faith + 1 [question for bible beleivers]

Originally posted by Rigel


But still, your Bible view is pointless. "When the wise man shows the moon, the fool watch the finger...".

"It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all of that heavenly glory." - Bruce Lee

reply to post by Drzava


COOL!!! I am a former atheist/self-proclaimed satanist who used to be a former christian until I noticed that the "Christians (follower of the example of Christ...)" have more in common with the common worldlings than the common worldlings have with themselves!

But God had other ideas, and now I am happy in the knowledge that the greatest error that I have made in my recent history, was to let go of God and His Son Jesus/Yeshua (pick one, their the same). And the best gift my parents gave me, was to keep on praying for me until I came to my senses and went back to my Father. Not the Main Bachelor in Rome, he merely owns the world's greatest business plan. I'm talking about returning to my Heavenly Father God.

If you had the Holy Ghost and has experienced His power before you left, it's sad, for then you truly have no forgiveness left. If not, your relationship with God most probably was merely based on what you have heard. Unless you were an RCC member, in which case you never left Christianity at all, but merely exchanged one fallacy for another.

satan loves you to Death - it would hate to see you enter Eternal Life. And atheism has noting to hold onto. I believe in the 6000 years and the Great Flood and that Jerusalem shall be war until the end (as it was told to Daniel). If you need one proof of a Biblical prophecy that is true...

Originally posted by Gorman91
I'm gong with madness on this one. (Holy crap, me agreeing with him?)

Earth is billions of years old, Humans millions. The Bible didn't even use the Roman calendar (no Romans around in 6000 BC, Der!) They used something else.

Riddle me this. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, then why does Egyptian history go back to 10,000. Why are there Mexican crystals 100,000 years old. Why are there fossils in caves, completely sealed off and un effected by outside carbon, with Carbon dates millions of years old?

Exactly.

[edit on 29-11-2007 by Gorman91]

Riddle me that : How accurate is a test that proves a mammoths' thigh is 20000 years older than its body...?

Precisely.

And of course, this page really tickled me.

www.angelfire.com...

reply to post by Rigel


special pleading...

all these arguments for biblical validity seem to rest on logical fallacies.

reply to post by thehumbleone


it's so odd that you'd quote an atheist there........
just had to bring that up

Rigel. You think that the original Jews of the Original Tribes made a complex complete calendar that was any way near accurate? They were farmers. It wasn't until eons later that the Nation of Israel made their calender.

reply to post by J.Smit


Where is this mammoth. And oh yea, then why is it that 99% of all other dinosaurs are so old dated? If you found a few dinos out of the millions of others that are young, you are suppose to trust it?

And, if you have forgotten, how exactly could altered carbon make it older? Unless someone or something came to the fossil and ejected tons of carbon into it, I'm not exactly sure how something would read older naturally. Only younger.

I have always looked at the diversity of life on this planet and the wonders of the universe as proof of Gods existence. It boggles my mind to think that some people really think we ALL came from a pond of goop.

Originally posted by JadePhoenix
I have always looked at the diversity of life on this planet and the wonders of the universe as proof of Gods existence. It boggles my mind to think that some people really think we ALL came from a pond of goop.

Precisely.

Originally posted by Gorman91

Originally posted by JadePhoenix
I have always looked at the diversity of life on this planet and the wonders of the universe as proof of Gods existence. It boggles my mind to think that some people really think we ALL came from a pond of goop.

Precisely.

yes, precisely why this is all ignorance...

it's not proof, in no way is it proof.

we have alternative, logical, scientific answer.

it boggles my mind to think that some people don't even bother to take the time to look at the evidence.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Yet,
It boggles my mind even more, to see that science has yet to reach a conclusive fact on what the Universe is ......all science has given us in last hundred of years or so,is the 'big bang' theorie, revised over and over again and again!
God has not changed!
Science, however, is forever changing .......the Universe is forever expanding.

helen

Originally posted by helen670
Yet,
It boggles my mind even more, to see that science has yet to reach a conclusive fact on what the Universe is ......all science has given us in last hundred of years or so,is the 'big bang' theorie, revised over and over again and again!

were you aware that a priest came up with the big bang theory?

and here's the thing, science isn't read to make a conclusion when it isn't sure... unlike religion, which makes conclusions when it has no idea.

God has not changed!

i beg to differ... how come there are some 4000 deities cropping up in human history?

god has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller as our knowledge has grown.
your god is a little god.

Science, however, is forever changing .......the Universe is forever expanding.

and that's it's virtue, it knows when it's wrong instead of being stubborn

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and here's the thing, science isn't read to make a conclusion when it isn't sure... unlike religion, which makes conclusions when it has no idea.

I'm assuming you've not read too many scientific papers if you really believe this.

Even the scientific method starts with a conclusion that is then tested. In a pure form, it works, but unfortunately, individuals are proud, arrogant, and fragile. Just as Einstein refused to accept any data supporting Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, so too do many scientists feel personally offended and snubbed if their conclusions are questioned, even if it's by data.

your god is a little god.

Zing?

reply to post by junglejake


jj, scientists don't start with a conclusion, they start with a hypothesis. there are many scientific studies that end without a conclusions (such studies are never published)

science is something that grows and is shaped by new evidence, it depends on the facts. it doesn't seek to change the facts to fit the theories.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Raw science doesn't, but scientists do.

I consider a hypothesis a conclusion trying to be validated, but, ultimately, shouldn't be held as true.

Also, some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come from those scientists humble enough to have started with a conclusion, attempted to validate it, were shown it was completely different than what they expected and that the true conclusion was remarkable. Papers in that vein do exist and have been published, and have changed the face of science.

reply to post by junglejake


see, now you're making a claim against scientists that you can't back because you're assuming something about how they think.

Maddness, your right that science will cure all of man's problems. But it's simply that all your evidences and all your long list of poorly written excuses will never change what the vast majority of the world already thinks. Why do you bother?

And I have looked at the other side. I've considered it, and I know my life would be better without God. But the things that have happened in my life simply makes it that I will never doubt him any longer. There was a time that I would claim that maybe God is real, maybe not. But after several deaths in my family and the after effects, combined with freaking weired dreams, I will never doubt any more. It is this fact that makes belief in God a one way street. There will always be events that prove people's faiths, or change them. Atheists will sit on their keyboard all day making long lists of things why God doesn't exist, but others who have had events in their life will change. That's the way it is.


And madness, you still have yet to prove to me HOW I'm ignorant. You have your ends, but no means. You've stated nothing but long lists of things that religion has caused, but nothing that shows how my theology (Christian-Universalist) is making me dumb. I believe most everything science states, but you still call me ignorant. I beg you to tell me the simple reasoning of HOW. What is it about me that you see that makes me any more different in intelligence then you.

[edit on 5-12-2007 by Gorman91]

[edit on 5-12-2007 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by junglejake

 

see, now you're making a claim against scientists that you can't back because you're assuming something about how they think.

Umm,
So, you didn't know that J.J, was a Professor in a science, did you?

Well,J.J got you there!!!



Whether a scientist or professor or a priest founded the 'Big Bang' theory don't matter, because as people we all make mistakes.!
But the Word of God has not changed....people may have, but God has not!
Our thinking and logic can/and does change from day to day...
You see, the Word of God has not changed......it is as it is written.
Although many have altered the Original Bible to fit in todays 'modern' world,it still has not altered the message that it transmits.

helen

Originally posted by helen670
Umm,
So, you didn't know that J.J, was a Professor in a science, did you?
Well,J.J got you there!!!

...JJ was talking about others, not himself.
i was saying that JJ is pretending to know what others think.

Whether a scientist or professor or a priest founded the 'Big Bang' theory don't matter, because as people we all make mistakes.!

...that's not a refutation of the big bang theory.

But the Word of God has not changed....people may have, but God has not!
Our thinking and logic can/and does change from day to day...

you're right, god and the bible haven't changed, they're just as much myth as they ever were

You see, the Word of God has not changed......it is as it is written.
Although many have altered the Original Bible to fit in todays 'modern' world,it still has not altered the message that it transmits.

and IT'S STILL A MYTH.

still no response maddness?