because as I posted above, the whole situation seems sketchy to me, but I don't necessarily think dairy products themselves cause people to become overweight. I think yogurt, cottage cheese and the like can help regulate your weight. However, that stuff adds a lot more calories to your diet, and then if you eat like crazy, duh, you're going to get fat.

Also, you know how they say "everything in moderation"? Well, try going vegan for a week. Read labels. EVERYTHING has milk, milkfat, butter, chicken or beef broth or chicken fat in it. You think you're eating potato chips? Some of those even have milk in them!

I live with my in-laws and they always want to share food with us, but we can't say yes more than once every 4 months, because NOTHING they eat lacks dairy or meat. I'm not against people eating meat and drinking milk, but I think if they read labels and realized that nearly 100% of everything they took in had meat or dairy in it, they'd look at things differently.

Apart from that, I was just never into candy or sweet crap like soda. I always liked water, juice and iced tea. And vegetables were my favorite, although I did love love love burgers and the frozen chicken nugget things you get at the store. But I guess all in all, my weight was maintained from an infant because I always preferred healthy choices (thanks for instilling that in me, mom!). Because of this, going vegan wasn't hard for me.

But may I add, people, that if you're careful, you can still find all kinds of vegan crapola you can inhale. Oreos are vegan, most potato chips are vegan, lots of snacky things like Wheat Thins, crap like soda, and there's soy ice cream that, at worst, tastes like frozen yogurt. I'm pretty sure you can still be overweight, really unhealthy and die of something weird on a vegan diet. Whether you drink milk or not, it's about healthy choices.

Meh cows milk. Not a fan as im lactose intolerant.... But occasionally i do get a big M or a choc thickshake or something. It's not too bad though i can feel it annoying my gut a little. not muchaat all though.

But yeah i am on Soy Milk "So Good" and damn... it's soooo good.

Cant go back to drinking normal cows milk... *yuck*

....building off my last post about these 'wasting' away diseases, thought to add some info., especially since I've been seeing some pharma ad 'supplement' in the free-weekly-city newspapers 'about' (hardly, since they're just pushing their drugs, not telling you why/how the problem starts) Crohn's disease.

Also, since that post, I've been using less soy products, as those could damage kidneys in long-term, yet that's for another thread, or, use rice milk.... in the meantime, I'd rather keep my colon/bowels in avoiding cow's milk:

www.pccnaturalmarkets.com...

....MAP is a bacterium that infects cows, sheep, goats and other mammals. In meat and dairy animals, it’s well established (my emphasis, ed.) that MAP causes Johne’s disease, a diarrhea and wasting disease like Crohn’s. Roughly 20% of meat and dairy herds in the U.S. are estimated to be infected with MAP. Even animals raised to strict organic standards may have Johne’s disease. The USDA does not require slaughterhouses to inspect the gastrointestinal systems of meat animals, and Johne’s testing is not routine or mandatory.

It could be argued that small farmers using organic methods might be somewhat less likely to have animals with Johne’s disease, because they would be more intimately aware of each animal than a large agribusiness farm. However, most ruminants are not symptomatic before age two, so many would be slaughtered before symptoms develop.

www.mad-cow.org...

Drinking milk from cows infected with Johne's disease is how people are exposed to para-tuberculosis. Based on DNA fingerprinting techniques, there are two strains of MAP: one that affects cattle, and one that affects goats and sheep.

All human isolates so far have been of bovine origin, implicating milk. Milk is the "logical" focus of exposure because cows with Johne's disease secrete para*TB abundantly in their milk. Even sub-clinical cows--those that are infected but appear perfectly normal--shed para*TB bacteria into their milk.

Although these bacteria are found free-floating in milk, their transmission may be facilitated by their presence inside pus cells. This is a particular problem in the U.S., as we have the highest permitted upper limit of milk pus cell concentration in the world--almost twice the international standard of allowable pus cells. By US federal law, Grade A milk is allowed to have over a drop of pus per glass of milk. These pus cells may facilitate the transmission of para*TB.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by anhinga]

reply to post by anhinga


I have Crohn's disease. I used to drink a gallon of 2% milk every 2-3 days for about 10 years. I was one of those who was raised to believe milk did a body good. So i drank it all the time and actually loved the stuff. Fast forward to 02'. Diagnosed with Crohn's at age 20. I continued to drink milk and eat milk based products. I was on a pharmacutical cocktail who's side effects were almost as bad as my symptoms.

My Dr. told me it was an autoimmune disease. That my body thought there was an infection in my intestines and that in response was trying to fight a non existant infection thus creating inflammation and scar tissue from the lesions in my gut. At face value at the time it sounded right.

I then began doing my own reading, my own research, and came to the conclusion my body wasn't fighting a non-existent infection, it was fighting a parasite, the parasite you have also researched MAP. Now from my understanding MAP doesn't effect everyone, some people can eliminate it effectivly, a select few like myself are genetically pre disposed to not be able to fight this parasite. I stopped drinking milk and cut back on dairy products in general. My symptoms are not gone, the scar tissue is there, damage has been done, but I live med free and my symptoms have not gotten worse in 6 years. Coincidence?

Recent studies are starting to link crohn's to E.Coli.

"Our findings raise the possibility that a novel group of E. coli contains opportunistic pathogens that may be causally related to chronic intestinal inflammation in susceptible individuals," said Kenneth Simpson, professor of small animal medicine at the College of Veterinary Medicine and the paper's senior author. "They suggest that an integrated approach that considers an individual's mucosa-associated flora in addition to disease phenotype and genotype may improve outcome," he said.

Either way you want to look at it, milk does not do a body good, it is poison for the human body. You can get vitamans and calcium elsewhere.

Im at the point where I realize that everything we eat and drink is crap these days and still eat/drink it. Air pollution, water pollution, food pollution... whats the difference. We are a virus on this planet and I hope there is a meteor on its way to cure it.

Sorry if that sounds harsch, but seriously, what do we humans contribute to nature and the planet? Nothing, thats what.

We are the most selfish, calculating, back stabbing, greedy creatures on this planet, maybe in the entire universe. Not all of us, but enough of us to control where mankind if heading.


[edit on 15-3-2008 by Copernicus]

THOSE WHO ARE SKEPTICAL HAVE A FLAW

Care to guess the flaw? It's the pasteurization! Although it makes safety claims, it apparently does more subtle harm that accumulates inside the unsuspecting consumer, than the good people assume it does!

Read on RAW milk vs Pasteurized, then decide for yourselves.

RAW v Pasteurization

[ It is very difficult to get a man to understand something when his
salary depends on not understanding it.
Upton Sinclair ]

Safety of RAW MILK


POWERPOINT

Originally posted by insite

And your final point Dr. is what? This?:
Add the Bovine Growth Hormone into the mix and you have the recipe for a race of super-giants bent on destruction of the pathetic human race. Ah Okay...

HAHA!!

Just like I say about "global warming": If 7 months of summer, and roads free of snow is the "PRICE" I have to pay, then I will just keep driving every time I have to go two blocks!
Too bad global warming doesn't exist though. My country was locked down during all winter, from the heaviest snow in 30 years, but of course they blame global cooling on global warming and the weather on global cooling and warming, so there ya go...

I don't drink so much milk anymore, one gets calcium from certain types of salad too. But I do believe that it is not good to drink milk within 3 hours of eating anything with meat in it. It is supposed to eat away at the stomache lining. Plus I am a messianic jew so I live kosher now

But I just found out that powdered sugars like milk-sugar, grape-sugar and soda-sugar and possibly in pasta... is stored directly as fat because it can not be metabolized by any of the cells in the body except for the liver, so that WILL explain my unexplainable obesity from three meals a day. Will cut all those to a bare minimum, and cut down on my fat intake a little too, I eat smoked salmon every day and that too has a lot of sugar in it, but i think it's the right kind of sugar. Anyway I will cut it down and start walking three hours a day. Have started, tomorrow is another walking day.
Just kicked fluoride too, man I had to go to a pharmacy and have the clerk stare weirdly at me in order to get a hold of toothpaste without triclosan and fluoride in it. Well, see you later people.

[edit on 5-4-2008 by Rocambole]